Combat Logging, an academic question

[Ziggy Stardust]

First off, a disclaimer. Personally I feel combat logging is a form of unsportsmanlike behaviour. But what I consider good or bad behaviour is completely irrelevant. Second, I'm talking about the combat log, not the menu log. Third, I have never combat logged (or menu logged in battle. I did menu log when my ship was slowly heating up due to a bug).

It has always seemed a little strange to me how Frontier is able to be an arbiter on the way I use my windows or pc. If I use windows task kill, I am not using Frontier's product, I am using Microsoft's product. If Microsoft had a rule: you shall not use task kill on Elite Dangerous, then I would understand how a task kill combat log was breaking any rules. The same with using my hardware to end the game or lose connection. If I push the off switch on my pc for 4 seconds, that's my call. I bought that pc, and it included an on/off switch which is 100% mine. How I operate this switch is up to me, not Frontier. If I pull my internet cable from my magic place in the wall that's my business. Should have nothing to do with Frontier.

So, here's the academic question. I'm sure there's a load of legality stuff involved I am clueless about. So, can anyone explain to me how Frontier is able to create rules that involve how I manage my PC or Microsoft's product?

 

[Jukelo]

It has always seemed a little strange to me how Frontier is able to be an arbiter on the way I use my windows or pc. If I use windows task kill, I am not using Frontier's product

They don't arbiter how you use your PC, they police how you are allowed to interact with their software. Their policy is that if you are in a danger situation you are supposed to quit the game only after a 15s wait.

 

[Theodrid]

"Well, uhhh, LULZ, you forumdad whinger coward, you see, it's all pretend doesn't matter space pixels until said pretend doesn't matter space pixels vanish and don't 'plody for me, then they is the mostest important pixels on Earth. Secondly, stop hiding, your mode must be removed or at least you shouldn't be able to do anything in said mode, it's, ummmm, TROLL, it's like the BGS, it doesn't matter one jot but if a thread mentions it it matters so much it hurts that you can do stuff on it. So in short...<blows raspberry>....it don't matters what you 'finks, WE ARE GOD".

 

[lokvette]

"Well, uhhh, LULZ, you forumdad whinger coward, you see, it's all pretend doesn't matter space pixels until said pretend doesn't matter space pixels vanish and don't 'plody for me, then they is the mostest important pixels on Earth. Secondly, stop hiding, your mode must be removed or at least you shouldn't be able to do anything in said mode, it's, ummmm, TROLL, it's like the BGS, it doesn't matter one jot but if a thread mentions it it matters so much it hurts that you can do stuff on it. So in short...<blows raspberry>....it don't matters what you 'finks, WE ARE GOD".

Lol that brought a ray of sunshine to what is a very overcast and grey day.

As for the OP, it's like when people argue the toss about who actually owns the copy of ED I play, to me it's mine but apparently its FD's.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They don't arbiter how you use your PC, they police how you are allowed to interact with their software.

Can they make me spent time on their software when I don't want to and decide not to through means which are not theirs?

 

[Jukelo]

Can they make me spent time on their software when I don't want to and decide not to through means which are not theirs?

Nobody's talking about forcing you to do anything. But failing to use their software in the way they consider proper (waiting the 15s) can affect the agreement you have with them which gives you access to the game and its contents.

 

[PiLhEaD]

"Well, uhhh, LULZ.....

This is probably one of the most thoughtful, analytical and incisive summaries I've read for a while. Have a wee dram o rep.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Can they make me spent time on their software when I don't want to and decide not to through means which are not theirs?

No they can't, however they may punish you should you constantly decide that you don't want to spend time on their software during combat and pull the plug. I'm sure you already know this though.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

No they can't, however they may punish you should you constantly decide that you don't want to spend time on their software during combat and pull the plug. I'm sure you already know this though.

Look, I know about the ruling wrt combat logging.

Is there a part in their EULA that covers this?

 

[furrycat]

Think of online games as country clubs. If you have an account on an online game you have a membership to the country club. And that means you play by their rules.

Smashing your golf club on the ground after playing a bad shot will not attract the attention of the police but you may find the club secretary waiting for you at the clubhouse to have a few words.

Granted, I would have a few bons mots for the secretary if he made me park my car for fifteen seconds at the gates before being allowed to drive away from the club grounds to attend an emergency. Even then I expect the membership committee would remind me that at the Lavecon annual dinner and awards night they had publically acknowledged the inconvenience so caused and pledged to install an automatic gate.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

In effect Frontier's rule is: we can't control how you use windows or your hardware, but if it means that the 15 seconds are bypassed, we can control your access the next time you log in?

Hmm, still doesn't sit well with me.

edit 1: Look ma! Wombat logging!

edit 2: Question answered, mods close this thread or I'll post another picture.

 

[TheSynopticVision]

Think of online games as country clubs. If you have an account on an online game you have a membership to the country club. And that means you play by their rules.

Smashing your golf club on the ground after playing a bad shot will not attract the attention of the police but you may find the club secretary waiting for you at the clubhouse to have a few words.

Granted, I would have a few bons mots for the secretary if he made me park my car for fifteen seconds at the gates before being allowed to drive away from the club grounds to attend an emergency. Even then I expect the membership committee would remind me that at the Lavecon annual dinner and awards night they had publically acknowledged the inconvenience so caused and pledged to install an automatic gate.

Incidentally (while here we all agree that CLogging is bad, should never be done, and should be somehow punished), this is why CLogging is not cheating.

If at a poker game I hide a few aces up my sleeve, and win thanks to them, I am cheating.
If at a poker game, when I see that I can't possibly win a hand, I stand up, flip and smash the table, and walk away from the room I am a sore loser and a child, but I am not a cheater.

 

[SMcA]

Where in the EULA does it say that you cannot immediately disconnect from the game?
I note that in the EULA it reads:


4.4 You may not use the Game or any Online Features in a manner that could damage, disable, impair, overburden or compromise our systems or security or interfere with the experience of other users of the Game or any Online Feature.



Does that mean other players should not interfere with me by attacking me?


7.3.1 The Game and/or Online Features may allow communications between users by means including but not limited to text and voice. When using such features you must use common sense and good manners, your behaviour, conduct and communications must be considerate to other users and you must not be directly or indirectly offensive, threatening, harassing or bullying to others or violate any applicable laws including but not limited to anti-discrimination legislation based on race, ethnicity, religion, gender or sexual orientation.


Is pirating not a case of harassing and or bullying?

 

[Khelder]

Incidentally (while here we all agree that CLogging is bad, should never be done, and should be somehow punished), this is why CLogging is not cheating.

If at a poker game I hide a few aces up my sleeve, and win thanks to them, I am cheating.
If at a poker game, when I see that I can't possibly win a hand, I stand up, flip and smash the table, and walk away from the room I am a sore loser and a child, but I am not a cheater.

I disagree with your first point (CL is bad and should never be done). FD disagrees with your second (it's cheating).

 

[Sir.Tj]

Closed as req.