Commanders vs NPCs, the campaign for equality.

I like to play solo/group (with some IRL friends), open has no interest for me. I just don't want that kind of interaction (cooperative or hostile) from this game. So I mostly deal with NPCs, unfortunately, we aren't all playing on the same field. Here are the issues I have with them, and how I personally would like it to work out.


  • Commanders typically begin a scan at the scanners maximum range VS NPCs don't begin a scan until they are within 1km.
-I'd like to see NPCs use their scanners the same way we do, based on the maximum capability of their rating. (if they have different scanners then I'd like some of that action)

  • Commander scanners are affected by chaff VS NPC scanners are not.
-I don't care which way this goes, but I'd like it to be consistent. I think it would be really interesting if chaff had an effect dependent on the range of the scanner (per percentage). In other words, chaff is only effective against scanners when the scanner is being used at greater than half (or something) it's maximum range. (would make higher rated scanners more worth the huge power draw)

  • Commanders can target other ships through stations and in docking bays VS NPCs stop scanning once you go through the slot or into the hangar (this is apparently inconsistent at some outposts).
-I would like to see line of effect (and target lock) cease when line of sight (between ships, not from the cockpit) is broken. e.g. broken by asteroids, station and outposts walls, capital ships that are between you and the target, like CQC.

  • Commanders can't see what is in NPC cargo holds in supercruise VS NPCs can see that you have cargo in supercruise.
-I'm not talking about missions, that's fine assuming they got a lead on it, I'm talking about bulk hauling. "That's the ship I want, the one with the big haul." How does he know I have anything, I just picked up a bunch of stuff from the commodities market. I'm not saying I shouldn't be interdicted, but they shouldn't know what I have, and for bulk hauling in non transport ships, it should be very rare.

  • Commanders have limited ammo VS NPCs have unlimited ammo.
-I understand that some of this is for the simplicity of the system, but I'd rather see ships leaving and entering CZ/RES because they are out of ammo or restocked, than them just sit and infinitely spam rail guns. It makes the galaxy fair and adds to the life of it by having an organic flow of participants.

  • Commanders use SCBs intelligently VS NPCs use them extremely ineffectively.
-I still have yet to see an NPC use an SCB early enough that it actually restores his shields before they break. It is better in 2.0 than it was, but they typically use them at the very last moment, rendering them pointless. Have them pop them at ~1 ring left instead of what must be <10% shields, that way they get some benefit out of it and we actually get a more lifelike opponent and burst damage weapons get a little more value compared to cheap, reliable, extremely popular DPM weapons.

  • Commanders will reboot their ships when their power plant is shot out VS NPCs become permanent ducks in the water.
-Seriously, you can shoot out the powerplant and go make lunch and they'll be there waiting when you come back. I'd like to see them go through the reboot process just like any commander would.

  • Commanders run away when they are in a faster ship fighting a big slow ship VS NPCs won't try to leave until it is too late, and then only sometimes.
-This would make the fast combat ships relatively more effective fighters and would actually give the big ships a disadvantage. Most NPCs just try to circle at 3km until you finally blow them up, it prolongs the fight, but does nothing to make combat interesting. (I fly an anaconda and corvette in RES and CZs often, I don't want to hate on big ships, but there should be a cost to doing business in them) It would also make shooting out FSDs and Drives much more important than just the powerplant. If NPC anacondas ran the way players do when they get below 50% hull, we'd have to come up with some more creative solutions to keeping them around for the kill by using more of the tools at our disposal (cannons, PACs, subsystems other than the power plant, faster ships).

  • Commanders can see if a ship is wanted or clean with a basic scan VS NPCs have to wait for thier KWS to finish to notice you are wanted.
-Just more consistency, playing by the same rules. I want being wanted to be a very risky endeavor. Having 10 seconds after the scan starts to scoot through the mailslot when the police should see you are wanted 3 seconds after they target you well beyond KWS range just makes being a criminal really lame. I'd like to feel the need to either come in dangerously fast, or extremely cold and silent.​

  • Commanders can steal kills from one another VS NPCs just can't make a buck bounty hunting.
-I think one of the big advantages of the C4 weapons (limited as they are) is that they are great finishers. I know I can easily put 5-10% of hurt on an NPC anaconda hull and secure the kill with my big cannon or PAC, but I have no need to. I just need to hit it a couple of times within 15 seconds of its death to get all the credit. Either prorate bounty claim by damage done, or treat NPCs just like players, that is, last hit gets the kill. It would certainly require players to be more on the ball in CZs and RES and it would restore much of the value to the C4 guns with such high power draw and slow muzzle velocity.

  • Commanders get a bounty value up to 1 million credits VS NPCs only get bounties as high as 300-400k for assassinations, most in RES or supercruise capping around 200k.
-I'm not sure what the reasoning here is for the bounty cap, likely to do with us getting all the bounties no matter what. I'd rather see a much broader range of bounties on NPCs, particularly I'd like to see Dangerous-Elite NPCs have very high bounties, but be extremely challenging to kill.

  • Commanders can wing up to 4 VS NPCs can wing up to 8.
-Honestly an 8 man wing would be awesome. I'm not sure if the P2P can handle it, but it might be worth a try. That or limit them the way we are limited.

  • Commanders chase/flee using boost VS NPCs don't, they just use boost to evade.
-Kinda makes speed less important, I've outrun and/or caught up to far too many Cobra/Viper IIIs in my Asp/Viper/Ana-slow boat-conda....

If I missed anything, shout out what it is, what you think of any of these, or if you can see a reason why NPCs need to have these differences. (to make them harder is not the issue, these really have nothing to do with difficulty except that many of the differences make things easier for commanders). I didn't mention things that are obviously bugged like NPCs not getting a bounty for firing on a clean commander.
-
You'll also notice that NPCs and silent running is notoriously missing. I've been doing some testing (with video) with a friend comparing the effects of silent running vs the biggest A rated sensors. The results are interesting and not what I expected. Initial observations of an Anaconda with A rated sensors trying to target a DBX floating still in silent running show a need to be within 400m to target them and losing target lock at 500m, while the DBX boosts in silent running target lock is still acquired at ~400m, but doesn't break until ~2km, I am going to test it targeting various other ships in silent running (DBX, Cobra III, AspE and Python; the most popular smugglers) vs my A rated sensors and stitch together some kind of video presentation that will hopefully shed some light on this stealthy mechanic.
-
Again, for me, as a PVE player, the most important thing is for the galaxy to be consistent. I want no disadvantages or advantages compared to the NPCs, otherwise it just screams "GAME!" too much.
 
Last edited:
All pretty sensible. I'd support them all.

NPCs should have the same benefits and handicaps as human players. Level playing field is all we ask for!
 
Here, here!

I got hit by rail guns from a NPC Cobra today and it wasn't even pointing at me - I could see it's underside from about 500m.

Pathetic.
 
NPC scanner range should be a factor of loadout, not rank.

The "That's the one with the big haul...." thing I don't see as the NPC scanning you. That's just a story element generated by the game to indicate that scuttlebutt has been passed along that you are holding cargo.

CZs, unless they have changed have always been last shot gets the kill, cap ships used to kill steal me all the time. I don't see the harm in letting PCs steal NPC kills, gives noobs a chance to make some money. The reverse side of that is if you accidentally shoot a non-wanted NPC and it gets killed in 15s by another NPC, you get the credit for the death and the bounty.
 
NPC scanner range should be a factor of loadout, not rank.

The "That's the one with the big haul...." thing I don't see as the NPC scanning you. That's just a story element generated by the game to indicate that scuttlebutt has been passed along that you are holding cargo.

CZs, unless they have changed have always been last shot gets the kill, cap ships used to kill steal me all the time. I don't see the harm in letting PCs steal NPC kills, gives noobs a chance to make some money. The reverse side of that is if you accidentally shoot a non-wanted NPC and it gets killed in 15s by another NPC, you get the credit for the death and the bounty.

Currently the only thing that can "steal" a kill from a player is a capital ship. I pot shot ships in CZs for 1-2 percent all the time and get the kill credit with the ship behind me getting killed by my allies.

I'm fine with "random" story elements, they are just too frequent when bulk hauling and too specific. If they want to pull me out and say "what are you carrying?" or "have anything nice today?", you know, like a person might to an NPC or person, hoping to find some cargo. Instead it's, that's the cargo I'm after....omniscience is not something players have, it's not something NPCs should have.
 
Agree with most of it but I don't think NPCs can Cargo scan in SC. I once had the 'big haul/ juicy target' spiel when all I was carrying was a couple of limpets.
 
  • Commanders can't see what is in NPC cargo holds in supercruise VS NPCs can see that you have cargo in supercruise.
-I'm not talking about missions, that's fine assuming they got a lead on it, I'm talking about bulk hauling. "That's the ship I want, the one with the big haul." How does he know I have anything, I just picked up a bunch of stuff from the commodities market. I'm not saying I shouldn't be interdicted, but they shouldn't know what I have, and for bulk hauling in non transport ships, it should be very rare.​

Are you sure they know lol

I think it's entirely random... I've been interdicted plenty of times in my Python, with an empty cargo hold. With the usual banter "That's the ship I want..." yadda yadda. Even after accepting the interdiction, the NPC doesn't bother to scan me - just blasts me announcing that they want all my cargo (of which I have none.)
 
I'm fine with "random" story elements, they are just too frequent when bulk hauling and too specific. If they want to pull me out and say "what are you carrying?" or "have anything nice today?", you know, like a person might to an NPC or person, hoping to find some cargo. Instead it's, that's the cargo I'm after....omniscience is not something players have, it's not something NPCs should have.

Can't disagree with that. Those story elements like a lot of the game could do with some refinement.
 
[/INDENT]
Are you sure they know lol

I think it's entirely random... I've been interdicted plenty of times in my Python, with an empty cargo hold. With the usual banter "That's the ship I want..." yadda yadda. Even after accepting the interdiction, the NPC doesn't bother to scan me - just blasts me announcing that they want all my cargo (of which I have none.)

Do you have missions on board to go and get cargo, I've noticed they think you have cargo if you have a mission to go get it, they also think limpets are good stuff...idiots.
 
  • Commanders can steal kills from one another VS NPCs just can't make a buck bounty hunting.
NPCs used to be able to steal kills from commanders, but that mechanic was changed into what we have now, due to many players complaining about kill stealing NPCs.
 
Last edited:
Do you have missions on board to go and get cargo, I've noticed they think you have cargo if you have a mission to go get it, they also think limpets are good stuff...idiots.

Yep it's probably being triggered by a mission state.

I have also mentioned before that NPCs need to be 'smarter'. As you mention above, it would be good if they at least reacted with similar game mechanics as commanders. A little 'memory' of recent actions wouldn't hurt either, rather than endlessly following their game loop until you either blow them up or leave.
 
Last edited:
I absolutely agree with all your well elaborated points and support your request for a level playground for players and NPCs!
 
great list, appreciated!

and i'm very much looking forward to your silent running tests, what you describe is what i thought.

one thing:
a) "NPCs can see that you have cargo in supercruise" - i tink that's more the text interdicting npc's give out. at least i get the quoted text even if i fly around in my vulture without any cargo(racks). it looks, that pirate npc spawn more often if you have cargo... some consistency there would be great, too.
 
Indeed NPC interdicting you doesn't to be dependant of the fact you have a cargo or not. I was interdicted recently and i don't even have a cargo bay...

In fact if yourself cannot scan people while in super cruise, it's consistent that NPC cannot scan you either. It's just the narration they make you think they scanned you.

But if you go to Ressource Extraction Site (RES) to bounty hunt, you'll see they scan you and as i don't even have a cargo bay, they never attack me.

As concerned to NPC getting bounties, i think it's better to stay like we are now and be player friendly.

Many people wants the game to be nice with them and that's why they are not interested in open, PvP...Etc. But i understand you want some challenge.

For now IA needs to play bad or very good in function of their current rank.
 
Back
Top Bottom