Constructive Coexistence Discussion

[Brysett]

Constructive Coexistence Discussion.

I see a lot of discussions going (kinda) bad at the moment. Discussions where, on one hand, non-combat oriented people complain about the game being too harsh, and on the other side, combat oriented people liking the harder tone of the game after 2.1, and both often trying to tell the other part that "My way is the right way".

I happen to think that, in a big universe like this, there should be room for both playstyles.
How? I don't know. That is what this thread is for.

If you have ideas how both camps can coexist in this game, please post them in this thread.

What this thread is NOT for is bashing on each other or other peoples ideas. Please no "I won't do this or that", no "You should do this or that".
If you dislike an idea, then please be constructive in your critique and tell what you would like to see different from that idea or why you think it wouldn't work. If all you have to say is "No" then you are not working towards coexistens and it would be better if you don't say anything at all.
Also, please, no asking people to adapt to your prefered playstyle. Yes, in the end someone or everyone might have to adapt a little, but that is not what this thread is about.

Please stay on topic.

 

[Vingtetun]

It is already the case that the danger scales based on your choices.

Go to a high sec system for trading. Safe as houses.
Low sec anarchy? Tough.
Go to low level USS if you are on your own. Or go to a Threat 4 one if you are in a tooled up wing.
Haz res for tough types. Low res for those that want it.
High intensity combat zones for war wings. Low intensity for solo players.
High level high payout missions have high danger. The payout scales with the likelihood of dying.

It is all there already if people take the time to tailor what they do.

 

[Siranui]

Stop making our encounters 'level-based' and so dynamic based on our own Rating. Of course, you'll then risk being ganked by an Elite while you're mostly harmless, but c'est la vie! Although I'd like to see this, I expect it would still cause consternation.

OR

Make safe areas safer, so that if you want to mine or shuttle around -say- Sol, you can do it with relative impunity. Maybe lower profits on 'safe' routes, but that's the price of all those GalCop patrols!

Now I *think* the second option has been implemented, based on my own perception. However, it's not well conveyed. A 'system status' box on our dashboard would be a visible reminder to those who have strayed off safer paths.

OR

NPC wingmen for rent

...Which of course is coming next update and well in hand.

 

[CMNDRMK]

NPC wingmen for rent is the logical choice for building a consistent universe where non combat based traders want to trade high value goods in high danger systems.

 

[Siranui]

I believe the 'new' security levels are a good solution: It's how we did it back in the original and worked fine, then. However, I don't think people are particularly good at checking in advance where they're going. It would be good if that information was more obvious and accessible.

 

[CMDR Dumbfries]

NPC wingmen for rent is the logical choice for building a consistent universe where non combat based traders want to trade high value goods in high danger systems.

This is a great idea and something that should have been a feature a long time ago. Instead, we have CQC, power play and creepy looking faces on the mission board.

 

[babelfisch]

Both camps need to realise that they are wrong. Everyone's experiences are subjective and influenced by different ships, playstyles, ranks, skill levels, and bugs. In my opinion high level NPCs aren't too strong and low level NPCs aren't too easy, they are just about right. The frequency of high level encounters for non combat players just seems to be too high. It isn't fun if you are getting interdicted by Elite Anacondas 30 times per hour if you have no interest to fight them. We need to find out why this is happening to some CMDRs and tell FDEV which aspects seem to be broken, not the game is broken, nerf AI or I'll leave the game. Accept that the AI isn't too hard, you are just encountering the hard AI too often. And some combat players need to understand that the game really is unplayable for those suffering from bugs or overpowered NPC spawns.

 

[kofeyh]

It is all there already if people take the time to tailor what they do.

This, in a nut-shell. Frontier have an incredible challenge to bring the AI into a more realistic frame of operation. And I believe a little patience and seeking better AI, not less competent, will be rewarded; both now and in the future; relegating AI to ineffectual bystanders is no more the solution than fascist hit squads are.

I'm not sure commanders are really in the best place to drive that; test? Sure. Help? Definately. Drive change? Hell no. Too many cooks, etc. I believe the AI can align better, be more contextually relevant; without sacrificing a difficulty curve.

There is a balance; but that means everyone gets to compromise. We won't all be happy, but it will be workable.

 

[mpfj]

The gameplay environment is *already* setup to allow either easy / non-confrontational or full-on / combat mode. You basically can stick to "safe" high security systems (for easy trade grinding, etc), or "hostile" anarchy system (for bounty hunting, assassinations, etc) ... or anywhere in between as suites your frame of mind.

The only thing preventing this from working correctly at the moment is that in high security systems, the cops don't seem to actually do anything meaningful.

So if I'm in a high security system, there should be lots of cops flying around, and very few WANTED pilots (any that do appear should get dealt with swiftly by the security forces).

The further you stray from shipping lanes, or the lower the security rating of a system, then the cops should drop off and the pirates / etc should ramp up.

That would allow safe harbour for newbies / non-combat players all the way up to HAZRES sites where you're completely on your own.

 

[mbar]

CZ and RES level well. If you've been doing High RES prior to 2.1 then go to a Low Res for awhile. Same with CZ.

If doing missions, don't stack so many until you get used to how they work now.

 

[deathcoy]

Both camps need to realise that they are wrong. Everyone's experiences are subjective and influenced by different ships, playstyles, ranks, skill levels, and bugs. In my opinion high level NPCs aren't too strong and low level NPCs aren't too easy, they are just about right. The frequency of high level encounters for non combat players just seems to be too high. It isn't fun if you are getting interdicted by Elite Anacondas 30 times per hour if you have no interest to fight them. We need to find out why this is happening to some CMDRs and tell FDEV which aspects seem to be broken, not the game is broken, nerf AI or I'll leave the game. Accept that the AI isn't too hard, you are just encountering the hard AI too often. And some combat players need to understand that the game really is unplayable for those suffering from bugs or overpowered NPC spawns.

+1, this...

 

[bitstorm]

Well I dunno I'd say dividing people into camps isn't the best way to start.

I mean there may be non-combat players who approve of the changes, and combat players who disapprove.

I think the question really is why people might disapprove and the answer seems to be because they die.

But the thing is there are alternative ways "not to die" beyond making the game easier. I mean sorry but from the videos I've seen so far it's either been death due to clear bugs (which I'd say are outside the realms of this discussion) or folk going into a panic and not even doing the bare minimum to escape. You see someone complaining about NPCs being too hard and if when you check the footage you see them 2 pipping shields and not even using the chaff they're carrying what are you supposed to say.

 

[Vorxian]

The true answer is that they cannot really coexist at all in game reality..

Take WoW, Blizzard knows this as well. They have separate servers, they have to keep the far end of PvE and PvP player base separate. They're not compatible.

The ones in the middle have a PvP server. EVEN then there are sanctions. Homelands have PvP off to opposing players until fired upon for example. This keeps places civilised.

EvE is different, it pits everyone together in the same 'world', and as such check out their forums; they have equally a hard time regarding PvP and PvE clashing.

 

[Brysett]

Lots of nice input so far (IMHO). Thanks guys

So (correct me if I'm wrong).


Rentable NPC wingmen for when you "just have to" go into high risk areas. (I know. You don't "have to", but there is that nice trade ect.)

Better marking of the security level of an area. (I like it. As long as it's not big flashing letters on the middle of your screen like "Warning Warning, Entering Low Security Area", but I'm sure the developers could come up with something acceptable.)

And perhaps the most important one : Bugfixes!

 

[The Wallet Inspector]

People coexist fine right now. Unless you seek an unattainable level of balance. The right way to play is the way you play, as long as the devs don't consider it an unbalanced exploit I am fairly certain it is their intention we "co-exist" non-peacefully in a dangerous universe where people can attack others whenever they want. I've played all week in a Type 9, an Asp, an Anaconda and an FDL, and have had no hassle from the many scores of players. Sorry if you don't like this response (you spent a lot of your OP telling people how you would like them to respond). Besides all this, there are numerous options available to commanders to customize their craft in a manner which allows them to deal with the dangers present in the game. My biggest issues with the game right now are irritation due to the manner in which NPC encounters take place, and missions are randomly redirected. Personally, I have never had another problem with other players or the danger levels (maybe last week, but that's fixed now).

 

[Vingtetun]

I think the point is that not all parts of the game are accessible to all people and rightly so.

Solo players have missions and environments that are challenging for people on their own. These scale such that top notch players could maybe take on content aimed at pairs or larger wings.

Obviously, for people who like PwP gaming, something like a +++ base is a good challenge now and not to be undertaken alone.

If you remember back to 1984, you could go to corporate States all day long and hardly ever see trouble. A feudal or anarchy system? You went tooled up and with your fingers crossed. Oh, and a tab bomb.

 

[Vingtetun]

So. My suggestion? Make the security level more visible. Add a 'hunted' tag where you have wanted already.

And educate the customers as to what options there are depending on skill level and how many of you there are.