Credit rewards need a balancing pass

...my imagination isn't stretching how you can make ship based missions more like on foot.
Absolute boatloads, and the mechanics already exist... just for some reason, FD refuses to actually exploit them.

Ref:

But first, what does making them look more like Odyssey missions look like?

Take this for example:
Assassination (Odyssey): Fly to base (noting this is already problematic if you're wanted/hostile), locate target via base computers, get access to target (they may be in a secure/restricted area), optionally disable whatever security measures to make the takedown a bit easier, take down the target, escape.

Assassination (Space): Fly to USS, PEW PEW PEW

Space-based missions in Elite are incredibly one-dimensional by contrast to Odyssey and are barely activities. The only one which I think is "fine" is hijack missions, which require hatchbreak limpets and some specialised tactics... also disabling megaship turrets. I mean, you can do an Odyssey mission by going "Rock up and pew pew pew", but you're going to have a bad day. Odyssey missions simply have more nuance, depth and pathways to resolution.

To ramp up missions in a similar capacity means taking advantage of some of those linked mechanics. For example, instead of salvage being "fly to USS, scoop cargo", it becomes "Fly to derelict minor outpost/megaship, use recon limpets to circumvent security systems, avoid navigational hazards, fly into the wreck and breach a cargo hatch. Panic because you had to power up the hatch first, which also activated a transponder which has drawn pirates to the site, who will arrive in one minute. Escape.". It doesn't need to be that sequence of events every time, because the wrecks should be procedurally generated. But there's a vast array of "things" available.

Pirate Assassinations could be "Fly to location of target's last victim, extract the black box from the wreck with hatchbreakers, or even cut it out with a mining laser, which tells you what system they're in next. Respond to a distress call while in supercruise from the target's next victim, pew pew". If the target is not a criminal (say, a politician or military leader, for the common ones in game), maybe it involves going to a "live" base and stealing some intelligence either by scanning, hatchbreaking or some combination of the above. You could destroy power conduits to more aggressively shut down the minor outpost's defence systems first before getting the scan, but that will get the locals more angry. Or just shoot everything because you hate the superpower running this show. Then you track them down in the next system and interdict them.

Along those lines, there's all sorts of missions you could build; outpost/megaship repair/restoration, sabotage/destruction or espionage/theft. Scenario-based mechanics allow for assassinations and massacres to become pirate outpost assault missions where you combat waves of ships in a CQC-like environment, instead of being just glorified "bonus credit" overlays to existing activities like they currently are.

And of course, a whole bunch of these can have environmental threats instead. instead of the salvage mission having a security-and-pirate threat, instead the drive core has become unstable, creating a large electromagnetic field that disrupts ship systems around the vessel, much like what we see with anomalies currently.

That's just the tip of the iceberg, using mechanics that already exist in the game. They just aren't orchestrated together.... and with a host of actual interesting missions, we can retire the ones that are "free credit" overlays like massacre, source, mining and delivery missions. Removing them is not hurting that gameplay, source and delivery missions only generate for trade routes you could otherwise do anyway, and massacres are just a credit top-up to bounty hunting, and are completely unnecessary (and poorly designed)
 
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On foot credits rewards need to be significantly higher for sure.

I achieved a "level up" of sorts yesterday by completing a ship-based pirate massacre mission that required killing 40 of them. I had 6 days. I did it in a few hours at a nav beacon. I gained 12 million credits. That was just ONE of the missions. The other ones in the stack for that particular pirate faction, plus the bounties I cashed in, added up to ~30 million.

30 MILLION. In one day! (I don't do mining or trading so to me, a player of 2 months, that's jaw dropping) That made me sit and think, the hell am I doing Odyssey missions for money when I could be stacking these babies up instead? The highest payout I've seen for on foot missions is 400-600k. The mission cap is 20. That's a ton of time and work for a paltry amount that doesn't even come close to what I can get from stacking such missions.

I have my Mav suit fully modded. I have my completely silenced indoor/outdoor Tormentor fully upgraded. That's all I need on-foot engineering wise. So please fdev, those rewards need a bump because I'm kinda feeling like staying in space now that I'm starting to "git gud" at my space pew pew...

At the VERY LEAST, illegal on-foot massacre missions should be paying what pirate massacre missions do. If an assassination mission is illegal and the payout for those start around 600k, then you should be getting around that for EVERY innocent you have to kill in a massacre. That would make it worth the notoriety.
 
I believe this issue stems from the general idea that time=money. For the time spent conducting Odyssey content, you could have made more money doing Horizons content. This is true for beginners and for veterans.
Generally speaking, players concerned with credits/hr are not the sort who concern themselves with the nuance of the task, so they would consider the content as optimized as possible.

The folks who are looking for a challenge already know they are going to receive poor rewards, because that is the nature of the system, and they don't measure their gameplay in credits/hr. Plus, when you reach the point of thrill seeking in this game, you usually don't have much use for money anymore.

If there was more difficult content, it would be pretty straightforward to pay better for it, but it wouldn't really do much good, as credits are ultimately useless.
Perhaps if the payout was in materials....
 
Perhaps if the payout was in materials....
I know longtime diehards are dreading Horizons merging with Odyssey but it makes 0 sense that there isn't raw/manufactured material storerooms at such settlements. Like damn, can you at lease give us one or two canisters? Also to address something else in your post regarding people looking for challenges not caring about credits... nah dude credits are always nice and challenging content should have a payout to match. If there was a mission to destroy a pack of rogue goliaths or goliath manufacturing plant or a military base raid full of enemies tough as high level CZ troops...stuff like that would be so incredibly badass and awesome as "endgame" Odyssey content... but I would expect top tier rewards for it.
 
I know longtime diehards are dreading Horizons merging with Odyssey but it makes 0 sense that there isn't raw/manufactured material storerooms at such settlements. Like damn, can you at lease give us one or two canisters? Also to address something else in your post regarding people looking for challenges not caring about credits... nah dude credits are always nice and challenging content should have a payout to match. If there was a mission to destroy a pack of rogue goliaths or goliath manufacturing plant or a military base raid full of enemies tough as high level CZ troops...stuff like that would be so incredibly badass and awesome as "endgame" Odyssey content... but I would expect top tier rewards for it.
I'd totally expect top tier rewards for it. Credits are bottom tier rewards. There's no amount of credits that will be a meaningful reward to your average multibillionaire mercenary.

Credits are only useful until you have enough, then you never need to worry about them again.
 
Look, Richie Rich, not all of us are cool ass billionaires :( some of us have just reached our first ever 300M and feel like that's "rich" when they know it's really not...ahem.

So the problem is that there's a distinct lack of money sinks. Being able to outright buy raw/mf/encoded mats would be a nice solution, even if it was made to be expensive. But it would never happen because that would impact engagement metrics, sigh.
 
Credit rewards for ground combat zones are actually quite nice, compared to space ones. Got 5 million on average and they don't take that long to finish with proper gear.
 
I achieved a "level up" of sorts yesterday by completing a ship-based pirate massacre mission that required killing 40 of them. I had 6 days. I did it in a few hours at a nav beacon. I gained 12 million credits. That was just ONE of the missions. The other ones in the stack for that particular pirate faction, plus the bounties I cashed in, added up to ~30 million.

....

At the VERY LEAST, illegal on-foot massacre missions should be paying what pirate massacre missions do. If an assassination mission is illegal and the payout for those start around 600k, then you should be getting around that for EVERY innocent you have to kill in a massacre. That would make it worth the notoriety.
Congratulations. You just created the next red-hot credit farming activity, because these can be ship-scummed from orbit with missiles in a small fraction of the time it takes to do an actual massacre.

Thing is, ship-based massacre missions pay out way too much (in fact, many ship based activities pay way too much, but I'm not going to go down the path of a ground-up rework of the entire game's reward/economic structure, even though that's exactly what's needed[1]). Carefully stacked, and including the stack time in that calculation, they pay out 200-300m/h. You won't even get close to that running just assassinations.

And no... Massacres shouldn't be worth a kill-for-kill Assassination payout. Assassination targets, both space and ground are, generally, tougher than their massacre counterparts. In practice, you could complete a massacre targeting nothing but unprepared civilians if you wanted, but an Assassination mandates that it must be that high-rank well-equipped guard, or that civilian researcher working in a security-restricted area with multiple mates in the same area.

Frankly, massacres shouldn't actually exist. They're just credit-top-up overlays for otherwise standard game activities. At the very least, they should only register kills specific to a particular surface/space USS, and not just target arbitrary faction members/

[1] FD failed to balance ship-activities correctly in January before Odyssey went live. The fact their balance patches themselves needed balancing shows the lack of planning and insight that went into it; there were some basic things which were overlooked (such as the impact on pumping up mineral values on source/delivery missions), and of course we got knee-jerk reactions which just wrecked them entirely.

Basically, Horizon's ship-based rewards were and still are horribly broken, so Odyssey's were always going to be inadequate by comparison. But making Odyssey reward more like Horizons is not the fix here.

EDIT: I'll say this though; FD making Odyssey massacres give notoriety is pretty dumb, since in Horizons killing mission targets never attracts notoriety.
 
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Congratulations. You just created the next red-hot credit farming activity, because these can be ship-scummed from orbit with missiles in a small fraction of the time it takes to do an actual massacre.
Well the thing is this: there are always going to be THOSE people who work out the laziest minimum effort cheese to do something super quick. That doesn't mean something should NOT be implemented just because of people like that. What would be the point of anything then? Just take out all combat and have it be a space flight sim because oh no the people that cheese will just find low effort ways to rake in the rewards anyway...

Personally I like to play a game a paid for, not resort to low effort cheeses, but I'm kind of a maverick in that regard what can I say?
 
Well the thing is this: there are always going to be THOSE people who work out the laziest minimum effort cheese to do something super quick. That doesn't mean something should NOT be implemented just because of people like that. What would be the point of anything then? Just take out all combat and have it be a space flight sim because oh no the people that cheese will just find low effort ways to rake in the rewards anyway...

Personally I like to play a game a paid for, not resort to low effort cheeses, but I'm kind of a maverick in that regard what can I say?
Actually, I have dozens of reasons why cheese (aka bad game design) should be actively removed from games... but the most relevant one is simply that you can't develop a stable game on rubble. Thus, the bunfight that Odyssey's reward mechanisms were always going to be; because space-based activity rewards were ridiculous to begin with.
 
Perhaps you should phrase it this way. How many ground missions is a good number to complete before you are fully finished upgrading everything? 10, 100, 1,000?

For most of us players of MMOs, that number needs to be more around a thousand to match our expected playtime.
 
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