I was reading the thread "Why Elite's riddles and story do not work for me". And in amongst the debates about whether FD is doing the right thing with its ongoing cryptic backstory about probes and ruins and signals and whatever else is going on there, I saw a comment which, to be honest, made me despair a bit. While expressing his point of view, a poster used the following phrase:
I don't quote this here in a new thread in order to avoid the poster's attention, but to divorce the comment from the person. Because it's the comment and the attitude behind it that bother me, and it's something common to far more people than just this one poster.
"The immersers", fellow players. "The immersers".
Am I alone in thinking this ridiculous, fatuous tribalism is starting to get old and tired and threadbare?
This game has been deeply factionalised in one sense for as long as I can remember, and to some extent that's umavoidable: because of the way the game was built there was always going to be be friction (to say the least) between PVP and PVE players, and between soloists and those who like the whole Open mode thing. I genuinely believe FD thought this through and tried very hard to create a framework that would suit everyone, and if they failed it was only because they misjudged the dynamic between Solo and Group or Open play in a universe where the effects of all are potentially felt by all.
So that's an aspect of ED where I would expect some 'robust' discussion.
But 'immersers'? Come on.
Again, although I keep quoting this word, it's not specifically to target the person who used it. It's to highlight just how determinedly schismatic we are, and how automatic it seems to have become. It's not enough to just say you don't agree that the game needs more immersiveness. No, we have to invent a new label, because we need a quick and simple way to disparage people who enjoy particular elements of the game that don't hold a particular interest for us.
I'm not pretending this is unique to ED, or even gaming. It's universal, and maybe it's just my tendency towards pessimism and depression (yes, the proper kind) that makes me think it's getting worse - but I don't think it is. This is saturating our culture now, and I for one think it's time we started getting a grip. Before those of a Certain Viewpoint start getting all overheated (you know who you are), no, I'm not asking that we all sit round the fire singing Kum-Ba-Yah. I'm not asking for 'safe spaces', or 'trigger warnings', or 'sensivity', or all those other things you hate. I'm asking for logic, and reason. (Although a degree of sensitivity would serve those ends, but let it be.)
For what it's worth, I'd ask for the same things in real-world politics, too, but that's like asking the sea not to be wet. And I guess that's for other forums than this one.
This is a game. I know that's used as the excuse for many wrongs, but here I'm trying to supply some perspective. And maybe, you might well respond, and perhaps with some good reason, maybe it's me that's lost perspective: hundreds of words complaining about something nobody else gives a hoot about? Maybe this is me losing perspective and therefore I'm the last person entitled to demand it in you guys.
But that aside, this is a game. We all enjoy the elements of this game that we all enjoy, or profess to enjoy by our playing it and by our participation in these forums. We want the game to be good, and to provide us with the elements we want. For me, that's mostly the few simulation aspects. I get most fun out of landing, taking off, manoeuvring in space with flight assist turned off (though I still wish there were a kill rotation switch, FD). You might, and probably do, enjoy different parts of the experience. But for the love of all that's good, are we so beyond recognising that, in the end, we all enjoy playing this particular game? Can we not acknowledge that we at least have that in common? Or at the very least, that we all enjoy putting the real world aside and arsing about on computer games for hours on end?
Look, TL-DR, I know. But the point is, some friction, some difference of opinion, over how ED works and what it focuses on is inevitable given its structure. You enjoy PVP; I don't - but my use of Solo worries you because it with the same simulation you're playing without giving you a way to counter me. I get that. I can't do much about it, but I get it. Maybe there's a way FD can resolve that; maybe it's an inevitable sticking point stemming from the game's basic design. But we can't do much about it. So what do we gain from nurturing hostility towards each other?
We can acknowledge these problems without having to convince ourselves that the 'other side' is trying to destroy the game, or ban us from playing, or that the 'other side' really need be an 'other side' at all. They're just players, playing the same game you enjoy for probably fairly similar reasons, and they want the game to be as good as possible, just like you do. Me, I want the game to cater for PVP and PVE players alike, providing isolation from human-to-human combat for those who don't want it, but also providing ample opportunities to 'roleplay a psycho' for those who want to do that. I want that. I'd love to see ED provide all that. I just don't know how it can. But does that mean I have to write off the PVP players' point of view and dismiss, or worse mock, their concerns or requests and suggestions?
TL-DR for the TL-DR: 1) I'm crap at doing TL-DR bits; and 2) There's more than enough stupid, unnecessary factionalism out there in the real world, especially at the moment and the gods know I don't mean to bring real politics in here, but, look, guys: we're playing a game. It's an escape. It's fun. We all think it's fun, some of us more than others, maybe, but in the end if we're all still playing it then we all clearly think it's worth sticking with, at least for now.
So can't we, just for a moment, acknowledge some commonality, and do away with some of the tribalism?
[up] (Look on this as an outstretched hand.)
I don't quote this here in a new thread in order to avoid the poster's attention, but to divorce the comment from the person. Because it's the comment and the attitude behind it that bother me, and it's something common to far more people than just this one poster.
"The immersers", fellow players. "The immersers".
Am I alone in thinking this ridiculous, fatuous tribalism is starting to get old and tired and threadbare?
This game has been deeply factionalised in one sense for as long as I can remember, and to some extent that's umavoidable: because of the way the game was built there was always going to be be friction (to say the least) between PVP and PVE players, and between soloists and those who like the whole Open mode thing. I genuinely believe FD thought this through and tried very hard to create a framework that would suit everyone, and if they failed it was only because they misjudged the dynamic between Solo and Group or Open play in a universe where the effects of all are potentially felt by all.
So that's an aspect of ED where I would expect some 'robust' discussion.
But 'immersers'? Come on.
Again, although I keep quoting this word, it's not specifically to target the person who used it. It's to highlight just how determinedly schismatic we are, and how automatic it seems to have become. It's not enough to just say you don't agree that the game needs more immersiveness. No, we have to invent a new label, because we need a quick and simple way to disparage people who enjoy particular elements of the game that don't hold a particular interest for us.
I'm not pretending this is unique to ED, or even gaming. It's universal, and maybe it's just my tendency towards pessimism and depression (yes, the proper kind) that makes me think it's getting worse - but I don't think it is. This is saturating our culture now, and I for one think it's time we started getting a grip. Before those of a Certain Viewpoint start getting all overheated (you know who you are), no, I'm not asking that we all sit round the fire singing Kum-Ba-Yah. I'm not asking for 'safe spaces', or 'trigger warnings', or 'sensivity', or all those other things you hate. I'm asking for logic, and reason. (Although a degree of sensitivity would serve those ends, but let it be.)
For what it's worth, I'd ask for the same things in real-world politics, too, but that's like asking the sea not to be wet. And I guess that's for other forums than this one.
This is a game. I know that's used as the excuse for many wrongs, but here I'm trying to supply some perspective. And maybe, you might well respond, and perhaps with some good reason, maybe it's me that's lost perspective: hundreds of words complaining about something nobody else gives a hoot about? Maybe this is me losing perspective and therefore I'm the last person entitled to demand it in you guys.
But that aside, this is a game. We all enjoy the elements of this game that we all enjoy, or profess to enjoy by our playing it and by our participation in these forums. We want the game to be good, and to provide us with the elements we want. For me, that's mostly the few simulation aspects. I get most fun out of landing, taking off, manoeuvring in space with flight assist turned off (though I still wish there were a kill rotation switch, FD). You might, and probably do, enjoy different parts of the experience. But for the love of all that's good, are we so beyond recognising that, in the end, we all enjoy playing this particular game? Can we not acknowledge that we at least have that in common? Or at the very least, that we all enjoy putting the real world aside and arsing about on computer games for hours on end?
Look, TL-DR, I know. But the point is, some friction, some difference of opinion, over how ED works and what it focuses on is inevitable given its structure. You enjoy PVP; I don't - but my use of Solo worries you because it with the same simulation you're playing without giving you a way to counter me. I get that. I can't do much about it, but I get it. Maybe there's a way FD can resolve that; maybe it's an inevitable sticking point stemming from the game's basic design. But we can't do much about it. So what do we gain from nurturing hostility towards each other?
We can acknowledge these problems without having to convince ourselves that the 'other side' is trying to destroy the game, or ban us from playing, or that the 'other side' really need be an 'other side' at all. They're just players, playing the same game you enjoy for probably fairly similar reasons, and they want the game to be as good as possible, just like you do. Me, I want the game to cater for PVP and PVE players alike, providing isolation from human-to-human combat for those who don't want it, but also providing ample opportunities to 'roleplay a psycho' for those who want to do that. I want that. I'd love to see ED provide all that. I just don't know how it can. But does that mean I have to write off the PVP players' point of view and dismiss, or worse mock, their concerns or requests and suggestions?
TL-DR for the TL-DR: 1) I'm crap at doing TL-DR bits; and 2) There's more than enough stupid, unnecessary factionalism out there in the real world, especially at the moment and the gods know I don't mean to bring real politics in here, but, look, guys: we're playing a game. It's an escape. It's fun. We all think it's fun, some of us more than others, maybe, but in the end if we're all still playing it then we all clearly think it's worth sticking with, at least for now.
So can't we, just for a moment, acknowledge some commonality, and do away with some of the tribalism?
[up] (Look on this as an outstretched hand.)
