Conflict Zone Aggro needs a tough look at

[Cmdr Hobgoblin]

Since I am in this game, I have mainly earned my money through Bounty Hunting, Conflict Zones and a few days of Exploration.
Some Missions on the side, but mainly those mentioned.
With over 135h clocked now, I think I can have an opinion.

Before people doubt that:

Here is the thing:

Earlier, I was over 1 hour in a CZ without getting any noticeable aggro. Sure, Targets I attacked, attacked me. No big deal. I had to FSD out for a short time once, but dropped back in immediately and continued fighting.
Was able to make 500k in Vouchers and finished 1 Mission.

Then I turned that mission in and returned.

The second time, I went in, turned around, boosted out of range, selected my faction, looked for targets under fire, just as I always do.
Started shooting a Federal Dropship. At 5% of the enemy, suddenly a lot of ships turned against me. I didn't see how many exactly, but was more than 3 that blinked.
I turned around and started boosting away with 4 in engines and 2 in systems. Retracted Hardpoints and wanted to FSD out.
I lost my shield, at 8X% Armor, everything went out and my ship exploded a few seconds later. Just like that. I have a Vulture at 1500 Armor, that should not happen at 8X%.
I think it was 89%, could be a little less, but around that. This happened 2x today.

I think the aggro in CZ is very unpredictable. Something needs to be done there. I have the feeling that some friendly ships go away when you select your faction and the enemies that have been in combat with those, then have a chance turning onto you.
Either Frontier gives us shields that can take this mass amount of enemies, or they balance it otherwise.
In RES sites, I can manage my aggro easily by just waiting until they drop to 10% and firing then. Without any cargo, you will never take a single hit.

Mind you, I do not have Horizons and therefore, no Engineers.

 

[NascentChemist]

Hmm, they could be sniping your powerplant. I can't remember how fragile that is on the Vulture, but that's the only explanation if your hull was above 80%

 

[Red Anders]

Engineering your ship would certainly help with survivability but it's not strictly necessary.

The thing with combat zones is that over time the battle will ebb and flow. You have to remember that they're not supposed to be a farming scenario, res sites provide that experience, combat zones are basically a pitched battle in space as part of some grubby little war.

What you described is accurate for sure, in that at times you will find your side has the upper hand and then the tide will turn. I was last in one a few days back and at one point I had about 12 allied ships around me and we were fighting two enemies. Five minutes later it was 10 vs 10 because a new group of enemy ships appeared and since five of them were pretty close together they rinsed a few of the friendlies immediately on arrival with focused fire. CZs usually end up spread out across about 10k of space and you'll find pockets of friendlies and pockets of enemies, the key is keeping a close eye on your radar and if you notice that you're becoming surrounded with reds or have four of them screaming in towards you, be prepared to either boost away to some friendlies or boost clear of the CZ completely. Usually if you boost out you will find one of the enemies follows you, especially if you were shooting at it but you can just kite them away from their friends, kill them, regen your shields and then look for a group of friendlies to head towards when you want to rejoin the fight.

In short I agree completely with your observation of how things can go but I don't see it as a problem personally, it's part of the intended experience.

 

[Roasted1982]

Hmm, they could be sniping your powerplant. I can't remember how fragile that is on the Vulture, but that's the only explanation if your hull was above 80%

Chances are his power plant is heavily heavily overcharged on a vulture. Overcharged pp = crap integrity.

 

[Red Anders]

Chances are his power plant is heavily heavily overcharged on a vulture. Overcharged pp = crap integrity.

He said he doesn't have Horizons and therefore can't have engineered it...

 

[Roasted1982]

Ahh ok. Reading. Lol

 

[Red Anders]

Ahh ok. Reading. Lol

If it's any consolation, it would have been a perfectly valid observation

 

[CAPT. Ho Chi Minge]

The 1 major flaw that the vulture has is its powerplant placement, when you target a vulture without targetting modules your crosshairs basically sit right where the power plant sits .. if you have 89% armour when you exploded then it sounds most certainly like you had been powerplant sniped ... the module armour should help with this but it is a glaring weakness with the vulture sadly, still an awaome little ship though.

 

[Aussiedroid]

I would not say this is specific to a ship. I have seen this many a time, easy street for an hour then bam! Some super NPC or other trigger and the group is all over you. No escape. Saying that I have found the same in interdictions and general NPC interactions, so to me it seems like there is some roll of the dice that generates a NPC ship more akin to the older AI. I normally dont have time to check out the module config on the NPC ship, but assume that they have something powerful weapon wise. For me it is not normally the powerplant but the thrusters that are targetted, leaving me drifting off into space with no options.

At any rate, I think there could be some more balancing here. It is too easy 99% of the time, and then there is the 1% that is way way too hard.

 

[Cmdr Hobgoblin]

Engineering your ship would certainly help with survivability but it's not strictly necessary.

The thing with combat zones is that over time the battle will ebb and flow. You have to remember that they're not supposed to be a farming scenario, res sites provide that experience, combat zones are basically a pitched battle in space as part of some grubby little war.

What you described is accurate for sure, in that at times you will find your side has the upper hand and then the tide will turn. I was last in one a few days back and at one point I had about 12 allied ships around me and we were fighting two enemies. Five minutes later it was 10 vs 10 because a new group of enemy ships appeared and since five of them were pretty close together they rinsed a few of the friendlies immediately on arrival with focused fire. CZs usually end up spread out across about 10k of space and you'll find pockets of friendlies and pockets of enemies, the key is keeping a close eye on your radar and if you notice that you're becoming surrounded with reds or have four of them screaming in towards you, be prepared to either boost away to some friendlies or boost clear of the CZ completely. Usually if you boost out you will find one of the enemies follows you, especially if you were shooting at it but you can just kite them away from their friends, kill them, regen your shields and then look for a group of friendlies to head towards when you want to rejoin the fight.

In short I agree completely with your observation of how things can go but I don't see it as a problem personally, it's part of the intended experience.

I do what you are saying, but I deem it as unfair when suddenly 5 or more Enemies turn towards you and you don't even have enough time to run and that in the fastest ship in the game.
Granted, I only had D rated Thrusters until an hour ago, since I didn't find A rated until now, but I was still able to make 360 with boost. And I only got 1 boost before I popped.
I work from the outer borders of a CZ towards the big crowd, engaging enemies carefully. I don't know what else to do against such sudden deaths, than to boost away or try to jump to another systems.
But in most cases, when this happens, I am dead before the FSD is charged. My rebuy cost is 1.2 million, that is more than I get for missions and vouchers in one hour.

Hmm, they could be sniping your powerplant. I can't remember how fragile that is on the Vulture, but that's the only explanation if your hull was above 80%

A friend suggested it might be the Plasma Accelerator, since it got buffed a lot, but NPC are still using it also a lot.

 

[Morbad]

I lost my shield, at 8X% Armor, everything went out and my ship exploded a few seconds later. Just like that. I have a Vulture at 1500 Armor, that should not happen at 8X%.
I think it was 89%, could be a little less, but around that. This happened 2x today.

This is not particularly unusual.

The Vulture's power plant can be cored out from directly behind the ship, by shooting between the drives.

A lot of armor and a comparatively low integrity power plant make this a frequent way to lose a Vulture if you aren't aware of the location of your subsystems and how to fly to protect them.

 

[Cmdr Hobgoblin]

The 1 major flaw that the vulture has is its powerplant placement, when you target a vulture without targetting modules your crosshairs basically sit right where the power plant sits .. if you have 89% armour when you exploded then it sounds most certainly like you had been powerplant sniped ... the module armour should help with this but it is a glaring weakness with the vulture sadly, still an awaome little ship though.

I just changed my loadout and fitted one, but I still think that the aggro is a bit too random in those zones.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but again, RES are way easier and way more profitable.
Especially with those events like today and 2 weeks ago when I got the game.

Basically this:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vul...72500.AwRj4yKA.MwBjEZJSCZZsig==.&bn=MyVulture

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Hopefully now with the new military module slot and a MRP or two will make the Vulture a bit less vulnerable when its shields go down.

 

[Cmdr Hobgoblin]

Hopefully now with the new military module slot and a MRP or two will make the Vulture a bit less vulnerable when its shields go down.

It is not only about the Vulture though, but in general the CZ.
While those suggestions all make the Vulture a bit tougher with the new modules, one is still left with an unpredictable activity, that can make you lose your ship really fast and does not pay well, compared to other activities.
So let's not make " buff Vulture!!" thread out of this.

 

[Morbad]

While those suggestions all make the Vulture a bit tougher with the new modules, one is still left with an unpredictable activity, that can make you lose your ship really fast and does not pay well, compared to other activities.

One of the few redeeming qualities of Conflict Zones.

If you want steady, reliable, and risk free income, war is probably not what one should be looking for.

 

[Red Anders]

I do what you are saying, but I deem it as unfair when suddenly 5 or more Enemies turn towards you and you don't even have enough time to run and that in the fastest ship in the game.
Granted, I only had D rated Thrusters until an hour ago, since I didn't find A rated until now, but I was still able to make 360 with boost. And I only got 1 boost before I popped.
I work from the outer borders of a CZ towards the big crowd, engaging enemies carefully. I don't know what else to do against such sudden deaths, than to boost away or try to jump to another systems.
But in most cases, when this happens, I am dead before the FSD is charged. My rebuy cost is 1.2 million, that is more than I get for missions and vouchers in one hour.




A friend suggested it might be the Plasma Accelerator, since it got buffed a lot, but NPC are still using it also a lot.

Truthfully, my vulture is fully engineered and I have over 1,800 hours playing the game. Last time I took it into a CZ I managed to get out with about 35% hull and it had been turned into a convertible. Doesn't happen to me often but it does happen. Personally I like that the game can still do that to me occasionally but I can appreciate that it's probably more frustrating when you're not sat on the credits for about 500 rebuys.

- - - Updated - - -

I just changed my loadout and fitted one, but I still think that the aggro is a bit too random in those zones.
I don't want to beat a dead horse, but again, RES are way easier and way more profitable.
Especially with those events like today and 2 weeks ago when I got the game.

Basically this:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vul...72500.AwRj4yKA.MwBjEZJSCZZsig==.&bn=MyVulture

First thing I'd do with that for a CZ is take the KWS off and stick a 0D shield booster on instead. Nothing in a CZ needs scanning and it's another 8% on your shields.

 

[Cmdr Hobgoblin]

Truthfully, my vulture is fully engineered and I have over 1,800 hours playing the game. Last time I took it into a CZ I managed to get out with about 35% hull and it had been turned into a convertible. Doesn't happen to me often but it does happen. Personally I like that the game can still do that to me occasionally but I can appreciate that it's probably more frustrating when you're not sat on the credits for about 500 rebuys.

First thing I'd do with that for a CZ is take the KWS off and stick a 0D shield booster on instead. Nothing in a CZ needs scanning and it's another 8% on your shields.

First, thanks for understanding the issue.
I would need to swap the KWS in and out then though, because I am also doing the Community Goal at the same time.
I was just deciding to do the War in that Area, since I got a good mission for 1.6 mil while glancing over the mission board before signing up for the CG Bounty Hunt.
And despite all the issues, it is more fun than Bounty Hunting.
However, that profit is now void because of the losses .

One of the few redeeming qualities of Conflict Zones.

If you want steady, reliable, and risk free income, war is probably not what one should be looking for.

Do you have to do that? Be that negative and put me down for no reason? I think I made a level headed and factual post. You don't need to exaggerate.
I mean, there is a risk free income that pays a lot more. I go into War Zones to experience actual combat, but I still want a fair chance instead of dropping in and out until I actually have a chance.
Ever hard of risk <-> reward?

 

[Ziljan]

CZ aggro is based on heat generation, DPS, and the size of your ship. 137h played isn't nothing, but I doubt very much that in that time you have gained the situational awareness to know when to keep your heat signature small, and when it's OK to open up and let her rip.

You also should work on making sure all of the red triangles in your immediate area are next to an equal or greater number of green triangles. Otherwise you stand a high chance of getting swarmed if you are in a medium or large ship.

That kind of situational awareness and heat mechanic know how usually develops naturally at over 1370h played.

 

[GMANTOR]

CZ aggro is based on heat generation, DPS, and the size of your ship. 137h played isn't nothing, but I doubt very much that in that time you have gained the situational awareness to know when to keep your heat signature small, and when it's OK to open up and let her rip.

You also should work on making sure all of the red triangles in your immediate area are next to an equal or greater number of green triangles. Otherwise you stand a high chance of getting swarmed if you are in a medium or large ship.

That kind of situational awareness and heat mechanic know how usually develops naturally at over 1370h played.

Exactly this. I have recently done an entire rank up from master to dangerous in a heavily engineered python with all the trimmings and 3 times I ran for my life when suddenly 12 ships are firing at me. You definitely need to be aware of the times when your side is winning and the times when the enemy have the greater numbers. Sometimes you see a sudden lump of red coming toward you and this is a sign to back off to the edge of the fight. Also when you get into a CZ you usually start in the middle so you should fly a bit to the side to start with and load up a high wake system so you have a quick hyperspace out if you do get jumped. Even with my ship I like the feeling that if I'm not careful I can die, not much fun shooting fish in a barrel although sometimes CZ's are a bit like that. Its nice to have a ship that has a chance of survival when hit by 6+ ships but in the smaller craft you have to be prepared to take a hit occasionally.