CQC CQC and skill

[Mr_sukebe]

Never really tried CQC before, so understandably, I'm a bit crap.
Either way, just played a few battles and I have to say, GREAT concept, but WHY does it include the ability to upgrade the ships and improve their loadouts?

Surely, if this is about skill, then why as a new starter am I even more disadvantaged by having a worse ship?
Talk about a great way to put off noobs, as it doesn't matter how bad you appear to be, I was still facing rank 13 players as a rank 1 player.

That makes absolutely zero sense. Back in the days when I played CS, it was purely about skill. There was no "you've played 100 battles, you always get a better gun to start with".

 

[SushiCW]

The good news is that the "upgrades" are almost all sidegrades rather than straight-up improvements. They're not strictly better.

Unfortunately this isn't generally clear to new players, and the perception of unfairness is discouraging.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

Actually the started loadout is one of the best IMO. Noone needs Plasma Repeaters apart from pubstomping. Cannons and the like are also not a viable choice, always go for hitscan weapons.

The unlocking adds a little reason for me to play and I have to say a little bit of grind isn't bad. Also rank 1 and rank 13 players are on a relative same skill level except if one of them is prestige level.
Basically the first presige level itself is the same experience level but what do I have to say? 5.0 KDR in DM and didn't even reach prestige yet. It IS about skill. A good pilot of level 1 can easily get rid of two level 50 ones at once if they have no idea about PvP.

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Actually the started loadout is one of the best IMO. Noone needs Plasma Repeaters apart from pubstomping. Cannons and the like are also not a viable choice, always go for hitscan weapons.

The unlocking adds a little reason for me to play and I have to say a little bit of grind isn't bad. Also rank 1 and rank 13 players are on a relative same skill level except if one of them is prestige level.
Basically the first presige level itself is the same experience level but what do I have to say? 5.0 KDR in DM and didn't even reach prestige yet. It IS about skill. A good pilot of level 1 can easily get rid of two level 50 ones at once if they have no idea about PvP.

I have no issues with the game being focused upon skill, however, was rather dismayed that more experienced players also "appeared" to have better ship/loadout options. Hardly what you'd call conducive for new players.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

The good news is that the "upgrades" are almost all sidegrades rather than straight-up improvements. They're not strictly better.

Unfortunately this isn't generally clear to new players, and the perception of unfairness is discouraging.

I actually kinda disagree with you here. Maybe this was the case in 1.4, but the current state of the imperial fighter compared to stock condor is a little unfair.

Stock condor has the advantage of faster shield recharge time (which in reality matters very little, especially for new players)

Imperial eagle with ENG focused PD, overcharged shields, burst lasers and super boost diverter has more DPS, much better HP, a faster top speed, smaller hitbox, and better maneuverability.

In fair 1v1s, I wouldn't be able to defeat a competent pilot in a fully upgraded imperial eagle in a stock condor unless I got massively lucky

 

[kossack]

I agree. It may be not apparent because we do not spend much time @ low ranks after taking prestige, but as I recently went through rank 1 again, I can attest that rank 1-18 loadouts are pretty bad. Takes waay more effort to get to the top. At the same time, at rank 50 I was able to get to the top in a sidewinder (50 unlocks that "special" weapon )
So yes, the "upgrade path" is pretty counter-productive. (I suggested in one of the previous "suggestion" threads to "nerf" the ships with prestige progression, but the idea applies to ranks as well)

 

[Crimson Kaim]

I have no issues with the game being focused upon skill, however, was rather dismayed that more experienced players also "appeared" to have better ship/loadout options. Hardly what you'd call conducive for new players.

But the grind doesn't take long. After maybe 2 hours of decent matches you unlock the most parts and only modules like Silent Running are missing. In the end it is the skill that decides a fight but I somewhat agree that the unlocking can be a little annoying. Especially on the rnaks 40+.

 

[Enjoy_the_rain]

You are right for almost everything you say here, but don't forget that a new player can't really use these upgrades to his/her advantage. Reaching rank 18 is two hours "work", and the starting condor is perfect for this job. After that you are free to costumize any ship however you like.

 

[SushiCW]

I actually kinda disagree with you here. Maybe this was the case in 1.4, but the current state of the imperial fighter compared to stock condor is a little unfair.

Stock condor has the advantage of faster shield recharge time (which in reality matters very little, especially for new players)

Imperial eagle with ENG focused PD, overcharged shields, burst lasers and super boost diverter has more DPS, much better HP, a faster top speed, smaller hitbox, and better maneuverability.

In fair 1v1s, I wouldn't be able to defeat a competent pilot in a fully upgraded imperial eagle in a stock condor unless I got massively lucky

I did say "mostly."

I agree that the Imp is a tad OP at the moment compared to the Condor (both stock and fully upgraded), but the stock Imp does unlock almost immediately (rank 4) so it's hardly behind a big wall to get to.

What are the top speed numbers when using the super boost diverter for the Condor and Imp? I recently checked using the regular diverter and ENG distributor. Condor tops out at 325, Imp tops out at 315. Is the Imp's super boost way better than the Condor's? Still, if we're talking about a 10 m/s speed gap, It's not enough to matter in CQC and needs to be widened. Slow the Imp by 15-20 m/s and I think it'll be in a better place.

 

[Alexander the Grape]

I did say "mostly."

I agree that the Imp is a tad OP at the moment compared to the Condor (both stock and fully upgraded), but the stock Imp does unlock almost immediately (rank 4) so it's hardly behind a big wall to get to.

What are the top speed numbers when using the super boost diverter for the Condor and Imp? I recently checked using the regular diverter and ENG distributor. Condor tops out at 325, Imp tops out at 315. Is the Imp's super boost way better than the Condor's? Still, if we're talking about a 10 m/s speed gap, It's not enough to matter in CQC and needs to be widened. Slow the Imp by 15-20 m/s and I think it'll be in a better place.

Haven't tested yet, still grinding up to rank 44 for super boost. I'm pretty sure condor super boost goes up to 350ish so Imp's Super boost should be superior to stock condor's boost

Agree with you on the speed thing. If the condor's advantage is in booming and zooming, it needs to be a more noticeable difference (especially considering the ENG focused imp fighter has better weps PD, freeing up power for long-range heat beams).

Actually I think that would need to change also: the ENG focus PD for the imp fighter is way better than on the condor because SYS recharge is worth waaaayless than WEP.

 

[SushiCW]

I'm afraid you've managed to confuse me completely.

You seem to think that Imp's super boost will be better than Condor super boost when Imp's regular boost is definitely slower than Condor regular boost (but not by a lot). This seems counter-intuitive.

This is also the first I've heard about "the ENG focuesed imp fighter has better weps PD." I thought the distributors were identical between the Condor and Imp. Have you measured this?

Likewise I don't get what you mean by your last line. Do you just mean that WEP is a more viable sidegrade than ENG on the Condor than SYS is a viable sidegrade for ENG on the Imp?

 

[Mr_sukebe]

Thanks for the feedback guys, but I have to say that I'm still confused as to why FD did it this way.
I get the ranks, and having those makes sense as a way to try to measure skill level.
What I don't get is why they would introduce a scenario to test player skills in combat, then deliberately imbalance it. Wouldn't it make more sense if they various options were simply "different", rather than necessarily better as you unlock them. Again, back to my time in Counterstrike. I played that for 5 years and never felt the requirement to have a better gun as soon as I started a game. Back then, it really was down to who had the most skill (well apart from the wallhackers).