It's hard not to agree that the exploration gameplay is bare minimum - you can't make it any simpler without getting something like Space Engine, albeit less pretty. That's why I decided to retire for now. I hope that FDEV will, eventually, manage to build something a bit deeper and more challenging upon these foundations. And by this I don't mean planetary landing - there is so much that might be done before that.
Complete Overhaul Needed
- Thread starter Colonel Kenney
- Start date
and now we have a community goal to look for Earth-likes.... I for one welcome our insect overlords....
InMemoriamSirocco
Banned
I agree to a certain extent. We need more types of planets out there, with many more different types of atmospheres, many more types of extraterrestrial life... ice planets with subglacial ocean life that are far more valuable than regular ice planets, so you have an incentive to scan those, too... terrestrial planets that are locked in a "snowball-earth"-state so they appear as ice planets, but are indeed habitable and valuable... planets with green glowing methane atmospheres and exotic life... Flare stars that frequently erupt into solar flares and energy storms and put you at increased risk while scooping... earthlikes that look different to the standard green continents and blue oceans... what about pink or lilac oceans and brown continents? Especially around Red Dwarf stars... What about blue plant life instead of green?... What about accretiation disks around black holes, neutron stars and close binaries?
What about newborn stars:
Ummm no, sorry... Exploration already is the most time-consuming activity you can do in the game. Making it even slower will only make it worse.
This is a terrible idea and doesn't make any sense at all.
If the scanner can locate smaller planetary bodies via those methods, why not during the "gong"? Again: Doesn't make sense.
It is already bad enough that you have to point your ship at an object for detailed scanning, when passive scanning while flying by should be perfectly possible.
Finally something I can agree with. The orrery view needs to come, and soon (tm).
Bad idea. Part of detailed scanning is finding out whether that brown object is a rare ammonia world or just a high metal content planet... or whether that blue marble is a waterworld or indeed an earthlike. It's a good system and should stay that way.
While I disagree for the "you have to get closer" part, I agree with the rest, which are all very good suggestions.
That would indeed be a neat addition.
Again: Agreed.
Basically: Make exploration more INTERESTING, not just more time-consuming or complicated for the mere sake of it.
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I agree with some of your points, more interesting certainly but I think you may be blurring the lines between exploring and surveying (which are already close partners). It's this distinction, which I think needs to be addressed.
In my mind going somewhere where no one has been before, preferably getting there fast, in the hope of finding something interesting with a quick, cursory overview = exploring. Taking your time, doing detailed scans of every planet you find, in every system you find = Surveying / Cartography.
Of course both of these professions can be married together just like ye olde explore shippes who took naturalists, surveyors, cartographers, etc with them.
I get what you mean. Exploration is just exploring.. and finding things but you don't need to write down or record any of it to be an exploring... it does not mean "cataloging" etc. But in this game that's why its called Universal Cartographics. Surveying is just the "detailed" version of exploration that involves recording what you find in exchange for money. That is why there is level 1, 2, 3 etc.
I think interesting things need to be "highlighted" for us as we may miss them. The system map is outside the cockpit. The lack of exploration data has been the major issue I've had. They could have had all sorts of data in the the cockpit if they wanted but they chose not to so people could read text with the oculus rift. We just need that "Feedback".
Exploration is about discovering things more than just you found x amount of planets. The feedback should be more detailed and presented to us in a rewarding fashion
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I speed read through the thread. Interesting points and ideas OP.
I think there needs to be a higher degree of separation between searching with the gong and doing a DSS once you get in the system in the reward structure. I think this is a bit of what you are saying. I think the payout for doing lvl 1, 2, and 3 scans really needs to reflect a difference in the amount of time required. At this point, why bother with doing a DSS of most things in the system? There is marginal benefit in doing so, and only the surveyors are really doing it. That way just using the gong has a base reward and to actually make money you have to have a higher amount of systems scanned, vs the time surveyors spend scanning entire systems to reflect the amount of time required to do either.
A couple of things I strongly agree with the OP about: explored systems done by the CMDR needs to be easily recognizable in the galaxy map and the next level of exploration added to the game needs to be planetary exploration. There should be a type of scanner that is a size 2 module that is a combination of ADS and DSS for when planetary landings come to allow for another scanning system. This allows for greater variety for players to decide what they want to do and how they want to equip their ship for the task ahead, and the variety of play styles.
Surveying is a part of exploring. As well as cataloging is part of exploring. When explorers reached a new land, they surveyed it to make maps. There is a strong history of correlation between the two.
I think there needs to be a higher degree of separation between searching with the gong and doing a DSS once you get in the system in the reward structure. I think this is a bit of what you are saying. I think the payout for doing lvl 1, 2, and 3 scans really needs to reflect a difference in the amount of time required. At this point, why bother with doing a DSS of most things in the system? There is marginal benefit in doing so, and only the surveyors are really doing it. That way just using the gong has a base reward and to actually make money you have to have a higher amount of systems scanned, vs the time surveyors spend scanning entire systems to reflect the amount of time required to do either.
A couple of things I strongly agree with the OP about: explored systems done by the CMDR needs to be easily recognizable in the galaxy map and the next level of exploration added to the game needs to be planetary exploration. There should be a type of scanner that is a size 2 module that is a combination of ADS and DSS for when planetary landings come to allow for another scanning system. This allows for greater variety for players to decide what they want to do and how they want to equip their ship for the task ahead, and the variety of play styles.
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Few other things
1) Galaxy map needs to be able to highlight starts you've visited
2) Possibly Univeral Cartographics can sell a membership for the "galactic map". Meaning we can see all stars people have returned with exploration data from. This will allow us to plot courses to "uncharted territory" instead of wasting our time.
3) Allow us to plot "close course" from the LEFT SIDE Menu console. Click on the star that is out of range and then a sub menu comes up to plot a course to it.
4) We need scanner timers or indication as to how long its going to take.
5) Upgraded scanners that will improve scan time. If it takes 30 seconds now let us buy a module that'll only take 15 seconds etc.
6) Indication on the left about the system if it has been "explored" already - so we don't need to jump to our system map.
All of this is really about putting more data at the touch of our hands.
1) Galaxy map needs to be able to highlight starts you've visited
2) Possibly Univeral Cartographics can sell a membership for the "galactic map". Meaning we can see all stars people have returned with exploration data from. This will allow us to plot courses to "uncharted territory" instead of wasting our time.
3) Allow us to plot "close course" from the LEFT SIDE Menu console. Click on the star that is out of range and then a sub menu comes up to plot a course to it.
4) We need scanner timers or indication as to how long its going to take.
5) Upgraded scanners that will improve scan time. If it takes 30 seconds now let us buy a module that'll only take 15 seconds etc.
6) Indication on the left about the system if it has been "explored" already - so we don't need to jump to our system map.
All of this is really about putting more data at the touch of our hands.
Where is this community goal?
Another thing needed is plotting routes that take into account stopping by fuel scoopable stars. I find sometimees it'll plow through a whole bunch of red dwarfs leaving me dry and looking for neaby yellow stars.
Not a fan of any/many of these suggestions 
apologies
- - - Updated - - -
I really agree with a lot of what CMDR InMemoriamSirocco posted in this thread
apologies- - - Updated - - -
I really agree with a lot of what CMDR InMemoriamSirocco posted in this thread
Has the DD (F/A whatever) been thrown out of the window by FD??
[[ Explorer players must discover different points of interest using different methods
•Explorer players’ main method of making money is through selling details of points of interest they discover
•Points of interest players can discover include:
•Star Systems
•Dark Systems (systems without a star, but other features)
•Stars
•Planets
•Asteroids, comets
•Moons
•Structures
•Other Phenomena
•These Discovered locations may include:
•Secret Locations
•Resources
•Events/Missions (time limited and permenant)
•Beauty spots (usually attached to other entities)
•Messages/Beacons
•Players explore to build up the details on their galaxy map
•When starting a new commander the player will have some details on their galaxy map
•This will allow the player to travel to any locations they have map data to, without having to explore
•Players can buy map data from authorities to expand their ships computers library of maps
•New map data will allow the player to travel to new locations without needing to explore
•Map data that is bought from authorities is not to the highest level of detail and can be improved with player gathered data
•Map data includes hyperspace routes to systems and major points of interest in that system
•Players can use scanning equipment and probes to detect systems and record new hyperspace routes
•Scanners are used to detect any nearby systems that are within the players jump range
•Scanners will give the player a vague indication of the direction of a system
•High end scanners can give the player a better details of the system they have detected (is it a star, an asteroid field etc.)
•Players can then launch hyperspace probes that will give the player more information on the part of space they are looking at
•Probes will give the player heat-map style data to help guide the player to the correct co-ordinates for a jump
•Heatmap data might be ambiguous, creating skill based gameplay where the player learns to interpret the readings they receive
•Different equipment can determine the quality of heatmap data
•Different probe ammo can provide different information, or react based on objects in the target system
•Using the data they have gathered the player must align their ship as best they can with the target system and activate the hyperdrive to jump to the system
•The player’s ship records data of any successful jumps the player makes
•The pilots federation will always pay players for the first successful jump they make using the exploration method (If the player bought the map data for the jump they cannot sell the data), even if the player is not the first person ever to make the jump (the pilots federation use the data to improve their telemetry and keep maps up to date)
•If the player is the first person to ever make the journey they receive a bonus for discovering the hyperspace route
•The closer the player lines up their jump to the target system, the higher quality the data the players ship will gather on the jump. Higher quality data is worth more money when sold to authorities
•If a player’s jump is not accurate enough they may suffer a miss jump
•Longer distance jumps require a higher level of accuracy
•A systems contents may also affect how accurate a players jump must be to avoid mis-jumping
•Players use scanners to detect points of interest within systems
•The player’s scanners detect various points of interest around the player
•It takes time for players scanners to detect points of interest
•Player’s proximity to a point of interest can affect the time it takes to detect
•Proximity may often have risks associated with it - Solar Radiation for example
•Players ship facing can affect the time it takes to detect a point of interest (e.g. pointing my ship at a undiscovered point of interest will allow me to scan it faster)
•Different types of points of interest can require different player actions to detect
•For example to detect a mineral rich formation of asteroids the player must launch probes around an asteroid field
•The probes provide a cross section from their perspective of the asteroid field they’re launched at
•Each additional probe the player uses provides more details on the target asteroid field
•The player uses their scanner to view the data from the probes, and must tag the areas with the highest concentration of minerals in the field
•Once this process is complete the point of interest is completed
•The quality of the players scan of the area affects the value of the data
•The quality of the player’s scan can affect the amount and type of materials found in the asteroids
•Players can sell the information that they discover through these methods
•Players will have to travel back to sell the data they acquire while exploring
•The first player to sell/discover the information recieves a greater reward
•Information by become redundant from time to time as the galaxy moves and it can then be resold
Players can sell information they have gathered to other players as well as authorities. This is done through a trade interface similar to the trade goods trading interface. Players can sell hyperspace routes from their location to any single system they have explored to. The purchasing player then offers a price (this can be 0 if it is a gift), and if both players are satisfied they agree to the trade. Players can also trade in system data including locations of points of interest using the same method.
. . .
Players who decide to go exploring are jumping into the unknown, and without high end kit, often with little to no knowledge of the dangers they are jumping in to. Alongside the risk of encountering hostility when jumping to an unknown system, explorers scanners attract a lot of attention, generating lots of heat. Explorer ships will need to be prepared to face hostile activity when exploring, and players need to be ready to fight for their claims or run for their lives. ]]
.
- Taken from the DD Archives.
It would seem that SO much has been discarded / not implemented / or just plain changed!
.
It seems to me that FD has also gone too far in the wrong direction and that a U turn is either unlikely or would create a huge amount of bad press/feelings with those that have now gotten used to the simplistic "Here I'll show you everything with a simple scan", approach that FD seem to have adopted.
.
The biggest thing that narks me at the moment, is that a single scan will show you exactly what a planet or moon looks like on the system map - even if I haven't scanned the planet/moon yet! If I haven't been there and looked at it then it should just be a space filler on this display until I have!!! At least we would have some sense of excitement / achievement when we do actually find what type of planet it is and what it looks like. (However - There DOES need to be more variety (even if this is not "REAL"), just another plain ball of ice can get pretty boring. Most planets / moons in our own solar system seem to have at least one or surprises up their sleeves when you look at them closely - If the Procedural Gen can't create something as interesting as the Earth, Moon, Venus, Mars or Jupiter then the system needs improving!)
.
Also seems to me that there are two schools of thought here. Those that agree with the OP that exploration should take time and effort and that discovery is it's own reward (The whole point of having a huge galaxy to explore is to find interesting and different things and to feel 'something' when you do - isn't it? As Picard said, "Let's see what's out there"). At the moment it is pretty much handed to you on a plate. And then there are those who like it 'On a plate' and probably feel it is too complex as is.
[[ Explorer players must discover different points of interest using different methods
•Explorer players’ main method of making money is through selling details of points of interest they discover
•Points of interest players can discover include:
•Star Systems
•Dark Systems (systems without a star, but other features)
•Stars
•Planets
•Asteroids, comets
•Moons
•Structures
•Other Phenomena
•These Discovered locations may include:
•Secret Locations
•Resources
•Events/Missions (time limited and permenant)
•Beauty spots (usually attached to other entities)
•Messages/Beacons
•Players explore to build up the details on their galaxy map
•When starting a new commander the player will have some details on their galaxy map
•This will allow the player to travel to any locations they have map data to, without having to explore
•Players can buy map data from authorities to expand their ships computers library of maps
•New map data will allow the player to travel to new locations without needing to explore
•Map data that is bought from authorities is not to the highest level of detail and can be improved with player gathered data
•Map data includes hyperspace routes to systems and major points of interest in that system
•Players can use scanning equipment and probes to detect systems and record new hyperspace routes
•Scanners are used to detect any nearby systems that are within the players jump range
•Scanners will give the player a vague indication of the direction of a system
•High end scanners can give the player a better details of the system they have detected (is it a star, an asteroid field etc.)
•Players can then launch hyperspace probes that will give the player more information on the part of space they are looking at
•Probes will give the player heat-map style data to help guide the player to the correct co-ordinates for a jump
•Heatmap data might be ambiguous, creating skill based gameplay where the player learns to interpret the readings they receive
•Different equipment can determine the quality of heatmap data
•Different probe ammo can provide different information, or react based on objects in the target system
•Using the data they have gathered the player must align their ship as best they can with the target system and activate the hyperdrive to jump to the system
•The player’s ship records data of any successful jumps the player makes
•The pilots federation will always pay players for the first successful jump they make using the exploration method (If the player bought the map data for the jump they cannot sell the data), even if the player is not the first person ever to make the jump (the pilots federation use the data to improve their telemetry and keep maps up to date)
•If the player is the first person to ever make the journey they receive a bonus for discovering the hyperspace route
•The closer the player lines up their jump to the target system, the higher quality the data the players ship will gather on the jump. Higher quality data is worth more money when sold to authorities
•If a player’s jump is not accurate enough they may suffer a miss jump
•Longer distance jumps require a higher level of accuracy
•A systems contents may also affect how accurate a players jump must be to avoid mis-jumping
•Players use scanners to detect points of interest within systems
•The player’s scanners detect various points of interest around the player
•It takes time for players scanners to detect points of interest
•Player’s proximity to a point of interest can affect the time it takes to detect
•Proximity may often have risks associated with it - Solar Radiation for example
•Players ship facing can affect the time it takes to detect a point of interest (e.g. pointing my ship at a undiscovered point of interest will allow me to scan it faster)
•Different types of points of interest can require different player actions to detect
•For example to detect a mineral rich formation of asteroids the player must launch probes around an asteroid field
•The probes provide a cross section from their perspective of the asteroid field they’re launched at
•Each additional probe the player uses provides more details on the target asteroid field
•The player uses their scanner to view the data from the probes, and must tag the areas with the highest concentration of minerals in the field
•Once this process is complete the point of interest is completed
•The quality of the players scan of the area affects the value of the data
•The quality of the player’s scan can affect the amount and type of materials found in the asteroids
•Players can sell the information that they discover through these methods
•Players will have to travel back to sell the data they acquire while exploring
•The first player to sell/discover the information recieves a greater reward
•Information by become redundant from time to time as the galaxy moves and it can then be resold
Players can sell information they have gathered to other players as well as authorities. This is done through a trade interface similar to the trade goods trading interface. Players can sell hyperspace routes from their location to any single system they have explored to. The purchasing player then offers a price (this can be 0 if it is a gift), and if both players are satisfied they agree to the trade. Players can also trade in system data including locations of points of interest using the same method.
. . .
Players who decide to go exploring are jumping into the unknown, and without high end kit, often with little to no knowledge of the dangers they are jumping in to. Alongside the risk of encountering hostility when jumping to an unknown system, explorers scanners attract a lot of attention, generating lots of heat. Explorer ships will need to be prepared to face hostile activity when exploring, and players need to be ready to fight for their claims or run for their lives. ]]
.
- Taken from the DD Archives.
It would seem that SO much has been discarded / not implemented / or just plain changed!
.
It seems to me that FD has also gone too far in the wrong direction and that a U turn is either unlikely or would create a huge amount of bad press/feelings with those that have now gotten used to the simplistic "Here I'll show you everything with a simple scan", approach that FD seem to have adopted.
.
The biggest thing that narks me at the moment, is that a single scan will show you exactly what a planet or moon looks like on the system map - even if I haven't scanned the planet/moon yet! If I haven't been there and looked at it then it should just be a space filler on this display until I have!!! At least we would have some sense of excitement / achievement when we do actually find what type of planet it is and what it looks like. (However - There DOES need to be more variety (even if this is not "REAL"), just another plain ball of ice can get pretty boring. Most planets / moons in our own solar system seem to have at least one or surprises up their sleeves when you look at them closely - If the Procedural Gen can't create something as interesting as the Earth, Moon, Venus, Mars or Jupiter then the system needs improving!)
.
Also seems to me that there are two schools of thought here. Those that agree with the OP that exploration should take time and effort and that discovery is it's own reward (The whole point of having a huge galaxy to explore is to find interesting and different things and to feel 'something' when you do - isn't it? As Picard said, "Let's see what's out there"). At the moment it is pretty much handed to you on a plate. And then there are those who like it 'On a plate' and probably feel it is too complex as is.
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1 & 6. Simple colour change would do it
2. I like the Unimap idea - Available to the Galactic Mapping, Exploration and Naming core (yeah was struggling for a 'N'
3. Could be easyish to implement, tick KGB FOAM = leaves your route on the map but hides all the other KNOWN types
I'm a big fan of the simple 1,2,3 approach..
1. By all means blast through a sector getting your discovery name on STARS and a bit of data on what's in the systems like '4 bodies discovered' - don't want to hang around? Be on your way and do another...you'll get a bit of cash for everyone one you tag.
2. Wonder what those bodies are? Equip your planetary scanners and spend a bit of time doing a scan... Now you get your planets/satellites 'typed' along with 'orbital structures' - worth quite a bit more than 1.
3. Want to find out what exactly that distant blue planet actually is? GO THERE, pop off your planetary probe - NOW you get a DSS which is worth hella lot more than 1 and 2. Also fire your probe at the orbital station to 'dock with it' and return type and size (also worth a bit)
Seems to me would suit all types - I don't see a downside (but just spent 5 hours in a data centre so my brain is cold)
suits Explorers
suits the Cartographers
suits the Surveyors
suits the time limited speedsters
suits the hour or two brief over-viewers
suits the anally retentive, 'What shade exactly, is that grass?'
(Ok I'll admit it....I'm the last one
- after starting the game I watched solar flares on ONE sun for 4/5 hours to watch how they built up and how they dispersed)Regards
NightAdder
Btw. Community goal... check Galnet and scroll down the left hand side - Grand Sirius Interstellar Exp.
"•This will allow the player to travel to any locations they have map data to, without having to explore"
This will require an orrery map for sure.
•Beauty spots (usually attached to other entities)
Have not fount too many of these. The stellar forge is pretty primitive. Although last night I did find a gas giant very close to a primary and then 2 large close binary stars. All 4 objects nearby it was nice.
•Players can then launch hyperspace probes that will give the player more information on the part of space they are looking at
The gong settles that.
That entire list makes me sad really..
This will require an orrery map for sure.
•Beauty spots (usually attached to other entities)
Have not fount too many of these. The stellar forge is pretty primitive. Although last night I did find a gas giant very close to a primary and then 2 large close binary stars. All 4 objects nearby it was nice.
•Players can then launch hyperspace probes that will give the player more information on the part of space they are looking at
The gong settles that.
That entire list makes me sad really..
For me this isn't about deadlines and ultimatums - I for one will stick with it and continue to enjoy what I do
Here, here. This makes two CMDRs.
For a game of randomness there is none in exploration.
Would be nice to stumble on a deralict craft, comet, alien life form or other weirdness from time to time.
Perhaps a meteor shower or two.
Would be nice to stumble on a deralict craft, comet, alien life form or other weirdness from time to time.
Perhaps a meteor shower or two.
Exploration is not finished yet. What we have at this moment in time is a very basic concept of the final vision. Unfortunately I can not link the original document as to what FD what exploration to be like, but I will say this from what I do remember reading in Alpha.
There will be dark systems which will allow pilots to jump greater distances when found, pilots who find them can sell the data on these dark systems or keep them secret.
Planet exploration when landing on planets becomes available. This will allow players to explore the planet surface scan rocks and life forms etc.
Then there are places that can not be jumped to yet in the galaxy as these are fenced off for future expansions. Some of which has already been found and mapped, but expect many more pockets out there.
There will be dark systems which will allow pilots to jump greater distances when found, pilots who find them can sell the data on these dark systems or keep them secret.
Planet exploration when landing on planets becomes available. This will allow players to explore the planet surface scan rocks and life forms etc.
Then there are places that can not be jumped to yet in the galaxy as these are fenced off for future expansions. Some of which has already been found and mapped, but expect many more pockets out there.
Yeah read page 2.. someone linked the ddf list.
Source reference that "Exploration is not finished yet" would be nice. I'd like to see where devs have admitted that they admit its a basic concept of their final vision. Not being snarky I'd just like to see it.
Source reference that "Exploration is not finished yet" would be nice. I'd like to see where devs have admitted that they admit its a basic concept of their final vision. Not being snarky I'd just like to see it.
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Regarding DDF... here's an old concept art for planetary exploration UI.
http://ryvax.tumblr.com/post/113086746675/old-ui-concept-for-the-exploration-surveyor-in
Obviously, idea to create A LOT more interactive and deeper exploration mechanics was even visualized to some degree; what happened afterwards, why all this work has been dumped (or put on indefinite hold), and exactly how are they planning to build and expand exploration in an open question.
http://ryvax.tumblr.com/post/113086746675/old-ui-concept-for-the-exploration-surveyor-in
Obviously, idea to create A LOT more interactive and deeper exploration mechanics was even visualized to some degree; what happened afterwards, why all this work has been dumped (or put on indefinite hold), and exactly how are they planning to build and expand exploration in an open question.
OMG that is EXACTLY the sort of thing I was thinking. BUT with some information on the left/right middle. We are not flying around we need to stay still so putting up data in the cockpit would be fine.
They need to see this.
They need to see this.
They already did, and it lead nowhere. There were some great ideas being thrown around back before alpha, and they all lent themselves well to the proposals that were on the table. But its a whole new game now and I feel that if an idea is to be considered today, it has to be an extremely simplistic one (like being able to click on an unexplored world on the system map and fly to it... yeah they'll add that alright). That mockup is the kind of interesting gameplay you're more than likely see in Star Citizen now.
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Funny I posted this to reddit for you it made the top page for 2 days ... was a complete karma farm for me. I didn't want the karma but hey.
The amount of attention it garnered really deserves the attention of the developers that are serious about improving the game.
The amount of attention it garnered really deserves the attention of the developers that are serious about improving the game.