Combat Zones, Vulture vs. FDL??

AirBear

AirBear
I've been using my Python in CZ's and doing OK, but at 10M credits insurance it's a bit risky. I tried the Vulture and absolutely love the ship!! I haven't been using my Oculus Rift much lately (hard to multi-task on other monitors) but this ship motivated me to put it back on. I have a G1 engineered Power Plant that gives an extra 16% so that makes the ship more usable. Gimbaled Beam Laser and Engineered Multi-Cannon do the job, but larger ships it takes a long time to knock shields down. I've been looking at FDL builds and I have engineered FSD and Thrusters and PowerPlant I can use so it won't be that expensive. Question is how is the FDL compared to the Vulture? I know the FDL won't turn as fast but generally will it do better in CZ's than the Vulture?

Thanks,

AirBear
 

CMDR Harada

CMDR Harada
10 million re-buy ? Expensive ? I ... guess.. <looks at re-buy for 700+million Corvette currently stomping around a CZ>.

The FDL kills quicker then a Vulture. It's a true killing machine. Much as I like the Vulture, the FDL out classes it in a one-on-one fight. That being said, the FDL is HOT. Not in the sense that it's "Cool to own", more in the sense that it runs HOT. Very hot. The builds I tried weren't sustainable for long term combat and depended on ammo to keep the heat down. It was either ammo based builds, or heat sinks which pretty much amounted to the same thing. It works VERY well for the PvPers or gankers who fight one or two ships and then re-dock. But if you want to loiter all day at a Haz-RES or CZ ? Hmmmm.. not so much. You'll spend half your time running back and forth to the station.

For a CZ ? I found a dual laser Vulture worked better. No heat issues, and with some RNGineering to cure the power issues, jump range, and speed issues, it worked very well. Sure, you sacrificed 'killing speed' for 'time on target', but you could stay all day. It worked very well. BUT, being a small ship it couldn't take a beating once the shields were down. So you had to know when to 'leg it' when things got uncomfortable. I spent lots of time at CZs in my Vulture. It worked even better when I figured out how to stay with my group of friendlies.

But even better was my combat Python. More lasers, and I could add a few MCs for the times I needed them : Once the shields on a big target were down or I was engaging a wing and needed to dispatch one quick. It had ammo based weapons, but I could choose when to use them. It was big enough to live thru a few mistakes or a pack of "rail eagles". Good shields. Power to spare for SCBs, SBs, Beam lasers, big screen TV, hot tub, indoor skating rink...Oh, and a frozen yogurt machine. The Python is the "make-it or break-it" ship for most. If you can make it in one of them, you'll be in one of the Big 3 and a billionaire soon. At that point, 10/20 million here or there isn't a big deal.

To sum up :

One on One and BH'ing : FDL is great.
CZ : Vulture is better choice. But even better is a Python.
 

Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Find my FAS a very good balance of big ship power, armor and firepower combined with small ship maneuverability. It's like a super vulture with a bit of engineering. I haven't tried a python yet, or a FDL for that matter, but I understand the FDL has some power issues, and that's what I hated about the vulture, so I haven't bothered since I'm happy with the FAS. Popping AI FDLs has become a habit for me. I'm currently saving for said Python. 160m should do the trick. I won't be trading in the FAS though, I really love it, it's like a ballet dancing wrestler, much better survivability than a Vulture and no real downsides. ;)
 
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CMDR ANCALAGON

C
The FDL does run hot, and I always receive heat warnings while boosting and firing, but....

It never amounted to any real problem after getting power priorities sorted out and some engineering. In fact, I wouldn't have had any issues at all, except that I boost almost constantly while in combat while pouring hot lead and laser fire on target.

I started combat with the Vulture and loved it, but I was always overheating something and always felt like I was weighing big sacrafices in one area to get the performance I wanted. I was somewhat reluctant to get into an FDL because I loved the speed and maneuverability of the Vulture. I was thrilled to discover that the FDL is extreemly fast and maneuvarable and I didn't miss the Vulture at all.

To me, the FDL is the Vulture I loved, but with more fire power, and less overall sacrifices.

I will admit that the CZs can been a challenge to stay in for a long time, especially if you have to deal with multiple hostiles at once.


I also cannot leave this discussion without passing along the other the thing I've learned, which is that the Anaconda is the best tool I've found for most everything, and can stay in a CZ for as long as it takes to run out of ammo synths for the MCs. The FDL earned me the CR for the Annie, and I logged a lot of combat hours in it, and is the only ship that I've not sold.
 

Marklar_

Marklar_
FDLs hit much harder than Vultures, but if insurance cost is an issue for you then I recommend engineering-up your Vulture and using that.
 

yolomcbobbinz

Y
Both are beyond fantastic combat ships, a good fer de lance build will have an insurance of 3.4 or 4.2 million and the fer de lance is mostly a shield tank that can easily out maneuver some of the bigger ships at a cz

vulture can't take too many hits but only ships more maneuverable than it is the eagle and viper mk3


Side note, I'd stay out of cz, they're fun and cool but the capital ships ruin it because theyre broken since they have been able to move I always crash into nothing and it's destroyed my fdl too many times
 

yolomcbobbinz

Y
CMDR ANCALAGON said:
The FDL does run hot, and I always receive heat warnings while boosting and firing, but....
Click to expand...

I've never really have heat issues when not doing much I sit around 40% mines not uber engineered but it only heats up when my 4 rapid fire pulses and rapid multi run for too long but then I just stop for 2 secs and all is good
 

Hossi

Hossi
Well, I actually have both and I have to say... for CZ I always use the conda. The sheer firepower leaves no room for anything else, if you are going for effectivity.
For Haz Res on the other hand (you know, flying trough the asteroids with VR...) thats a hard one. Both are great. If I'm flying for pure fun its the Vulture. Even tough big ships take forever, and if you fluke even once you have to retreat (my Vulture is a pure agility build, minimal armor).
The FDL on the other hand can take a beating and has more firepower. And it has still a great agility. But higher rebuy, so maybe you want to pull out sooner...

So I choose ... both[yesnod]
 

AirBear

AirBear
Funny you should mention the FAS, I just watched a video comparing it to the FDL and ran some spec's on Ed's Shipyard. Surprisingly it turns almost as well as the Vulture and is very slightly better than the FDL. And buying it with military bulkheads is 61M credits cheaper (36M vs. 97M) than buying a FDL with the same bulkheads. Also more slots for shield cells and module boosters. A pair of Tier 3's and another pair of Tier 2's should help knock down shields of bigger ships. Speed is less, but boost is the same as FDL.

I also have a Python with upgraded bulkheads and a full combat loadout. It does OK in the CZ's but my goal is to make credits, not lose them and the repair costs on the Python usually exceeded the combat vouchers. My Anaconda is dry docked right now, I could try it out and probably do OK but I don't want to spend the credits to upgrade the bulkheads until I get my Corvette and see which one I like better. Besides, "yanking and banking" is a lot more fun :D

Thanks for the replies.

Aashenfox said:
Find my FAS a very good balance of big ship power, armor and firepower combined with small ship maneuverability. It's like a super vulture with a bit of engineering. I haven't tried a python yet, or a FDL for that matter, but I understand the FDL has some power issues, and that's what I hated about the vulture, so I haven't bothered since I'm happy with the FAS. Popping AI FDLs has become a habit for me. I'm currently saving for said Python. 160m should do the trick. I won't be trading in the FAS though, I really love it, it's like a ballet dancing wrestler, much better survivability than a Vulture and no real downsides. ;)
Click to expand...
 

Marbat

Marbat
I own both the FDL and the Python and use the Python more often, especially now that I got a couple of good rolls engineering it. My rebuy is over 9 mil now but I think it would take ganging up on me to really hurt me even though my shields still need working on.

The FDL is a nice ship and will agree with what others have said about heat and making station runs. It's a beautiful ship and I need to add some modified stuff to it, it's still kind of new to me.

I tried the vulture before and it didn't really do anything for me though it is a decent craft. I'll be flying the FDL now and then and it will get better with time, I figure.
 
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Xious

Xious
I engineered my Vulture and it holds it's own very well in CZ's.

Next, I did some engineering to my FDL but even with G5 DD's, it still feels like it has lead in it's butt.

Took it back and got the Vulture... life is good.
 

AirBear

AirBear
Just spent some time in a CZ with the FAS. Very impressed, basically a Vulture on steroids. Gimballed weapons, pair of tier 2 beam lasers and pair of tier 3 engineered multi-cannons that run around 25-27dps vs. the standard 18. Very few heat issues. The lasers will overheat after quite a bit of continuous firing but that's to be expected until they're engineered. They cool off very quickly. I stayed quite awhile in the CZ and racked up 15-20 kills with no hull damage. Finally I got sloppy and over stayed my welcome and limped home with 34% hull. Glad I got the military bulkheads. Still made a good profit since the combat vouchers were over 500K, plus mission rewards. I love the bi-weave shields for CZ fighting. They come back so quickly after getting knocked down. Just have to keep a close eye on them. I'm keeping 3 pips in shields and weapons and leaving 0 for engines until I need to chase someone down. Works well and the shields don't go down very often.
I've got power to spare, only using around 80%. May try a laser combo of tier 2 and 3, ditto for Multi Cannons and see how that does. Here's my current build on Ed's Shipyard. I love the way the Elite Dangerous Data Network lets you click the name of your ship and it auto-loads the build into Ed's. Saves a lot of typing, but doesn't show the engineering stats:

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=A0QC,...8g0BLA0Bb61,7go07go0,7T4025S123u122K103w10nE0

AirBear
 

ThriveInDark

T
Both are vaible but fly very differently. I recommend looking at the FDL and FAS for an upgrade to the Vulture. In fact, I've said it many times, the FAS flies like a Super Vulture, but it does have some shield limitations and relies on trading a bit of hull (which it does like an anaconda). The FDL is very, very drifty in flight model where the Vulture/FAS are very tight and responsive so there is that to consider.

If you want to stick with Vulture, consider adding some special effects to your weapons, try 2x Rapid Fire Pulse Lasers with Phasing Sequence, you'll have your targets hull half down before the shields drop.

FAS does well with a wide range of loadouts because of its awesome hardpoint convergence too. One of my favorites was a Gimbal Pulse on Top, Fixed Beam on Bottom center (acts like a laser sight for the rails), and then 2 Imperial Hammers for the mediums, it was crazy fun.
 
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Stealthie

Stealthie
Personally, I like to use my FGS in CZs.

I agree with most of what's already been said.
The Vulture doesn't do as much damage as an FdL but it's cheaper so it's less risky.
The Vulture is fine as long as as you have pretty good situational and tactical awareness so you don't end up close to big enemy ships who've got nothing other than you to occupy them.
Basically, in a Vulture, I try to stay on the edge of the fight, pick a target, dive in, kill it and then move away again.

As has been said, the FdL is a stronger ship so it can take, and dish out, more punishment.
I seem have a habit of getting into tougher fights with the FdL though, getting my shields knocked out and I'll have to jump out sooner.
Not sure if the AIs consider and FdL a bigger threat and target it or whether that's just a result of being more gung-ho.

That's where the GFS has an advantage though.
It's got similar firepower to an FdL, mine is more tanky than my FdL and it has an SLF which is useful for inflicting damage and distracting the enemy ships while I disengage to recharge my shields.
 

AirBear

AirBear
Playing with different loadouts on the FAS. For now I've settled on an all multi-cannon build. Tried beam and burst lasers but they always overheat in CZ's since they're almost constantly firing. I already had G5 Multi Cannons for the Tier 3 slots, tonight I went to see "The Blaster"and also overcharged the Tier 2 MC's up to G5.

Last romp in the CZ I got 25 kills (800k in combat bonds) before leaving due to shield cells and chaff used up. That includes a couple of Corvettes. Not sure I'd run an all MC build other than CZ's where half your targets already have shields down.

The Rift VR combined with Voice Attack is really helpful. I've customized some voice commands to (more or less) target the power plant. Works great on smaller ships, have to say "next module" a bunch of times on bigger ships like a Corvette. Had one of the Corvettes dead in space with zero Power Plant health but still 40% hull left :cool:

Today I unlocked Prismatic Shields and went on a shopping spree. Not sure I like them on the FAS. With all MC's I can put 4 pips in systems and 2 in Weapons. It takes a LOT longer to recover when I lose them. I may switch back to Bi-weave for CZ work and see which does better.
 
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Aashenfox

Aashenfox
Nice! I have 2 large (well rolled efficient) beams, (I can't overheat, no matter what I do, but I do run out of weapons cap) and 2 medium (long range) railguns on mine. but I think I'm going to swap the rails for plasma accelerators soon.

Prismatic shields are a waste on the FAS, it's a hull tank anyway, it has crap shields, don't waste your utility/optional slots on boosters or SCBs either, the shield is only there to absorb their alpha, then you pop chaff. I generally go into CZs with a biweave with a good thermal resist and a weapon focused capacitor. This gives me around 260 shields iirc, but about 2100 integrity without armor engineering (could be more, but a module reinforcement slot is worth having on this ship, the modules are a little exposed, I felt much more robust after I put the module reinforcements in, and had a lot less battle failures too) and a very quick charging shield. With that kind of integrity, you just keep going til you're at about 60% hull. I generally keep two pips to each system, that keeps the biweave up but I run out of weapons sometimes, that's ok, boost out, turn around, come back and it's charged again. :) BAsically, you get more benefit from armor than shield boosts on this boat, imo.
 

HBK

HBK
The FdL blows the Vulture out of the water.

More overall firepower, way more hardpoints, way more shielding, way faster, almost as maneuverable.

The main FdL flaw is the shield gen size which means low regen rates.

Other than that the ship is awesome.

Yeah the ship is drifty and full beam builds will fry it but you can easily run 1k shielding with 50+ resist all AND have a class 4 weapon. What's not to like?

Keep it lightweight, the armor is paper thin but you'll keep the rebuy in the 4 mil range and get to keep its maneuverability.
 
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