Combat without Hotas

[NCFCpaul]

I play the game with mouse and keyboard. I find combat very hard. I can get to a certain level, but I look at some of the guys on YouTube- I know they are good, but also that i couldn't get close to that. I read a post by Iron Duke saying he was going to try exploring because his Hotas had broken and combat was now too hard. I noted a video from Vindicator Jones saying if you try combat with mouse and keyboard you better be a jedi or something.

The point being, is combat at higher levels realistic for people without using Hotas, or can it be done? Am I just not very good at it?

 

[the100thmonkey]

Some of the best PvP players fly with a keyboard and mouse.

The mouse is a pointing device and is since it's used with fingertip control, whereas a joystick is used with the wrist and elbow, I would suggest that it's possible to get a higher degree of control out of a mouse.

Homunculi images show just how much more processing power is dedicated to the fingers than the wrist or elbow:

.

With that said, there are some excellent pilots who use a HOTAS. I suspect that rather than you just being inherently bad at fighting in this game, you're missing some important part of the practice.

!. Do you put the throttle at 50% to maximise your turns?
2. Do you use boost properly in conjunction with directional thrusters to control your distance from your target?
3. Do you juggle pips properly? 4 pips to shields when taking fire!
4. have you mapped yaw to the mouse X axis and roll to the keyboard?
5. Are you getting jumped by multiple NPCs when running missions, or is this in RES combat?

 

[NCFCpaul]

1) yes, keeping it in the blue i got
2) not really, boost turns don't figure so highly, although I do use FA off
3) pips I'm ok at, I had an FDL prior to 2.1 and got quite good at that
4) nope! Never even thought of that!
5) I get jumped sometimes but I tend to quite easily beat the interdiction. I go to Res sites for some fun and a change of scenery. Combat isn't usually a big part of my game, but it's fun once in a while

 

[shreddog]

In addition to roll, I would configure keys for pitch up/down also, for those hard turns. Combined with mouse pitch and yaw to fine tune your aim.

But I really would recommend a joystick or hotas. Your enjoyment of the game will increase allot.
I played with keyb mouse for a long time before deciding to try my old Cyborg Evo stick, and boy what a difference.

 

[NCFCpaul]

Many thanks Shreddog, I'll give your advice a go. For my set up at home a joystick isn't going to be possible, but keybindings definitely need investigating

 

[goemon]

after starting with a hotas, i fly with a (Pc-xbox) pad + kb since many month, originally for flightassist off sessions, and for travelling. currently looking into a num-pad for faoff only.

15) I get jumped sometimes but I tend to quite easily beat the interdiction. I go to Res sites for some fun and a change of scenery. Combat isn't usually a big part of my game, but it's fun once in a while

generally that's probably the main thing. as somebody who got very late into combat in this game, and has not played that kind of games for almost 20 years before E: D, i can tell you you'll gain more from experience/training, than from any controlling device. since i spend 2 month on combat some time ago, to get combat (and triple) elite, i made another huge step. i'm finally nearby as effective with railguns as with gimbal weapons, and i can take my DBS and courier to haz res, and only have to leave for rearming. since reaching the rank, i'm back to doing combat rarely, and i already can see my skills dwindling

 

[Hooplah]

...I played with keyb mouse for a long time before deciding to try my old Cyborg Evo stick, and boy what a difference.

The Evo's are cheap on eBay! They are also symmetrical and can be setup perfectly for left or right handed game play. Before going HOTAS I used one with a Logitech G13 Gamepad which is more than enough for dialing in precision flight. Even without the Evo the G13 used with mouse and keyboard puts all the keyboard controls in one local position plus has an analog stick for thrusters. The expensive HOTAS basically added more switches and buttons to bind more ED controls...more of a luxury than an improvement. Anyway some more ideas to consider.

 

[Duane Dibbley]

I started with a KB&M & as I was far more effective with fixed weapons than I am with my Hotas X or my sadly defunct Logitech 3D Pro (T16000 FCS ordered & I hope this is as good as people say ). Hotas has the advantage in the fun factor, not ease of use or precision ie you actually feel like you are piloting a ship because of the hardware, as opposed to doing a PowerPoint presentation.

Things change a bit for players with top quality Hotas's..I've used a Warthog on flight simulators & the precision/quality is just amazing! A massive advantage in PvP - almost P2W!

 

[Aris_]

Elite is not a flight simulator so there is no need to energy manage maneuvers only to turn and point your nose in the direction you want to either shoot or boost so k/m is much better since gives more precision .

If you needed to position yourself in six o clock and not be able to boost turn rotational then joystick will be the way to go , the only adv joystick has is the freedom of multi axis mapping for elaborate maneuvering which is very difficult to use against a well trained pvp k/m faoff player.

 

[Iain M Norman]

I've got a HOTAS, never use it. I use a DS4 and keyboard perfectly happily.

 

[Kyennamo]

I suggest trying an XB1 elite controller or Elite controller type clone(much cheaper).

Using a controller with the paddles, it is possible to have full directional freedom on par with a hotas (if you have the correct bindings).

I love my hotas but its sort of inconvenient to play the game with so i only use it in VR. When playing on the monitor or TV i use the XB1 elite controller. I promise you, if you set it up correctly, your controller will be on par with a hotas.

Edit: forgot to mention, with the "Wrath Elite controller bindings" i use, you have full directional freedom AND full pip control without ever taking either of your thumbs off the analog sticks during combat (pretty sweet)

 

[CMDR CODY]

My CH Products HOTAS sits in the closet, no need for all that here. Ive been using a Thurstmaster Stick X, and it does everything you need to saddle up, and turn & burn.

Yes no E management is necessary, but throttle control when banking is.

 

[Madrax573]

I use M+K as I travel a lot and I'll be buggered if I"m taking a HOTAS with me!

Make sure you have Yaw to X axis and don't have your mouse too sensitive. If you like a sensitive mouse give yourself a little deadzone so you won't be too twitchy.

I have my keyboard set as
W - Thrust up
S - Thrust down
A/D - Roll
Q/E - Thrust left/right
Space - Thrust forward
L Shift - Thrust back

This I have found to be pretty intuitive for me and allows me full control of my ship. I also use the exact same key bind if I"m going full FA-off. I just switch on relative mouse control for that.

I usually don't have any problems with PIP management but if I'm gearing up for a big combat session I'll fire up voice attack for the pip stuff, normally I don't bother though.

Oh yeah also bind a key to 50% throttle (I use C) as this puts you straight back into the blue zone for maneuvers. And remember if you are using multiple directional thrust inputs your speed will move out of the blue zone so throttle back a tad to keep it there and keep your turn speed up.

 

[Nerwan]

I play the game with mouse and keyboard. I find combat very hard. I can get to a certain level, but I look at some of the guys on YouTube- I know they are good, but also that i couldn't get close to that. I read a post by Iron Duke saying he was going to try exploring because his Hotas had broken and combat was now too hard. I noted a video from Vindicator Jones saying if you try combat with mouse and keyboard you better be a jedi or something.

The point being, is combat at higher levels realistic for people without using Hotas, or can it be done? Am I just not very good at it?

The best PVPers in the whole game are mouse and keyboard users.. Mainly because it's a little easier to aim very precisely with fixed weapons with a mouse than with a Hotas. Especially if trying to aim while circling someone with FA off. Personally I use a HOTAS with a mouse (for occasional aiming reasons). I like the HOTAS and I can aim very well with it, but not with FA off...

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I started off a mouse-and-keyboard player.

I found it awkward at best. Perhaps if there were a 65-button mouse it wouldn't be so bad, but I moved very quickly to HOTAS + G13 gamepad.

1. Do you put the throttle at 50% to maximise your turns? Not always, depends on the ship. Some ships actually handle a bit better with higher throttle.
2. Do you use boost properly in conjunction with directional thrusters to control your distance from your target? I'm known for ramming my targets, boost is a must.
3. Do you juggle pips properly? 4 pips to shields when taking fire! Of course.
4. have you mapped yaw to the mouse X axis and roll to the keyboard? I have nothing mapped to my mouse. I only use it for headlook.
5. Are you getting jumped by multiple NPCs when running missions, or is this in RES combat? Not as often as I'd like. Usually NPC's only jump me one at a time. Most combat I do is High Intensity CZ. There are always multiple enemies.

It has taken me a good bit of effort to get my controls mapped, but I have nearly every single function at my finger-tips, with custom binds set on my G13 for things like Request Docking, Deploy Fighters, Deploy SRV, and a few other custom bindings for various functions.

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Its really just about what you feel most comfortable playing with. In Theory this or this input device might be better but if you ain't feeling it you won't be better with it.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

I use a gamepad for ED. As i don't have a desk to put a hotas on. Lol

I can keep up with some of the better players with a hotas.

However, my old gamepad failed a while back. And i found out, playing ED with a mouse and keyboard, is basically suicide. I had to stop playing until i replaced it. (1 day!!).

Seriously though, if you don't want, or can't have a hotas, grab a cheap Xbox style controller. It'll help no end. And, if it's very similar to a Xbox 360/one controller, it'll have very good default bindings set up. I barely touch the keyboard.

 

[Jukelo]

I'm mostly a KBM user. I have a Hotas X I use when doing some casual flying or when flying something lumbersome which wouldn't benefit much from a mouse's superior precision, but most of the time I stick to the Logi G600 (12 thumb buttons + modifier + regular mouse buttons).

 

[Truesilver]

As others have pointed out, the balance of opinion and usage amongst the most experienced and successful PvP-ers in the game is in favour of KB+M.

As a KB+M user myself, I take comfort from that fact that I believe I share that decision with these current and previous pilots of note:

BreakfastMelon
Pipko
Oddisee (aka Deathgrips)
Nyxi
Hercules4
Skafsgaard
Bangfish

However, there are also many respected PvP pilots who use HOTAS, such as:

PoaArctica (dual stick)
Morbad
Isinona

Finally, there are guys such as Majinvash who ain't no slouches with an Xbox controller!

The upshot is that if you want every advantage in your favour you probably want to stick with KB+M but you can in fact git gud with anything.

Here's a recent manoeuvring and fixed aim demo vid of mine, made with KB+M:


[video=youtube_share;RqeBTqwc-xA]https://youtu.be/RqeBTqwc-xA[/video]


... which I've added to my Guide to Circle-Strafing:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...silver-s-Top-Tips-Beginner-s-Guide-VR-PvP-Vid

 

[thirstyfish]

I feel the need to chime in.

I use KB and mouse. I don't have a gaming mouse, mine is a regular mouse. I find combat is quite doable. Note: I do PvE stuff only a bit different from PvP combat. However, I find I have one major problem with this setup:

Pips management. My pip keys are the arrow keys. My left had is over on WASD to control throttle, yaw, boost, and directional thrusters. My right hand is on my mouse which has both fire keys, wheel for selecting subsystem target, and wheel click for head look (only used on approach to mailslots, otherwise never used). I don't have a spare hand to put on my arrow keys. So I have to have my pips set prior to engaging in combat. I usually go with 4 sys and 2 wep or 3 sys and 3 wep if I am looking to duke it out. If I am trying to run from a pirate, it is either 4 Eng and 2 sys OR 4 sys and 2 Eng (depending on the ship I am flying). I simply don't have any decent way to make my pip controls easier to get to right now. I have considered voice attack, but I don't know how well it works (Siri stupidity has kind of put me off). And I don't really want to deal with a gaming mouse because: A) most of them are corded B) they tend to be big, I prefer a slightly smaller mouse. Can anyone give me any pointers for either voice attack or a good (and not too expensive) gaming mouse that will get the job done?