Confusion about RES Sites, AI Spawns, - DEV PLEASE ANSWER

[MVP_Bluntman]

I've been looking for an answer all morning, can't seem to really establish one, slowly to a point where my face is about to collide with a table. If a dev could answer this, this would certainly clear up alot of confusion.


RES Sites, Intensity, Security Level in System Before and After Power's influence. Explain how these could tie into a better AI Spawn. From what I have noticed was very distinct situations, small fodder, or big fodder, but the chances of getting big fodder is that of constantly having to reset an instance, in a high population system? I think?

Basically no-one knows, now that RES Sites have been fixed, noone can seem to clarify this. Like I said I've been trying for an answer for a long time now, even flipping through multiple High Intensity RES Sites and so on and so forth just to find my own answer and i can't even establish one because multiple systems identical to the one I actually found back to back spawns of big fodder, i found nothing but failure in the same case.

 

[random_tangent]

+1. The randomness of this really saps the fun out of the game for me. I posted in the other thread that this is more or less impossible for us to reverse engineer in any practical amount of time. It requires a controlled experiment, which would be extremely hard to do. There is no reason not to tell people how they should interpret the various system properties in the context of the likelihood of decent pirates spawns. To not do so just condemns us to a frustrating, trial-and-error exercise with no end in sight. It is particularly annoying if you're short on time. You can spend half your weekly gaming time just flying about aimlessly, searching for somewhere decent to make a few credits and experience some exhilarating combat.

 

[Frop]

I've been looking for an answer all morning (...) Like I said I've been trying for an answer for a long time now

I feel your pain.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

I'm just going to keep making thread's until we get a proper answer, cause this is just god-damned ridiculous. I mean i hear that Security level affects it? Apparently it doesn't. Does Population Affect it? who knows. Or is it entirely just an RNG that decides to put AI rank on scale with your rank. Don't know that either.

 

[Matt]

Perhaps it really is just random, and there is nothing to reverse engineer apart from a random number generator?

I suspect FD are unlikely to tell us - they've not even told us the algorithm for rank progression yet (not that this is a criticism)

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

idk I would like an all signs point to yes, but I will continue to raise hell because eventually I gotta get an answer.

 

[random_tangent]

Perhaps it really is just random, and there is nothing to reverse engineer apart from a random number generator?

I suspect FD are unlikely to tell us - they've not even told us the algorithm for rank progression yet (not that this is a criticism)

Perhaps. If there were nothing to influence it though, I would have expected RES to be a lot more consistent. Why introduce a completely random mechanic like that which can only be defeated by logging off/on? It seems designed to frustrate players. Plus, prior to 1.3, I had some systems which would spawn large ships within 1 or 2 re-rolls, whereas others would never spawn larger ships even after 30 minutes of constant re-logging. There must be more to it.

 

[Matt]

Does the answer matter though? If they told us exactly how it worked, it might just change as they fiddle with the balancing or release a new patch anyway. And even if you did know exactly how it worked, all that would happen is people would "play the system" to permanently get the best opponents which would not really be much of a game and basically turn it down into a cookie clicker type game.

Embrace the randomness I say! Have fun!

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

There has to be, some systems don't even spawn bigger fodder even after that many resets I've even attempted, I've attempted 45 minutes just resetting in one low security low population system and I continuously received Vipers as the highest bounties, and below.

- - - Updated - - -

Does the answer matter though? If they told us exactly how it worked, it might just change as they fiddle with the balancing or release a new patch anyway. And even if you did know exactly how it worked, all that would happen is people would "play the system" to permanently get the best opponents which would not really be much of a game and basically turn it down into a cookie clicker type game.

Embrace the randomness I say! Have fun!

Uh yes because Powerplay Cycle's are only a week long. We don't have time too fool around with testing for variables and getting proper answers when we can ask the dev to answer them for us.

 

[Matt]

I think the fact that you are logging in and out for 45 minutes straight is just further evidence that Frontier should NOT reveal the secret sauce and let people exploit it to get the best spawns. Its not in the spirit of the game.

Sorry its not working out for you, but if you're going to those lengths you have to ask yourself, is it worth it? Its just a game.

 

[Dogeh]

It has changed with the update, though.
I have been doing Crime Sweeps in Dvorsi and up until yesterday, there were mostly Eagles and Vipers at Mostly Harmless level.
Last night, I had a blast with the Elite Anacondas and Dangerous Pythons. Pretty much every craft was a level higher than Competent.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

Uh Im sorry, but if I profusely test out RES Sites just to figure out what the hell is going on with AI Spawns and I still can't figure out what's going on, Its just going to send me on my way from Hudson, because Bounties are pointless unless you know what your hunting there buddy.

So you can keep saying how you like randomness, but there's some of us who want an answer on a RNG Equation they got going on. Especially if it relates to Security Presence of some systems.

 

[Matt]

It has changed with the update, though.
I have been doing Crime Sweeps in Dvorsi and up until yesterday, there were mostly Eagles and Vipers at Mostly Harmless level.
Last night, I had a blast with the Elite Anacondas and Dangerous Pythons. Pretty much every craft was a level higher than Competent.

Yeah there was a problem with harmless or mostly harmless getting spawned all the time I think - it was fixed in a patch issued in 1.3.04 I think. (which makes be believe that the RES spawn rate is determined by code on the client, and not by the servers which would rule out a bunch of theories about background simulation controlling it if that was the case)

 

[jgm]

GLENDOWER: I can call spirits from the vasty deep.
HOTSPUR: Why, so can I, or so can any man; But will they come when you do call for them?

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

Well in my adventure to scout systems for RES sites, most systems all ranging appear to give small fodder, the only one I have consistently got big fodder in was Zaragas, this was in a range of instance resets of 5-10 attempts this morning and a few last night, last night I spent my time in anarchy systems and noticed worse spawns even after 20 or so attempts. High Security threw more security than it did Wanted Ships, and more small fodder than a single dropship in one reset. So i believe there is no qualifiable answer, because we do not have one. However the reason why I am asking, is because the Elite Dangerous Wiki, is outdated, someone could go there for a way to look for RES sites, and end up going to an Inefficient site because their in a big craft looking for big targets not, a random numerical number just tossing pointless fodder that you can take out in the matter of seconds.

 

[random_tangent]

Does the answer matter though? If they told us exactly how it worked, it might just change as they fiddle with the balancing or release a new patch anyway. And even if you did know exactly how it worked, all that would happen is people would "play the system" to permanently get the best opponents which would not really be much of a game and basically turn it down into a cookie clicker type game.

Embrace the randomness I say! Have fun!

But that is exactly my point. Randomness is not good game design. It's an alternative to good game design. Indeed, if it were so simple as just "go here for the best spawns" everyone would do it. That's why it needs to be difficult when you get there, and risky, such that "going there" for the best spawns might mean you lose your ship. It should be a calculated risk. That means gamers can actually make a logical choice. At the moment, tougher ship spawns are impossible to predict. There is no risk/reward at work. It's just pot luck, or at least feels that way. Either make it random, and tell players it's random, or make it vary with some system properties, and tell players how to locate the good ones, but make it dangerous, so they can make an informed choice. Give players a framework they can make decisions within.

 

[MVP_Bluntman]

Time is money, money is time, FDev should answer this because CZ's put out constant assortments of ships, Military Strikes as well, the only one that doesn't do this is RES sites, and we can't figure out why, or how to get around this. It either consistently spawns out small fodder and just small fodder, or in small cases mixes in Small Fodder with Big Fodder which is the ideal spawn that we want.

 

[random_tangent]

Time is money, money is time, FDev should answer this because CZ's put out constant assortments of ships, Military Strikes as well, the only one that doesn't do this is RES sites, and we can't figure out why, or how to get around this. It either consistently spawns out small fodder and just small fodder, or in small cases mixes in Small Fodder with Big Fodder which is the ideal spawn that we want.

In an ideal world I think RES sites should be completely redesigned to feel like genuine industrial sites, with valuable infrastructure and large scale mining operations, befitting their status as targets for pirate activity. In the mean time, they should give us some clue of what influences the sort of ships we're likely to encounter. It's not about just farming the best sites for creds. It's about knowing what you're going to get out of the game on any given play through. I also think this would AID immersion for people. It would make it feel more like something influenced by the in-game system status, and less like something controlled by an algorithm we're trying to figure out. Imagine if it were, say, civil war in a system which increases pirate activity. Once a conflict has resolved, a bounty hunter looking for targets might move on to less secure regions to ply his trade. That sort of in-universe logical decision making feels a lot more immersive than "how can i figure out how to get this random number generator to spit out decent values!"