rootsrat
Volunteer Moderator
::EDIT::29/11 - I have re-written some of the original stuff with some more arguments and in depth look. The original contents of this thread are in the spoiler tag below.
Community Goals as content delivery and story progression tools are in essence not bad at all. However they need to be engaging and interesting to fulfil that role. And I think this is not the case anymore.
I remember the Cerberus Plague. It was a little story line based around this epidemic that started in one system and then spread around. We had to stop the plague from spreading and it took us a while to do that! It was fun, the story was engaging and it took some effort to get rid of the plague.
It was all delivered as a series of Community Goals over the course of a few weeks. 1 CG per infected system. At first all the players tried to complete all the CG's in order to save all the systems. After we failed miserably it became clear we have to make sacrifices and save one system at a time. We banded together and somehow managed to control the plague and then help to invent a cure.
Lots of fun! The story was engaging, we could see the effects of your actions, we could see the stations in cured systems coming back to normal (some of the facilities were closed due to the plague) and then slowly but steady the Cerberus virus was eradicated.
Even though this was one of the very early CG's, it was a prime example of how the players can connect with the story behind a CG and get involved, actually seeing the results of their actions in game.
Also, Look at the one from couple of weeks ago - the one where we had to collect escape capsules and black boxes - it had a lot of people signed up and it ended just after 48 hours! It was something different and it was fun!
This weeks CG - even though the actions they require to take in order to complete them are fun - are a joke in comparison when it comes to participation. So what's happened? Well personally I think people are just bored with what the CG's have to offer. I think there are a few aspects that need to be looked at in order to attract people to participate in the CG's that are meant to be main story progression tool.
In no particular order, I think they are all equally important for the CG's to be an effective content delivery tool.
1) Unrealistic tier goals - whether it is intentional or a bug, when you see the CG struggle to reach Tier 1 in the first 48 hrs it really discourages from signing up for it. Why bother signing up for a lost case? And for this point - I don't mean that we should have easy-mode CG's, where they are guaranteed to be completed. A good challenge is needed too! What I meant was that CG's that are designed to fail (if that's the case at all) or that are bugged in a way that makes them impossible to be completed will not attract players.
2) Boring content - how many times can you haul some random trade goods for hundreds of LY's? It gets boring soon. We've had couple of interesting CG's lately, I mean the escape pod collecting was lots of fun, and this week's collecting tissue samples is something new and can also be quite fun. Give us something new, something unusual and interesting to do during the CG's and people will participate.
And I fully appreciate that it's different strokes for different people etc., but looking objectively - one can only repeat the same action so many times before it becomes a boring and dull activity. Especially if the story behind a CG is not very engaging or captivating.
There are SO MANY new and shiny things in the game. Guardian bases, Thargoid bases, all the CQC-like structures with satellites to scan, Mega Ships, Generation Ships, listening posts, planetary outposts that do nothing where you can't even dock, planetary mining sites, Thargoid battle sites, crashed ships, crashed pods, crashed nav beacons... Why not utilise them in Community Goals? Make CG's varied, make them interesting, use all the amazing stuff that at this point seems to be in game just for the sake of being in game.
These assets are truly amazing and it's a massive shame they are not being used in any way whatsoever
3) Back story behind a CG - My group hosted a CG few weeks ago - it was to build a space bar in a remote region of populated space. We've created the story and the characters associated with it and posted everything here on the forums. And even though the number of participants wasn't very high, compared to the other 2 CG's running this week, we still managed to complete the CG on Wednesday - even despite a Lockdown imposed on our system by a hostile group of players. I received lots of messages saying that it was a fun CG due to the back story. So even though the CG contents were a bit boring (it was rare commodities trading), the players felt engaged by the story, enough to commit time and fully complete this CG.
To give you some numbers - we've had just about 2200 players signed up to our CG. The other ones (there were 2 more running that week!) had over 8000 participants EACH. This is a great example of how a good backstory can make boring activities engaging. Same goes for the Cerberus Plague CG series, that I mentioned in the intro.
So maybe if the effect of the main story CG's was more significant, then more people would participate? You work your bottom off for a whole week and all you get isthis lousy t-shirt a bigger missile pod, that is probably going to get nerfed in the next patch anyway... Make the results of the CG more BOOM and more BANG! Make it count, make us feel we are making a difference together, as the community, especially that this is in regards to an alien race that seems to be attacking humans!
At this point player can't really feel that, there is no sense of danger, it's just a bunch of repeated alien encounters that don't have any meaning whatsoever...
4) CG rewards - one of the benefits of participating in a CG are the monetary rewards. However they are laughingly low in comparison to some other methods of making money. And especially when it comes to activities like fighting Thargoids, that can be a significant cost in ship repair bills. You want to attract players to participate? Make it worth our while! What's the point of participating in a boring and bland CG, when you can make 200 million per hour just grinding passenger missions elsewhere? (I don't personally do it, but many people do).
5) Narrative presentation - it's poor. It's very poor. I mean it's all described in the CG text, but it's just not very engaging. It's not interesting. Just bland text that means nothing. "We need to develop new anti-Thargoid weapons". That's it really, in essence. Plain text, no images, no videos, no voice acting... It's just one big 'meh' to be honest.
Honestly, the whole Galnet needs a massive overhaul and I understand this isn't going to happen overnight, but there is something about the wall of text in the CG description that is not very "catchy". Also, in the context of new anti-xeno weapons - pictures of the new gear are not even in game, we just get them through Twitter, Facebook etc. Really? C'mon, at least show us in game what we're fighting for! Make us WANT those new toys, make us WANT to shoot Thargoids or haul the explosives or acquire tissue samples or whatever else is needed. Players need to feel attached to the story, and presenting it in the right way is one way to achieve that goal.
6) Little details that don't make sense - so, there is this research group that wants to invent the new weapons to combat the most dangerous threat humanity has ever come across - an alien race. In order to do that, they need tissue samples delivered to their orbital starport. And yet they make the goods illegal in that starport... When the police scans you and find out you're hauling cargo that they owners of the station asked you for in a massive announcement, you get the fine that (to quote the classic) kills your credit balance? Really? It's little details like that, that make me go "meh". It makes the whole thing less realistic and, yes I am going to use that word, less immersive.
Below is the original post that I wrote yesterday, in a hurry (at work).
Community Goals as content delivery and story progression tools are in essence not bad at all. However they need to be engaging and interesting to fulfil that role. And I think this is not the case anymore.
I remember the Cerberus Plague. It was a little story line based around this epidemic that started in one system and then spread around. We had to stop the plague from spreading and it took us a while to do that! It was fun, the story was engaging and it took some effort to get rid of the plague.
It was all delivered as a series of Community Goals over the course of a few weeks. 1 CG per infected system. At first all the players tried to complete all the CG's in order to save all the systems. After we failed miserably it became clear we have to make sacrifices and save one system at a time. We banded together and somehow managed to control the plague and then help to invent a cure.
Lots of fun! The story was engaging, we could see the effects of your actions, we could see the stations in cured systems coming back to normal (some of the facilities were closed due to the plague) and then slowly but steady the Cerberus virus was eradicated.
Even though this was one of the very early CG's, it was a prime example of how the players can connect with the story behind a CG and get involved, actually seeing the results of their actions in game.
Also, Look at the one from couple of weeks ago - the one where we had to collect escape capsules and black boxes - it had a lot of people signed up and it ended just after 48 hours! It was something different and it was fun!
This weeks CG - even though the actions they require to take in order to complete them are fun - are a joke in comparison when it comes to participation. So what's happened? Well personally I think people are just bored with what the CG's have to offer. I think there are a few aspects that need to be looked at in order to attract people to participate in the CG's that are meant to be main story progression tool.
In no particular order, I think they are all equally important for the CG's to be an effective content delivery tool.
1) Unrealistic tier goals - whether it is intentional or a bug, when you see the CG struggle to reach Tier 1 in the first 48 hrs it really discourages from signing up for it. Why bother signing up for a lost case? And for this point - I don't mean that we should have easy-mode CG's, where they are guaranteed to be completed. A good challenge is needed too! What I meant was that CG's that are designed to fail (if that's the case at all) or that are bugged in a way that makes them impossible to be completed will not attract players.
2) Boring content - how many times can you haul some random trade goods for hundreds of LY's? It gets boring soon. We've had couple of interesting CG's lately, I mean the escape pod collecting was lots of fun, and this week's collecting tissue samples is something new and can also be quite fun. Give us something new, something unusual and interesting to do during the CG's and people will participate.
And I fully appreciate that it's different strokes for different people etc., but looking objectively - one can only repeat the same action so many times before it becomes a boring and dull activity. Especially if the story behind a CG is not very engaging or captivating.
There are SO MANY new and shiny things in the game. Guardian bases, Thargoid bases, all the CQC-like structures with satellites to scan, Mega Ships, Generation Ships, listening posts, planetary outposts that do nothing where you can't even dock, planetary mining sites, Thargoid battle sites, crashed ships, crashed pods, crashed nav beacons... Why not utilise them in Community Goals? Make CG's varied, make them interesting, use all the amazing stuff that at this point seems to be in game just for the sake of being in game.
These assets are truly amazing and it's a massive shame they are not being used in any way whatsoever
3) Back story behind a CG - My group hosted a CG few weeks ago - it was to build a space bar in a remote region of populated space. We've created the story and the characters associated with it and posted everything here on the forums. And even though the number of participants wasn't very high, compared to the other 2 CG's running this week, we still managed to complete the CG on Wednesday - even despite a Lockdown imposed on our system by a hostile group of players. I received lots of messages saying that it was a fun CG due to the back story. So even though the CG contents were a bit boring (it was rare commodities trading), the players felt engaged by the story, enough to commit time and fully complete this CG.
To give you some numbers - we've had just about 2200 players signed up to our CG. The other ones (there were 2 more running that week!) had over 8000 participants EACH. This is a great example of how a good backstory can make boring activities engaging. Same goes for the Cerberus Plague CG series, that I mentioned in the intro.
So maybe if the effect of the main story CG's was more significant, then more people would participate? You work your bottom off for a whole week and all you get is
At this point player can't really feel that, there is no sense of danger, it's just a bunch of repeated alien encounters that don't have any meaning whatsoever...
4) CG rewards - one of the benefits of participating in a CG are the monetary rewards. However they are laughingly low in comparison to some other methods of making money. And especially when it comes to activities like fighting Thargoids, that can be a significant cost in ship repair bills. You want to attract players to participate? Make it worth our while! What's the point of participating in a boring and bland CG, when you can make 200 million per hour just grinding passenger missions elsewhere? (I don't personally do it, but many people do).
5) Narrative presentation - it's poor. It's very poor. I mean it's all described in the CG text, but it's just not very engaging. It's not interesting. Just bland text that means nothing. "We need to develop new anti-Thargoid weapons". That's it really, in essence. Plain text, no images, no videos, no voice acting... It's just one big 'meh' to be honest.
Honestly, the whole Galnet needs a massive overhaul and I understand this isn't going to happen overnight, but there is something about the wall of text in the CG description that is not very "catchy". Also, in the context of new anti-xeno weapons - pictures of the new gear are not even in game, we just get them through Twitter, Facebook etc. Really? C'mon, at least show us in game what we're fighting for! Make us WANT those new toys, make us WANT to shoot Thargoids or haul the explosives or acquire tissue samples or whatever else is needed. Players need to feel attached to the story, and presenting it in the right way is one way to achieve that goal.
6) Little details that don't make sense - so, there is this research group that wants to invent the new weapons to combat the most dangerous threat humanity has ever come across - an alien race. In order to do that, they need tissue samples delivered to their orbital starport. And yet they make the goods illegal in that starport... When the police scans you and find out you're hauling cargo that they owners of the station asked you for in a massive announcement, you get the fine that (to quote the classic) kills your credit balance? Really? It's little details like that, that make me go "meh". It makes the whole thing less realistic and, yes I am going to use that word, less immersive.
Below is the original post that I wrote yesterday, in a hurry (at work).
Community Goals as content delivery and story progression tools are not bad at all. However they need to be engaging and interesting to fulfil that role. And I think this is not the case anymore.
I remember the Cerberus Plague CG series. It was a whole little storyline based around the CG's. We had to stop the plague from spreading and it took us a while to do that! It was fun, the story was engaging and it took some effort to get rid of the plague. Look at the one from couple of weeks ago - the one where we had to collect escape capsules and black boxes - it had a lot of people signed up and it ended after 48 hours! It was something different and it was fun! This weeks CG are a joke in comparison, even though the activities themselves are quite fun as well.
So what's happened? Well personally I think people are just bored with what the CG's have to offer. I think there are a few aspects that need to be looked at in order to attract people to participate in the CG's that are meant to be main story progression tool.
In no particular order, I think they are all equally important for the CG's to be an effective content delivery tool.
1) Unrealistic tier goals - whether it is intentional or a bug, when you see the CG struggle to reach Tier 1 in the first 48 hrs it really discourages from signing up for it. Why bother signing up for a lost case?
::EDIT:: For this point - I don't mean that we should have easy-mode CG's, where they are guaranteed to be completed. A good challenge is needed too! What I meant was that CG's that are designed to fail (if that's the case at all) or that are bugged in a way that makes them impossible to be completed will not attract players. That's the context, hope it's more clear now.
2) Boring content - how many times can you haul some random trade goods for hundreds of LY's? It gets boring soon. We've had couple of interesting CG's lately, I mean the escape pod collecting was lots of fun, and this week's collecting tissue samples is something new and can also be quite fun. Give us something new, something unusual and interesting to do during the CG's and people will participate.
3) Story progression speed - maybe if the effect of the completed CG was more significant, then more people would participate? You work your bottom off for a whole week and all you get isthis lousy t-shirt a bigger missile pod, that is probably going to be nerfed in the next patch anyway... Make the result of the CG more BOOM and more BANG! Make it count, make us feel we are making a difference together, as the community!
4) CG rewards - one of the benefits of participating in a CG are the monetary rewards. However they are laughingly low in comparison to some other methods of making money. And especially when it comes to activities like fighting Thargoids, that can be a significant cost in ship repair bills. You want to attract players to participate? Make it worth our while!
5) Narrative presentation - it's poor. I mean it's all described in the CG text, but it's just not very engaging. I mean the whole Galnet needs a massive overhaul, but there is something about the wall of text in the CG description that is not very "catchy". Also, in the context of new anti-xeno weapons - pictures of the new gear are not even in game, we just get them through Twitter, Facebook etc. Really? C'mon, at least show us in game what we're fighting for! Make us WANT those new toys, make us WANT to shoot Thargoids or haul the explosives or acquire tissue samples or whatever else is needed. Players need to feel attached to the story.
6) Little details that don't make sense - so, there is this research group that wants to invent the new weapons to combat the most dangerous threat humanity has ever come across - an alien race. In order to do that, they need tissue samples delivered to their orbital starport. And yet they make the goods illegal in that starport... When the police scans you and find out you're hauling cargo that they owners of the station asked you for in a massive announcement, you get the fine that (to quote the classic) kills your credit balance? Really? It's little details like that, that make me go "meh". It makes the whole thing less realistic and, yes I am going to use that word, less immersive.
Thoughts? Ideas?
I remember the Cerberus Plague CG series. It was a whole little storyline based around the CG's. We had to stop the plague from spreading and it took us a while to do that! It was fun, the story was engaging and it took some effort to get rid of the plague. Look at the one from couple of weeks ago - the one where we had to collect escape capsules and black boxes - it had a lot of people signed up and it ended after 48 hours! It was something different and it was fun! This weeks CG are a joke in comparison, even though the activities themselves are quite fun as well.
So what's happened? Well personally I think people are just bored with what the CG's have to offer. I think there are a few aspects that need to be looked at in order to attract people to participate in the CG's that are meant to be main story progression tool.
In no particular order, I think they are all equally important for the CG's to be an effective content delivery tool.
1) Unrealistic tier goals - whether it is intentional or a bug, when you see the CG struggle to reach Tier 1 in the first 48 hrs it really discourages from signing up for it. Why bother signing up for a lost case?
::EDIT:: For this point - I don't mean that we should have easy-mode CG's, where they are guaranteed to be completed. A good challenge is needed too! What I meant was that CG's that are designed to fail (if that's the case at all) or that are bugged in a way that makes them impossible to be completed will not attract players. That's the context, hope it's more clear now.
2) Boring content - how many times can you haul some random trade goods for hundreds of LY's? It gets boring soon. We've had couple of interesting CG's lately, I mean the escape pod collecting was lots of fun, and this week's collecting tissue samples is something new and can also be quite fun. Give us something new, something unusual and interesting to do during the CG's and people will participate.
3) Story progression speed - maybe if the effect of the completed CG was more significant, then more people would participate? You work your bottom off for a whole week and all you get is
4) CG rewards - one of the benefits of participating in a CG are the monetary rewards. However they are laughingly low in comparison to some other methods of making money. And especially when it comes to activities like fighting Thargoids, that can be a significant cost in ship repair bills. You want to attract players to participate? Make it worth our while!
5) Narrative presentation - it's poor. I mean it's all described in the CG text, but it's just not very engaging. I mean the whole Galnet needs a massive overhaul, but there is something about the wall of text in the CG description that is not very "catchy". Also, in the context of new anti-xeno weapons - pictures of the new gear are not even in game, we just get them through Twitter, Facebook etc. Really? C'mon, at least show us in game what we're fighting for! Make us WANT those new toys, make us WANT to shoot Thargoids or haul the explosives or acquire tissue samples or whatever else is needed. Players need to feel attached to the story.
6) Little details that don't make sense - so, there is this research group that wants to invent the new weapons to combat the most dangerous threat humanity has ever come across - an alien race. In order to do that, they need tissue samples delivered to their orbital starport. And yet they make the goods illegal in that starport... When the police scans you and find out you're hauling cargo that they owners of the station asked you for in a massive announcement, you get the fine that (to quote the classic) kills your credit balance? Really? It's little details like that, that make me go "meh". It makes the whole thing less realistic and, yes I am going to use that word, less immersive.
Thoughts? Ideas?
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