Could or should Frontier enhance the FSS or add in and incorporate an optional ADS-like expansion module?

[WR3ND]

I have mixed feelings about which of these would be more viable and better received by players in general, and of course which I would actually prefer.

It's no secret that I'm not fond of being more or less obligated to park my ship in supercruise while out in the black and go into a non-first-person-cockpit camera view to "explore" the cosmos by aligning and dialing in the words instead of having more viable options beyond just the likes of parallax.

I don't want to undermine the FSS and more importantly the game-play of it for those who prefer it, but would definitely like some alternatives to use at my discretion.

I'm wondering what other players, at least on the forums here, think about this in general.

Let me just say to please not discuss other player's opinions here nor their validity. I'd rather this not degrade into another poo flinging match we've seen of late when these sort of topics come up.

Thanks.

PS: Still on my roundabout way to Jaques Station from Beagle Point after DW2. Yeah, I'm a bit of a slacker, but had a lot of family needs come up recently, including a very unfortunate death in our extended family that saw us going out of town for a while. I haven't been intentionally avoiding other players nor the game. Thanks for your understanding.

 

[EUS]

Exploration needs a complete rethink as far as I'm concerned.

 

[robbyp]

It's better than the previous mechanics. But I'm sure there could be better..

 

[Dutchman141]

To be honest I'm pretty happy with the new fss and planet mapping.
It brought my exploration trips more fun except for the long geological poi scan times which have put me off of exploration altogether.

I can see that others don't like this so called minigame in a seperate screen but it doesn't bother me at all, I envision myself using a sort of terminal away from the front view.

 

[CMDR DragonHorn]

Personally I like FSS in general. What I don't like is inner workings: you just zoom in/out repeatebly on signals and very fast just to get data checks in. There's literally 0 sense in actually reading about bodies you scan. Some more optional actions during zoom in would be nice to have.

But I agree that exploration needs some kind of re-think. FSS aside, it's just way too much snoozefest currently. There are NO dangers out there, unless you're wasted and just looking to crash into something, but I doubt real galaxy is so safe and friendly place.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

I was using it again the other day and it was so apparent that it’s only intent is for “getting stuff” exploration. The activity itself is so mindless... and lacking any form of interest or depth... the only attraction can be the content you receive once you do the almighty click.

As we kick off the next thousand pages of discussion, I think that’s the line that divides on the fss, some people go exploring to get, some people go exploring to see, both are valid intentions and the fss is nothing but misery for the see-ers.

There’s also 2 issues going on in the discussion:

1. People have a broken exploration game and need to be made whole.
2. The fss mechanic itself is suboptimal as discussed for thousands upon thousands of posts by both white knights and haters alike.

These issues probably need to be addressed separately, so mine for the op question would be both.

Ps. Sorry to hear about your family. Nothing like some time in space to clear the pallet, until you turn on the fss and end up on the forums immediately afterwards chatting to us hey.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

The FSS is geared towards a particular general playstyle. It is possible to use it ways that are more complex than simple pan 'n zoom, but it's not optimal, requiring either ignoring or avoiding features or functionality.

A more modular implementation would, I feel, have been better, allowing players to pick and choose which functionality they want to install. If this had ncluded some level of auto-detection mechanism then it would have supported all exploration playstyles - which the current design clearly does not.

Sadly, FDev have expressly stated they have no intention of significantly altering the FSS at this point.

 

[Maolagin]

Okay, it's with great trepidation that I sign up for another FSS/ADS thread, but OP seems to be legit trying to take the discussion in a different direction than usual, so thanks for that.

I don't want to undermine the FSS and more importantly the game-play of it for those who prefer it, but would definitely like some alternatives to use at my discretion.

Fair - I generally like it and have found myself developing a variety of techniques to optimize it, but sure the blue radio game gets old by the thousandth system.

I would point out that there's already a reasonable compromise between "eyeball parallax" and "FSS everything" though - it's quick enough to pop into the FSS, note the position of blobs of interest, and then fly towards them. Works particularly well for e.g. resolving a gas giant and then flying there to proximity-resolve all the smaller bodies around it. This would work even better if you had access to helm controls so you could actually align the ship from within the FSS mode. Alternately, making FSS data available as a HUD overlay would allow one to consult it while piloting. Overall I do think the strict separation between piloting and FSSing is the most serious design flaw here.

I was using it again the other day and it was so apparent that it’s only intent is for “getting stuff” exploration. The activity itself is so mindless... and lacking any form of interest or depth... the only attraction can be the content you receive once you do the almighty click.

I think this is more to do with the structure of the game than the FSS in particular. I would say the point of the "discovery scanner" in whatever form is to reveal information about the bodies available to visit. So the game designers need to balance making some interactive activity (FSS replacing ADS honk) with spending minimal time in the activity, because ultimately the point is to quickly decide which (if any) bodies to go see up close. That ideal is undermined a bit by the fact that space is big and empty, so the vast majority of systems don't offer much of interest to go see, especially after you've already seen your fill of geysers - after geo sites, everything else the FSS can reveal is much much rarer. The other sorts of things people tend to mention looking for in these discussions are various basically aesthetic considerations - and since everyone has different interests there, it's going to be quite difficult to make a satisfying interface to flag those things remotely.

 

[Enderby]

I'm on the fence about this one.

 

[Ethaidan]

I much prefer the FSS to the previous ADS. I am still out on DW2, not to get stuff, or to see stuff, but rather, both. More, to see stuff, if I'm honest, and I still like the FSS.

I understand the point of not having to stop in SC, but I can see why it has been designed that way. I have, on occasion, zeroed my throttle and immediately opened the FSS while my ship slowed down, only to see the planetary bodies in front of my zip past in the FSS at a speed that would never be scannable. I can also predict the insane amounts of salt/whinge from pilots slapping into stars/planets while in FSS and moving blindly through a system.

Having the FSS as a cockpit overlay could mitigate both of those - if it's even possible to do.

Would I prefer the initial post-Honk spectrum readout as a cockpit overlay - yes. Would I like the FSS to move quicker (esp on the diagonal) - yes. Would I like to see an ADS module reintroduced - no.

 

[Burke]

Sadly, FDev have expressly stated they have no intention of significantly altering the FSS at this point.

Six months or so ago it was something about they were happy with it at that time. Must be time for another look by now, it was almost saying they might wait and see. What harm could it possibly do to give players the choice, give people a reason to re engage in the run up to chiristmas and the next expansion.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Since Opinions are quite split, this is what I'd do to give a few more Options :

- NPC Crew onboard able to (a tad slowly) FSS a System and highlights anything of Interest
-> this populates the System for CMDRs who have little interest in using the FSS for whatever reasons

- ability to fire longrange DSS probes, their position and ETA tracked in the Oerry Map
-> this makes flying to distant Objects somewhat Optional (still requires of course to investigate anything found and obviously requires time)

- ability to operate FSS while at Speed/any Throttle
-> this removes the need for "sitting duck Exploration" and offers a velocity/gyro-stabilized FSS to compensate for own Ship movement and speed

- ability to use FSS on Objects currently "too close" and ability to zoom in to nearby close-Orbit Objects (current inhibited with corresponding Error Messages)
-> this removes some of the annoyances in specific System Constellations that requires to manually fly quite a bit to resolve all Objects correctly

- ability to use the FSS in an alternative to Identify and Target distant Stellar Objects
-> there's your "Identify this Object" Stellar Function for the FSS, making it a better Exploration Utility

- instant removal of blocking "Adaptive Zoom failed" Message delay after successfully zooming in a second later
-> just extremely annoying and hides the Info the Player is really after

- removal of "per-pixel required accuracy" on Planetary Objects without ambiguities
-> just make it more easy to correctly zoom in onto nicely isolated Objects instead of tossing out "Adaptive Zoom failed" Messages to no end, just painfully annoying sometimes

- minimized time required to resolve POIs on Planets (Geologicals)
-> just a useless and ultra annoying time sink, get that Data displayed as soon as possible instead

- Highlight a Targeted Object in FSS
-> make it easier if a 2nd look for Details is desired i.e. after a System Scan is complete, currently it can be quite difficult to find back any Object already targeted

- collate Asteroid Belt Cluster Discoveries into one HUD notification per Belt
-> no more endless "Discovered A A Belt Cluster Nr.{nn}" that blocks the HUD on subsequent FSS zoom-ins of other Objects for upto a Minute, states single Message "A A Belt Cluster(s) discovered" instead

- removal of ambiguities in the Frequency Band
-> quicker looking for specifics (i.e. ELWs) is now possible, no more mixing up i.e. an Earth-Like World with an entirely uninteresting Rocky Ice World (or zooming in while in ELW band and getting something different)

------------------
The radical and most easy Option?
Simply return the ADV Scanner as a "Legacy Discovery Scanner' as it used to be.
When equipped, FSS is still available but has no Frequency Band to tune - and is only used to identify USS. Optional Mapping still done via DSS as usual.

Both of both worlds served with no downsides, all flavors served.

 

[Maolagin]

Would I prefer the initial post-Honk spectrum readout as a cockpit overlay - yes. Would I like the FSS to move quicker (esp on the diagonal) - yes. Would I like to see an ADS module reintroduced - no.

I take it you play with either a HOTAS or a controller? I didn't realize this until I switched from KBM to a HOTAS, but using the stick to move the FSS is dramatically slower than using a mouse. So much so that I cleared space to keep a mouse on hand next to the stick. So I guess I have a HOTASAM setup now. Comes in handy for manipulating the galaxy map and station menus too.

 

[znôrt]

usually i consider revisiting features a waste of (developer) time (in the vane hopes that this gives more time to actually flesh out the galaxy, which is one of the few strong points the game has). and the spectrometer idea looks actually sound to me but i would welcome a complete redesign. couldn't be much worse than this overcomplicated, rushed and flaky chase-the-ball mini game, and exploration mechanic is really central to this game.

 

[Enderby]

I'm not on the fence at all.

That was a joke, fans.

The FSS is an insult to ED.

A mis-step so heinously e that its very existence probably negates any possibility of improvement because FD thought that the FSS was a good idea in the first place.

 

[Burke]

The simplicity of the ADS was a strength imo.

 

[Enderby]

I have had some wine, though.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

So the game designers need to balance making some interactive activity (FSS replacing ADS honk) with spending minimal time in the activity, because ultimately the point is to quickly decide which (if any) bodies to go see up close.

You could point to that as single handedly ruining exploration. Personally im open minded enough to accept that space just has different versions of the same thing. For me its fundamentally a problem with the mechanic itself. They should have done better than a blue screen with a mechanic that is literally tedium compared to the other operating mechanics in the game. Its just out of place. The fss is the same level of gameplay as in "farm together", not elite. You just click to get stuff there too. My brain at least registers that as very inappropriate.

As it currently is, its begging for depth.. you get all the gaming rewards of exploration right there after one button press. Its a big obvious target for making it more interesting.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

Oh boy, here we go again!

Given that we waited, waited some more, and then waited again for the long awaited improvements to exploration, and ended up with the FSS and DSS as the reward for our patience, I think it’s reasonable not to invest any particular hope or expectation that these will be improved on. Especially given that FD have made it clear that they are happy with it.

So, much as I’d love to see various improvements, including a toned down version of ADS functionality to bring back a method of top-down system exploration, which I’ve previously suggested going all the way back to 3.3 Beta, who knows how long we’d need to wait for it.

So ultimately we’re back to just putting the ADS back in.
It’s existing code, the functionality is still in the game as the behaviour in already explored space, and it’d be entirely optional as a module.

The simple, obvious, and minimal development solution.
Anything else is just wishful thinking.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Given that we waited, waited some more, and then waited again for the long awaited improvements to exploration, and ended up with the FSS and DSS as the reward for our patienceI think it’s reasonable not to invest any particular hope or expectation that these will be improved on. Especially given that FD have made it clear that they are happy with it.

Happy with it? No way id say their hands are just tied and the fss is now alongside the rest of the frankenstien projects that only got one go in the oven? FSS, powerplay, multicrew, passengers.

If frontier were happy with it, that would be like a chef saying they were happy with making food they only they and 4 other customers dressed in white cloaks angrily demanded was perfection, where as the rest of the customers were unhappy and started to leave.

Wouldn't a game developer get joy out of people being delighted from their craft? Hmm...