Core Mechanics Expansion

[Savalis]

So exploration and mining got shiny new upgrades, but I really haven't seen much for trading or piracy this last update, Chapter 4. New modules and ships are usually nice but the cake for Chapter 4 is probably the and the new mining mechanics. I'd love to see more interesting and creative updates to core gameplay mechanics.

Introducing a stock market that can tie into both the existing trade mechanics and galnet articles would be an incredible addition. Commodity prices can already be influenced by buying and selling commodities, a stock market associated with those products adds another dimension to trading.

Another interesting idea would be updates to smuggling and piracy. Piracy is not profitable right now. Smuggling is just trading with added risks. Add a bit of creativity here. For example, a Smuggling mission type that requires drop off at a specific non-station location either orbiting a moon, or at a hidden beacon (exploration tie in?) or at a deep point of a planetside canyon in a specific spot obscured from orbit. Maybe add more SRV options in relation to these new smuggling missions, planetside.

How about hostage mechanics for Piracy? Disable the victim's ship, latch onto the victim's ship (new module or weapon, tow cable launcher) engage in some spacey Cyber warfare goodness (New minigame-ish mechanic not unlike FSS for exploration with attack and defense modes) to slave their FSD to yours (after hacking successful), and jump to the nearest anarchy system. New modules and engineering options related to cyber warfare too maybe?

Added options for holding onto the victim for ransom (from the player, their Squadron, their wing, etc) and selling their Ship at a lower margin would be very interesting. The same tow module could be incorporated into other gameplay as well. Fuel Rats would likely love "Towing" a stranded ship to the nearest fuel scoopable star. Added multicrew mechanics for aiming and firing the tow cables. The same code could be tweaked and reused for boarding action when we finally get space legs, firing a transport tube that breaches the other ship.

I love this game. I've been playing since the beta and gamma days. I've been really impressed with the last update. It's a great step in the right direction, but to allow players to drive their personal narrative, the number of unique choices available to the player needs to increase. If any of these ideas are used for future updates, it'll make my year. If not, then that's okay too. Excited to see what's around the corner.

 

[moorison]

Ignoring the effects on the BGS then yes, smuggling missions are just a bit more involved trading missions (arguably not on par with trading missions even, since there is no depot feature). I am not saying that the missions shouldn't be constantly evaluated and iterated upon, but I don't agree with this feedback.
That being said, it seems that gameplay changes are in favor of the legal side for the most part, even with the addition of robbing megaship or installations.
I don't see something more powerful than the supercruise interdiction being added. And while capturing "real" escape pods might be fun to roleplay with, it would be mostly boring for the hostage, having no way to interact besides maybe chatting. NPCs can't complain however.

 

[varonica]

How about hostage mechanics for Piracy? Disable the victim's ship, latch onto the victim's ship (new module or weapon, tow cable launcher) engage in some spacey Cyber warfare goodness (New minigame-ish mechanic not unlike FSS for exploration with attack and defense modes) to slave their FSD to yours (after hacking successful), and jump to the nearest anarchy system. New modules and engineering options related to cyber warfare too maybe?

Added options for holding onto the victim for ransom (from the player, their Squadron, their wing, etc) and selling their Ship at a lower margin would be very interesting. The same tow module could be incorporated into other gameplay as well. Fuel Rats would likely love "Towing" a stranded ship to the nearest fuel scoopable star. Added multicrew mechanics for aiming and firing the tow cables. The same code could be tweaked and reused for boarding action when we finally get space legs, firing a transport tube that breaches the other ship.

At frst I thought you were just talking about NPC pirating, but then you started on about hostages and ransom, from players, wings and squadrons. We have enough angst already from players who just want to go about thier own business and not be attacked and forced to be some PvP mad players content, and now you want to give that PvP player, attacking a ship that belongs to a player who isn't interested or prepared to take part in PvP, the ability to take them "hostage" and make people pay a ransom so they can be free to go about business?

I would be all for this if there was some way, some method by which players could disengage from this mode of play altogether, a PvE flag or PvE server, but all your going to do here to create more combat logging and arguments on the forum. You can't have forced PvP content like this, it simply won't work in the kind of game Elite is, yes it might work in other games where that sort of activity is the focus of the gameplay, but then if we wanted to take part in that sort of gameplay we would play a different game.

So tell me, how exactly are you going to prevent a player disconnecting from being "hostage" content and possibly ransom reward supplier, logging in to solo and flying far away from the gank...sorry, hostage taker.

 

[metatheurgist]

So tell me, how exactly are you going to prevent a player disconnecting from being "hostage" content and possibly ransom reward supplier, logging in to solo and flying far away from the gank...sorry, hostage taker.

Ah, reminds me of the good ole days when some were fantasizing about capturing player's escape pods and holding them forever in their cargo hold (presumably in gimp suits). Don't change people, don't change.

 

[varonica]

Ah, reminds me of the good ole days when some were fantasizing about capturing player's escape pods and holding them forever in their cargo hold (presumably in gimp suits). Don't change people, don't change.

I can only say.

 

[m0rl0ck]

Judging by the number of long standing bugs, the dev team cant handle whats currently on their plate. Bugs first, features later.

 

[Savalis]

Judging by the number of long standing bugs, the dev team cant handle whats currently on their plate. Bugs first, features later.

I agree, bugs should take precedence. That being said, I'm not expecting FDev to drop what they're doing on account of my feature request forum thread. They reportedly have a roadmap with 10 years worth of development planned out since launch. It's possible that some of what I have in the opening could be in the works, who knows. Maybe some dev will see this and like some of my ideas. Maybe not.

So tell me, how exactly are you going to prevent a player disconnecting from being "hostage" content and possibly ransom reward supplier, logging in to solo and flying far away from the gank...sorry, hostage taker.

That's actually something I hadn't considered, and I appreciate you pointing that out. I'd hoped to keep my first post vague enough to start discussions like this, rip apart the idea and cross examine why it could or couldn't work.

Ignoring the effects on the BGS then yes, smuggling missions are just a bit more involved trading missions (arguably not on par with trading missions even, since there is no depot feature). I am not saying that the missions shouldn't be constantly evaluated and iterated upon, but I don't agree with this feedback.

Specifically smuggling, or...?

That being said, it seems that gameplay changes are in favor of the legal side for the most part, even with the addition of robbing megaship or installations.
I don't see something more powerful than the supercruise interdiction being added. And while capturing "real" escape pods might be fun to roleplay with, it would be mostly boring for the hostage, having no way to interact besides maybe chatting. NPCs can't complain however.

Going back to varonica's post on a hostage-Player pulling a logoffski, probably best to either not implement at all or do as an "NPC only" mechanic. I think it'd be viable if there was a function to attempt escape in some way, as we have with interdictions. This is something different I'd enjoy seeing in Elite if done right.

 

[moorison]

Specifically smuggling, or...?

I think I had issues with this "just trading missions with added risk" comment, because they have an effect besides making your client happy.
I have to admit, I am not too familiar with piracy missions, but they seem comparatively convoluted.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So exploration and mining got shiny new upgrades, but I really haven't seen much for trading or piracy this last update, Chapter 4. New modules and ships are usually nice but the cake for Chapter 4 is probably the and the new mining mechanics. I'd love to see more interesting and creative updates to core gameplay mechanics.

Introducing a stock market that can tie into both the existing trade mechanics and galnet articles would be an incredible addition. Commodity prices can already be influenced by buying and selling commodities, a stock market associated with those products adds another dimension to trading.

Another interesting idea would be updates to smuggling and piracy. Piracy is not profitable right now. Smuggling is just trading with added risks. Add a bit of creativity here. For example, a Smuggling mission type that requires drop off at a specific non-station location either orbiting a moon, or at a hidden beacon (exploration tie in?) or at a deep point of a planetside canyon in a specific spot obscured from orbit. Maybe add more SRV options in relation to these new smuggling missions, planetside.

How about hostage mechanics for Piracy? Disable the victim's ship, latch onto the victim's ship (new module or weapon, tow cable launcher) engage in some spacey Cyber warfare goodness (New minigame-ish mechanic not unlike FSS for exploration with attack and defense modes) to slave their FSD to yours (after hacking successful), and jump to the nearest anarchy system. New modules and engineering options related to cyber warfare too maybe?

Added options for holding onto the victim for ransom (from the player, their Squadron, their wing, etc) and selling their Ship at a lower margin would be very interesting. The same tow module could be incorporated into other gameplay as well. Fuel Rats would likely love "Towing" a stranded ship to the nearest fuel scoopable star. Added multicrew mechanics for aiming and firing the tow cables. The same code could be tweaked and reused for boarding action when we finally get space legs, firing a transport tube that breaches the other ship.

I love this game. I've been playing since the beta and gamma days. I've been really impressed with the last update. It's a great step in the right direction, but to allow players to drive their personal narrative, the number of unique choices available to the player needs to increase. If any of these ideas are used for future updates, it'll make my year. If not, then that's okay too. Excited to see what's around the corner.

Trading got a big unpdate to it's tools in chapter one, which are great in my view. It could of course do some more, like everything else.

I agree that piracy and smuggling could do with some love.

 

[Savalis]

I think I had issues with this "just trading missions with added risk" comment, because they have an effect besides making your client happy.
I have to admit, I am not too familiar with piracy missions, but they seem comparatively convoluted.

That's fair. When I wrote the OP, I hadn't factored BGS. Honestly, most of the illegal gameplay mechanics are really lacking in incentive. We have space SWAT now, and other high penalties for crime with the changes. If fdev has a system for allowing in-game criminal activity, reward should match the risks.

 

[CMDR Hagglebeard]

Piracy is not profitable right now.

Wrong - it's immensely profitable, but it's not worth it because it's so stupid. The basic idea is this - find a high-pop agricultural anarchy and look for miners (any vessel with a mining laser). Interdict it and you'll find lots of low-temp diamonds which sell anywhere from 200k to 1M per. Faster than Opals, but you have to sit there while an incredibly weak trade ship with no chance of survival shoots you with his stupid puny guns while you hath break him and scoop.

I like your suggestion, to a point. There should definitely mechanics for piracy beyond the hatch breaker limpet and cargo scanner. You should be able to disable NPC ships and take their full hold, if your ship can both carry all the loot, and withstand the damage - the damage that they will inflict on you before you disable them, and in most systems, the police forces. You're not going to find Private Couriers in anarchy systems

Also, while not strictly necessary, the ability to formally demand cargo from an NPC via a message to them would be fantastic. "Give me X cargo or you die". That harmless type 7 with a couple pulse lasers and a multicannon (which he couldn't figure out how to use) should not have been shooting me. He should have released his cargo.

Lastly, a better way to collect cargo, and in the case where you have to forcibly disable a trader, a better way to siphon it out. Back before the 2.2 update, you actually could disable NPCs by taking advantage of an oversight - if you destroyed an NPC's power plant, they wouldn't change their module priorities or reboot, so they were dead in the water. Then you could go to steal the cargo - but this was usually the lengthy part. I remember once finding a Type 9 completely filled (300+ tonnes) of diamonds. That was a mighty haul, but it took more than 10, maybe 15 minutes to siphon and collect it all. I certainly don't want instantaneous cargo collection, but some system to make the overall process a little less tedious would be nice.