Combat logging, reasons why its happening and solution

[Karlos Ploryman]

Hello commanders,

the forum gets overheated whenever a thread regarding combat logging appears.

Real life happens, there are situations, when you simply must quit & go... Yes, it can happen even during combat situation. People got used to abuse it - combat log.

FD gave us a 15 seconds timer, which is now more than sufficient, because it takes a lot less time to blow up traders ship with modded weapons.



I have read the "CEIL" thread (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/284757-Combat-logging-experiment-in-Cail-Results) and many voiced their understanding, why those poor defenseless traders combat logged out of the game.



Simple solution to this mess is this:
Deploying hardpoints is now way too fast. It should take 3x-5x times longer... It would allow the trader at least go through FSD cooldown without taking damage from the attacker.

If its "too harsh" to generalize that long time for hardpoint deployment, this could affect only the ship, which has initiated the interdiction (and add to the lore respectively - e.g. interdictor overheats the ships surface, so it is not safe to deploy hardpoints to prevent damage or something like this to make it believable and consistent)


I think that this would give traders a little more breathing space and a chance to escape psychopath roleplaying commanders... People might wanna try more to escape instead of loging off...



Please don`t burn me alive, but I would like to hear your opinions

Karlos

 

[Alex Brentnall]

Would be final nail in piracys coffin tbh.

Also no matter how many advantages the safety of logging is 100%. I think if they log they will always log..
Hiwake is safe enough in most cases but people still log.
Personally it baffles me the people go into open in the first place. May as well go solo as they are still cheating by logging but dont ruin other peoples games...

Best way would be to operate a ruthless anti cheat system like overwatch. Since the 2 high profile banwaves thats been almost 100% empty of cheaters as they dont want to spend the cash.
Fdev dont need to be quite as harsh but weeklong shadowbans plus threatening emails will do most of the work followed by longer shadowbans or perma banning. Message would quickly spread around as with overwatch.

 

[Ian Skippy]

Hello commanders,

the forum gets overheated whenever a thread regarding combat logging appears.

Real life happens, there are situations, when you simply must quit & go... Yes, it can happen even during combat situation. People got used to abuse it - combat log.

FD gave us a 15 seconds timer, which is now more than sufficient, because it takes a lot less time to blow up traders ship with modded weapons.



I have read the "CEIL" thread (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/284757-Combat-logging-experiment-in-Cail-Results) and many voiced their understanding, why those poor defenseless traders combat logged out of the game.



Simple solution to this mess is this:
Deploying hardpoints is now way too fast. It should take 3x-5x times longer... It would allow the trader at least go through FSD cooldown without taking damage from the attacker.

If its "too harsh" to generalize that long time for hardpoint deployment, this could affect only the ship, which has initiated the interdiction (and add to the lore respectively - e.g. interdictor overheats the ships surface, so it is not safe to deploy hardpoints to prevent damage or something like this to make it believable and consistent)


I think that this would give traders a little more breathing space and a chance to escape psychopath roleplaying commanders... People might wanna try more to escape instead of loging off...



Please don`t burn me alive, but I would like to hear your opinions

Karlos

If you combat log you cheat, excuses are for wimps. If something RL happens you pay insurance. If that happens time after time ED might not work for you, just like you can't play poker and leave the table for hours time after time.

Really, the number of adults defending cheating in a computer game is depressing.

 

[Na'Qan]

I ask cmdrs to combat log but most don't comply.

[video=youtube_share;WErMYZBvP_E]https://youtu.be/WErMYZBvP_E[/video]

 

[Oogie Boogie]

Honestly I think that Elite Dangerous is played by the majority of PvE players and >35 age. And as most of the time you can trade, explore and have fun with NPC's in open mode without anything bad is happening. But sometime some bad and vicious PvP player will cross your game path and you die so quickly that it is feels so unfair. But this is a part of the open game play. And currently the combad logging is just totally accepted when you fight NPC's but of course also real players.

 

[Karlos Ploryman]

If you combat log you cheat, excuses are for wimps. If something RL happens you pay insurance. If that happens time after time ED might not work for you, just like you can't play poker and leave the table for hours time after time.

Really, the number of adults defending cheating in a computer game is depressing.

I am in no way attempting to defend cheating. Did my proposal sound that way?

 

[Straha Yeagar]

From a purely objective and non-emotional stand point...how does combat logging materially affect another persons game? I do understand how it could affect piracy...missing out on a few tonnes of cargo, but in most of the threads that pop up around here, it doesn't really seem like the issue is missed cargo, rather missing out on the satisfaction of watching another players ship blow up.

There are no experience points, no levels, no ladders, no perks or anything to be gained beyond simple satisfaction in blowing another player up. For some, that satisfaction is one of their primary purposes of playing...the problem is, that satisfaction comes at the misery of others, and presumably, those who combat log don't want to experience the misery of being blown up. Those who are fine with, and accept the entire experience, part and parcel, don't combat log.

When someone combat logs, the other player can most certainly put a tally in their win column, with all the bonus' and advantages it gives them.

 

[Karlos Ploryman]

From a purely objective and non-emotional stand point...how does combat logging materially affect another persons game? I do understand how it could affect piracy...missing out on a few tonnes of cargo, but in most of the threads that pop up around here, it doesn't really seem like the issue is missed cargo, rather missing out on the satisfaction of watching another players ship blow up.

There are no experience points, no levels, no ladders, no perks or anything to be gained beyond simple satisfaction in blowing another player up. For some, that satisfaction is one of their primary purposes of playing...the problem is, that satisfaction comes at the misery of others, and presumably, those who combat log don't want to experience the misery of being blown up. Those who are fine with, and accept the entire experience, part and parcel, don't combat log.

When someone combat logs, the other player can most certainly put a tally in their win column, with all the bonus' and advantages it gives them.

Hahaha if this is the griefers main goal - watch the ship explode, then let FD make the ships stay in the instance after logout and let griefer watch it blow... But with no rebuy for the trader

 

[Deadspin]

If you combat log you cheat, excuses are for wimps. If something RL happens you pay insurance. If that happens time after time ED might not work for you, just like you can't play poker and leave the table for hours time after time.

Really, the number of adults defending cheating in a computer game is depressing.

You can't be serious?

You would condemn players with things going on in real life and have them not play the game if they can't stay logged in?

Considering the older audience of this game I think it's safe to assume that some, maybe most of us, have children. I do, I have two of them, 3 and 4. Things happen fast in a house with children that young. If I'm in super cruise and my 4 year old jumps off of the couch 10 feet away and busts her nose face first into the wall, guess what I'm doing? Alt-F4'ing the game and going to help my child.

Poker is for real money. ED is for fun in your leisure time. If you take the game that seriously maybe it's time you took a step back and reevaluated your life.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Hahaha if this is the griefers main goal - watch the ship explode, then let FD make the ships stay in the instance after logout and let griefer watch it blow... But with no rebuy for the trader

You know...that's not a half bad suggestion.

 

[Na'Qan]

From a purely objective and non-emotional stand point...how does combat logging materially affect another persons game? I do understand how it could affect piracy...missing out on a few tonnes of cargo, but in most of the threads that pop up around here, it doesn't really seem like the issue is missed cargo, rather missing out on the satisfaction of watching another players ship blow up.

There are no experience points, no levels, no ladders, no perks or anything to be gained beyond simple satisfaction in blowing another player up. For some, that satisfaction is one of their primary purposes of playing...the problem is, that satisfaction comes at the misery of others, and presumably, those who combat log don't want to experience the misery of being blown up. Those who are fine with, and accept the entire experience, part and parcel, don't combat log.

When someone combat logs, the other player can most certainly put a tally in their win column, with all the bonus' and advantages it gives them.

what if someone attacks you and some how you managed to actually fend them off. Kick their butts. Knock out thier drives then they combat log. Wouldn't that ruin your experience or is your goal is to send them back to main menu as a defender who fought back?

 

[Gut Rumble]

If you combat log you cheat, excuses are for wimps. If something RL happens you pay insurance. If that happens time after time ED might not work for you, just like you can't play poker and leave the table for hours time after time.

Really, the number of adults defending cheating in a computer game is depressing.

.
I don't cheat sir ,I role play the same as the " Pirates do , I either roleplay that i'm a master magician and can make my ship vanish at will ,or i'm sucked into another dimention.
.
Funny how Frontier listen to the players about killing "ai too soft" "ai too hard" ,but MOST players want an option to be PVE only ,something on start menu , or make a smaller place the size of the bubble where players that PVP can go and blow people up.
And before I get moaned at for using the word " Most" ,I bet if you counted ALL the pirates or players that want PVP ,I bet the players in Mobius alone could wipe the floor with that number not to mention players not in Mobius that don't like PVP either ,
But I guess majority and democracy does NOT exist in this game.
So I for one will use my magical role play when ever needed ............Enjoy shooting at shadows

 

[SheepDip82]

I believe that an effective and helpful crime & punishment system (for crimes) would make the whole situation much better.

And until there's some significant punitive impact for both combat logging AND murder - I doubt anyone will change their position on the matter.

I really wish FD would address it.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

what if someone attacks you and some how you managed to actually fend them off. Kick their butts. Knock out thier drives then they combat log. Wouldn't that ruin your experience or is your goal is to send them back to main menu as a defender who fought back?

Funny you lay out that scenario...

I was running a boom data delivery mission in my combat Viper MKIV, kept getting interdicted and shot at by a Dangerous CMDR in a Cutter. I was ranked Mostly Harmless because I had FDev reset my combat rank for me after 2.1 dropped, so the CMDR was likely looking for easy prey. Previously, I was ranked Deadly. After about the 37th interdiction that I submitted to and ran from, I decided to turn and fight. He combat logged on me after I got him down to about 50% hull. I just laughed to myself and put another tally in the win column.

 

[GJ51]

Would be final nail in piracys coffin tbh.

Also no matter how many advantages the safety of logging is 100%. I think if they log they will always log..
Hiwake is safe enough in most cases but people still log.
Personally it baffles me the people go into open in the first place. May as well go solo as they are still cheating by logging but dont ruin other peoples games...

Best way would be to operate a ruthless anti cheat system like overwatch. Since the 2 high profile banwaves thats been almost 100% empty of cheaters as they dont want to spend the cash.
Fdev dont need to be quite as harsh but weeklong shadowbans plus threatening emails will do most of the work followed by longer shadowbans or perma banning. Message would quickly spread around as with overwatch.

+1 Rep

Instead you hear more about repeat loggers that suffer no consequences.

I don't think FD even cares about the issue.

Actions speak louder...

 

[Iain L]

what if someone attacks you and some how you managed to actually fend them off. Kick their butts. Knock out thier drives then they combat log. Wouldn't that ruin your experience or is your goal is to send them back to main menu as a defender who fought back?

Just as with any NPC who interdicts me, I'd have two goals. Primarily to safely get on the move again, with a secondary bonus of picking up some bounty credits. So while I'd be slightly disappointed, no more so than when an NPC pirate manages to high-wake out before I finish them.

 

[GluttonyFang]

Hello commanders,

the forum gets overheated whenever a thread regarding combat logging appears.

Real life happens, there are situations, when you simply must quit & go... Yes, it can happen even during combat situation. People got used to abuse it - combat log.

FD gave us a 15 seconds timer, which is now more than sufficient, because it takes a lot less time to blow up traders ship with modded weapons.



I have read the "CEIL" thread (https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/284757-Combat-logging-experiment-in-Cail-Results) and many voiced their understanding, why those poor defenseless traders combat logged out of the game.



Simple solution to this mess is this:
Deploying hardpoints is now way too fast. It should take 3x-5x times longer... It would allow the trader at least go through FSD cooldown without taking damage from the attacker.

If its "too harsh" to generalize that long time for hardpoint deployment, this could affect only the ship, which has initiated the interdiction (and add to the lore respectively - e.g. interdictor overheats the ships surface, so it is not safe to deploy hardpoints to prevent damage or something like this to make it believable and consistent)


I think that this would give traders a little more breathing space and a chance to escape psychopath roleplaying commanders... People might wanna try more to escape instead of loging off...



Please don`t burn me alive, but I would like to hear your opinions

Karlos

Hah...

Edit:

*When you know that the OP appears trying to help but possibly accidentally screw over a play style you enjoy to an extreme, that feeeeeel*

 

[Lateralus]

FD gave us a 15 seconds timer, which is now more than sufficient, because it takes a lot less time to blow up traders ship with modded weapons.

15 seconds is a very short amount of time when you're trying to disable their thrusters so you can pirate them (well it would be if piracy wasn't borked).

2 Changes are needed;

#1 - If you're trying to logout via the menu, the count-down should reset every time you take weapons-fire
#2 - Other players in the instance should be notified that you are exiting the game (in the comms panel with the other log-on/log-off notifications would be good)

 

[GluttonyFang]

15 seconds is a very short amount of time when you're trying to disable their thrusters so you can pirate them (well it would be if piracy wasn't borked).

2 Changes are needed;

#1 - If you're trying to logout via the menu, the count-down should reset every time you take weapons-fire
#2 - Other players in the instance should be notified that you are exiting the game (in the comms panel with the other log-on/log-off notifications would be good)

Cool down needs to be extended to at least 30-45, since there is no time for piracy in 15 seconds.

It should also let players press the exit button right away then wait for the count down and automatically close the program so emergency uses can be prompt.

 

[Straha Yeagar]

Perhaps adding a "Submit" threshold...an option in the right panel along with all the other options that a player can set...allowing them to set a damage threshold they agree to from PvP...shields down, 50% hull, 20% hull etc, after which point additional damage will not register.