Confused re: incendiary multicannon effect - all thermal, no kinetic?

[jacozilla]

I've used G1-5 engineer mods but so far none of the special effect ones. Finally got around to use a favor and make G5 overcharged multicannon with incendiary rounds.

However, question I'm confused on - I'm looking at the OC Incendiary multicannon in weapon view card, and the description now says 'damage type' = thermal. Default kinetic, now thermal.

The verbose engineer pre-rolling description said would turn a 'large proportion' into thermal dmg, so I thought it just added extra or proportionate thermal dmg in the increase from base dmg to new extra modified dmg.

But looking at the actual weapon view card, it seems to be black and white - incendiary rounds = thermal.

So my question is - does this mean an overcharged incendiary MC = thermal = bad on hull dmg?

Basically, it will still be good because obviously it is doing more flat dmg than a non-overcharged weapon - but is this just turning an overcharged MC into an overcharged laser?

I initially thought I'd just run all incendiary multicannons, but if it is now pure thermal dmg, that would leave me weak on inflicting hull dmg, so would need balance in terms of substituting some kinetic weapons. Or are OC Incendiary MCs so good, it doesn't matter?

Stopped at just making (1) for now to see what forum has to say about this. Have enough mats to fully equip my Anaconda with (5) G5 OC multicannons but holding off for now.

 

[Spenceuk99]

Cant give you a definitive answer, but I run a combination of corrosive and incendiary rounds on my MC's. They seem a good combo.

 

[Draxxen]

I have noticed the same description change. I am running incendiary on 2 huge and 1 large MC on my Corvette, and have to admit there is no problems melting away hull with them, even if damage type would be all thermal.

However you should be aware that dps on incendiary modified overcharged MC's is lower than if you had just overcharged them. The special effect got nerfed a couple patches back. So my lower end MC's have no special effects just to maximize dps potential.
The all-MC hardpoint build pack more than enough punch; And the low power and distributor draw allows for more pips distributed to shields, increasing survivability through the roof

 

[VR Nupol]

I am running 3x G5 OC Multis 50%/52%/55% DPS increase with incendiary rounds and 2x modded railguns on a Python. Ship gets pretty hot and i dont even have to use the railguns to bring down a shield. I am gonna switch to a incendiary / corrosive combo if I come back to the bubble. All I can say even with pure incendiary rounds the damage output is insane even to hull. If you fly close and focus a powerplant it is down in seconds.

 

[Mohrgan]

See if this Table has the information you are looking for: Side effects of weapon special effects: complete table

 

[Hooplah]

As I see it (watching A LOT of YouTube videos) incendiary adds thermal qualities for damaging shields to a multi-cannon but it doesn't make it a laser. Corrosive adds more hull penetration including multiple module damage. Put them together with some skills and NPCs at least are probably going to get boring! Not so much for PvP as everyone is gearing up. Imagine great combat skills with fixed weapons versus using gimbaled or turreted multi-cannons. Rail guns with the Long Range and the Plasma Slug option can pretty much have unlimited rounds now as they use fuel to replenish the ammo after the clip is exhausted.

With the Engineers it is a whole new world personally designing your ship for the most enjoyment in the game. I dry docked my A rated and slightly engineered Cutter for the moment as I'm having too much fun playing around with two Pythons for trading and combat. But that is just me with an Imp Courier, Vulture, FAS style of play and totally loving my new options. Your results may vary but then that is the beauty of engineering your ship. Way too much fun!

 

[SCSkunk]

Incendiary Rounds were recently adjusted, as they were too good. Now they sacrifice Kinetic Damage to increase Thermal Damage, instead of having the best of both worlds. But they are still effective, just less than they were. Because they were OP. (Forum Bingo, anyone? lol)

 

[RhymeRhyme]

I am running 3x G5 OC Multis 50%/52%/55% DPS increase with incendiary rounds and 2x modded railguns on a Python. Ship gets pretty hot and i dont even have to use the railguns to bring down a shield. I am gonna switch to a incendiary / corrosive combo if I come back to the bubble. All I can say even with pure incendiary rounds the damage output is insane even to hull. If you fly close and focus a powerplant it is down in seconds.

What mod did you use for the Rail Guns?

 

[Starstrydur]

I have seen stats that say incendiary rounds do all thermal but that does not seem to be the case in game, even with the big dps drop. I have moved away from this special due to heat and noticeable kinetic loss.

 

[jacozilla]

I didn't pay attention or notice the change re: special effect rounds in the update. Thanks for the heads up.

Guess I will roll an OC MC with no special effects so I can compare the weapon card info on it vs the incendiary one I have and compare the difference in raw dmg.

Right now, safest assumption seems to be just go with what the card says until proven or stated by FD otherwise - which means incendiary = thermal. Which means since I'd prefer both thermal and kinetic dmg, running my usual MC + pulse lasers would end up with all thermal dmg if I made the MC all incendiary effect.

As I have mats for (5), going to roll 2 OC no effect, 2 OC + incendiary, and 1 OC + corrosive. From what I can read, corrosive doesn't seem to stack - so just 1 weapon to apply the corrosion seems good enough.

Note- from the comments re: heat due to use of incendiary, will have to test that out and if it adds too much guess I can adjust build. Good thing about having a mini fleet is there's always someone to take the hand me downs.

 

[jacozilla]

See if this Table has the information you are looking for: Side effects of weapon special effects: complete table

Bookmarked. An excellent table.

The 200% heat increase on incendiary doesn't look very attractive. Guess I'll have to test and see what happens.

I ended up rolling (6) G5 MCs for my Anaconda with 3 OC incendiary (huge + 2 Large), 1 large rapid fire corrosion, and 2 med rapid fire no effect. With the tiny C1 pulse lasers that gives me hefty thermal from the incendiary MCs, corrosion debuff from the rapid fire which has such fast reloading the smaller mag size from corrosion has nil effect, and balanced kinetic from the large corrosion MC + 2 med rapid fire MCs.

I would have made the medium rapid fire as overcharged but ran out of OC mats.

Will have to go test this under burst (1 npc interdiction) and sustained combat engagements (CZ).

 

[VR Nupol]

What mod did you use for the Rail Guns?

G3 Sturdy mount but i want to upgrade to G5 Sturdy mount with Plasma Slug.

 

[Jankules]

Inc mc is thermal-kinetic mod from mc default which is only kinetic,means your mc is doing partial thermal damage effective vs shields but not effective as lasers.Now,modding at least 1 corrosive you have serious buff to inc. heating hull,they have serious kinetic damage during corrosive effect

 

[Washi]

Inc mc is thermal-kinetic mod from mc default which is only kinetic,means your mc is doing partial thermal damage effective vs shields but not effective as lasers.Now,modding at least 1 corrosive you have serious buff to inc. heating hull,they have serious kinetic damage during corrosive effect

Guys please stop spreading misinformation.
Incendiary is FULL THERMAL. There is no kinetic component involved. It's like this for a few patches already.

 

[jacozilla]

See if this Table has the information you are looking for: Side effects of weapon special effects: complete table

From some player comments the perception seems to be incendiary rounds had a 'large' dmg decrease due to it being too good.

But unless I'm reading this table wrong - the only dps reduction is 5% + whatever overall dmg loss from 5% slower rate of fire.

I don't think it is linear, so 5% slower RoF does not equal 5% loss of dps, but as swag let's say couple percent. Is ~7% reduction considered a big reduction?

From my perspective, if incendiary OC MCs did both kinetic and thermal, it would be no brainer trade off for +thermal for the modest 7% less than a no-effect OC MC. But since it is all thermal, seems like it is basically turning a high dmg MC into a still high dmg but slightly less 'laser' version

If you want thermal dmg, I'm not sure why one would run incendiary MC? Why not just run the full dmg OC MC with no effect plus a couple OC pulse lasers? (Or whatever OC laser type preferred - burst, beam).

From a fun pov, totally get why all incendiary MC setup. From a dmg balance pov, using all incendiary MC seems like might as well use all lasers. The only factor I can think of but can't quantify is if the incendiary OC MCs, despite being all thermal, has more advantage overall because the flat dmg is still high and distributor draw is lower enough than all OC lasers that dps is better.

I have tried my anaconda with just 3 OC incendiary MCs and on some single npc engagements I get a heat alert, so that 200% more heat from incendiary rounds is definitely felt. I think once I rebuild my mats supply I will roll off the incendiary and just use no effect OC MC plus one corrosion for the debuff.

 

[tomalus]

incendiary converts all damage to thermal, it used to be diffirent before but not anymore.

They are still superior to lasers for thermal dmg, if you dont mind the reloading times&limited ammo.

 

[XW_Ziggy]

Incendary rounds now change from kinetic to thermal, 100% and there's a 5% dps loss because one of the side effects is a reduced fire rate.

There are reasons why you'd want incendiary MCs instead of lasers though:

1) Range: Lasers have damage falloff from 600m to 3km. At 1.5km range, your lasers are doing barely more than half damage. MC's are 4km weapons doing full damage out to 2km.

2) Target leading: Say you want to run fixed weapons with a mix of lasers and kinetic rounds. You can't fire them both at a moving target simultaneously because the lasers need to point AT the target and the MCs need to point AHEAD of the target. Incendiary rounds give you 100% thermal damage for melting shields whilst using the same target leading aimpoint as all your regular MCs. A regular kinetic multicannon does 60% damage to shields whilst an incendiary multicannon does 120% to shields (before engineering resists come into play).

3) Distributor draw: A G5 overcharged incendiary MC still has higher damage per point of WEP draw than even a G5 efficient mod on pulse lasers. It's the cheapest way to squeeze sustained thermal damage out of your weapon capacitors.

 

[Truesilver]

Guys please stop spreading misinformation.
Incendiary is FULL THERMAL. There is no kinetic component involved. It's like this for a few patches already.

This is correct.

Incendiary originally changed the damage from 100% kinetic to 100% thermal plus 20% kinetic, i.e. 120% total.

Since 2.3.01 it has changed 100% kinetic to 95% thermal, with the 'missing' 5% being lost.

 

[Jankules]

Thermal/kinetic,or just thermal,whatever you put on paper with new patch,my feeling and impressions on the field is folowing: they(still) do enormous damage to hull(shieldless ship) even on heavy modded armor(have good armor piercing damage),which is antypical for laser(thermal) weapons,BUT,if corrosive effect is applied before inc rounds lay down on hull.

 

[Faybs]

Would the combat experts here agree then that a good weapon combo for an explorer looking to be decently armed but reducing weight, would be one multicannon with corrosive and one with thermal?