Criminal Flagging makes no sense, sometimes

[Old Grumpy]

So I'm doing the Blatrimpe Community Goal, protecting the Traders, fighting off the bad guys, etc. I'm Friendly status with the Blatrimpe factions and under the Top 75% of contributors. So they know me, I'm the good guy!

But in the heat of the fight, I targeted a ship which I haven't fully scanned before, didn't properly switch to another Fire Group (because it is on a Wheel control on my HOTAS and clunky to use) with the Kill Warrant Scanner in it, accidentially shot it ONCE because I assumed I had already switched to the KWS and wanted to scan it. I immediately got a 400 CR Bounty and the Feds started shooting me. So I left the zone, flew to Boltzmann Hub to pay off my 400 CR fine. But instead they put me in a detention facility and I had to pay 25.000 CR for court case. What the ... ? [big grin]

This is like accidentially bumping into someone on the street, instantly getting raided by the SWAT and sent to Guantanamo.

 

[Bigmaec]

Deserves you right, criminal scum

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Yeah, low or single bounties should still allow you to pay the old way without the detention center thingie.

Seems a bit excessive to make you find a place to pay off the 400cr just so you don't go to jail for paying off the 400cr.

 

[Marra Morgan]

So I'm doing the Blatrimpe Community Goal, protecting the Traders, fighting off the bad guys, etc. I'm Friendly status with the Blatrimpe factions and under the Top 75% of contributors. So they know me, I'm the good guy!

But in the heat of the fight, I targeted a ship which I haven't fully scanned before, didn't properly switch to another Fire Group (because it is on a Wheel control on my HOTAS and clunky to use) with the Kill Warrant Scanner in it, accidentially shot it ONCE because I assumed I had already switched to the KWS and wanted to scan it, immediately got a 400 CR Bounty and the Fed's started shooting me. So I left the zone, flew to Boltzmann Hub to pay off my 400 CR fine. But instead they put me in a detention facility and I had to pay 25.000 CR for court case. What the ... ? [big grin]

This is like accidentially bumping into some on the street, instantly getting raided by the SWAT and sent to Guantanamo.

Welcome to 34th century justice, criminal!

Joking aside, it looks like there was several errors on the commander's part there - these will pass as you get more fluent with the controls and develop situational awareness.

Also, you correctly stated you got a bounty for assaulting a Clean ship, but later you say that you got sent to the detention ship for paying off a fine.
You must understand the difference between bounty and fine as there are very different consequences to each - you got sent to the detention ship because you had a bounty and handed yourself in. If you just had a fine, you could've paid it off without a trip to jail.

Hope this helps

 

[babelfisch]

Next time visit an interstellar factor to pay off your bounties. Also don't randomly click on buttons without reading first. To be fair, accidentally handing yourself in is a problem due to poor UI design.

 

[Old Grumpy]

Deserves you right, criminal scum

[big grin]

You must understand the difference between bounty and fine as there are very different consequences to each - you got sent to the detention ship because you had a bounty and handed yourself in. If you just had a fine, you could've paid it off without a trip to jail.

Hope this helps

Hm, I see. I thought it is a "fine", because when paying it off, it was listed under the "Fines" section. So how do I get rid off bounties properly? Fly to another system? I haven't played ED for quite a while. But if I remember correctly, I think "back then" you could just pay off bounties in the same system.

 

[Bortas]

Hm, I see. I thought it is a "fine", because when paying it off, it was listed under the "Fines" section. So how do I get rid off bounties properly? Fly to another system? I haven't played ED for quite a while. But if I remember correctly, I think "back then" you could just pay off bounties in the same system.

You have to visit an interstellar factors guy. You will find them on stations in low sec systems. Remember to visit him with the ship you commited the crime in, as the bounty is tied to your ship, not your commander. Makes sense, doesn't it?

 

[Dillon Fallon]

I've had this myself and it made me careful about what weapons I'm using. Couple of hits with a multicannon is fine. Smack someone once with a plasma accelerator and it's a different story.

It'll still happen again, so I always have a local system with IF bookmarked when I'm in a haz res.

 

[Old Grumpy]

You have to visit an interstellar factors guy. You will find them on stations in low sec systems.

Ah ok. Thanks. Thats actually what babelfish already said. But it still doesn't make much sense to me. This must be "new"? At least it wasn't like this about 1 year ago or so.

Remember to visit him with the ship you commited the crime in, as the bounty is tied to your ship, not your commander. Makes sense, doesn't it?

Totally.

I've had this myself and it made me careful about what weapons I'm using. Couple of hits with a multicannon is fine. Smack someone once with a plasma accelerator and it's a different story.

At least they fixed it that any accidental hits flag you. I remember that when just some Fed or "innocent" ship flew through your laser beam, it already flagged you criminal.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Ah ok. Thanks. Thats actually what babelfish already said. But it still doesn't make much sense to me. This must be "new"? At least it wasn't like this about 1 year ago or so.

There were a bunch of changes in the 3.0 release, so 9-10 months ago.

Summary of the changes here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/407608-Crime-and-Punishment-in-Beyond-Chapter-One

 

[Ethaidan]

Ah ok. Thanks. Thats actually what babelfish already said. But it still doesn't make much sense to me. This must be "new"? At least it wasn't like this about 1 year ago...

Yes, the C&P has had a complete overhaul, so if you have the time and inclination, maybe have a look over the changes (edit: see the link in Ian's post). It's not as complicated as some like to make out. Here's a few key points to get you started.

1. Firing on a clean ship, even accidentally, will earn you a fine. You can pay these off at any station controlled by the fine issuing faction. You'll know you have a fine/bounty when trying to dock by the very obvious red message "anonymous access". Do make sure it's fine and not a bounty - check your transaction tab - before trying to settle up, or you may end up handing yourself in and get transported to a detention centre.

2. Firing on a clean ship, even accidentally, will earn you a bounty, if the ship you fired on is destroyed. It doesn't matter if you just tickled it's shield and it was later destroyed by someone else - you contributed to its destruction and in a society where loitering over the wrong landing pad brings death, you will be held accountable. DO NOT try to sort this out at a station controlled by the bounty issuing faction - you'll end up at a detention centre. As mentioned, seek out an Interstellar Faction and sort it out there. These can be found in anarchy/low sec systems, can be filtered for in GalMap (limited radius and must be already known to you), or Inara.

3. Notoriety. Destroying a clean ship(s) now also earns you notoriety! You can check your criminal notoriety status under your cmdr staristics - you will have a rating from 0-10. When you have notoriety, you cannot pay of your fines/bounties - notoriety decays at a rate of 1 point per two hours of game time. So, if being notorious and wanted might seriously impede what you're doing... better find another system/activity for a bit... or, switch to a clean ship - the notoriety will stay with you, in the background, but you will not be wanted.

4. Hot Ships & Modules. Bounties & Fines are now attached to ships rather than cmdrs. Yes, there is a lot of gurning about this, but it became necessary because people. That's right, people, who will always work harder to find an exploit/loophole than on anything else. So, you can no longer commit endless crimes in your big expensive death machine, then switch to a free sidewinder and let the authorities kill you to clear all your debts to society. Having a hot ship (outstanding bounties), also transfers said hotness to your modules - so you can't just rack up billions in bounties, then swap all your engineered modules to a new hull. Because people.

 

[MottiKhan]

Yes, the C&P has had a complete overhaul, so if you have the time and inclination, maybe have a look over the changes (edit: see the link in Ian's post). It's not as complicated as some like to make out. Here's a few key points to get you started.

1. Firing on a clean ship, even accidentally, will earn you a fine. You can pay these off at any station controlled by the fine issuing faction. You'll know you have a fine/bounty when trying to dock by the very obvious red message "anonymous access". Do make sure it's fine and not a bounty - check your transaction tab - before trying to settle up, or you may end up handing yourself in and get transported to a detention centre.

2. Firing on a clean ship, even accidentally, will earn you a bounty, if the ship you fired on is destroyed. It doesn't matter if you just tickled it's shield and it was later destroyed by someone else - you contributed to its destruction and in a society where loitering over the wrong landing pad brings death, you will be held accountable. DO NOT try to sort this out at a station controlled by the bounty issuing faction - you'll end up at a detention centre. As mentioned, seek out an Interstellar Faction and sort it out there. These can be found in anarchy/low sec systems, can be filtered for in GalMap (limited radius and must be already known to you), or Inara.

3. Notoriety. Destroying a clean ship(s) now also earns you notoriety! You can check your criminal notoriety status under your cmdr staristics - you will have a rating from 0-10. When you have notoriety, you cannot pay of your fines/bounties - notoriety decays at a rate of 1 point per two hours of game time. So, if being notorious and wanted might seriously impede what you're doing... better find another system/activity for a bit... or, switch to a clean ship.

4. Hot Ships & Modules. Bounties & Fines are now attached to ships rather than cmdrs. Yes, there is a lot of gurning about this, but it became necessary because people. That's right, people, who will always work harder to find an exploit/loophole than on anything else. So, you can no longer commit endless crimes in your big expensive death machine, then switch to a free sidewinder and let the authorities kill you to clear all your debts to society. Having a hot ship (outstanding bounties), also transfers said hotness to your modules - so you can't just rack up billions in bounties, then swap all your engineered modules to a new hull. Because people.

+1 rep. Excellent advice.

Just to clarify #2, don't use an Interstellar Factor that's in a station owned by the bounty issuing authority. Even though it's an IF, it'll still send you to the detention center. I've seen multiple posts about people doing that and being confused about it. It's probably a bug, but it hasn't been fixed since the new C&P was put in. Go to another system and use their IF.

 

[Deleted member 115407]

Welcome to 34th century justice, criminal!

Joking aside, it looks like there was several errors on the commander's part there - these will pass as you get more fluent with the controls and develop situational awareness.

Also, you correctly stated you got a bounty for assaulting a Clean ship, but later you say that you got sent to the detention ship for paying off a fine.
You must understand the difference between bounty and fine as there are very different consequences to each - you got sent to the detention ship because you had a bounty and handed yourself in. If you just had a fine, you could've paid it off without a trip to jail.

Hope this helps

Also, there is a forgiveness threshold for friendly fire (against sysauth/CZ ships at least), but you have to be mindful. And the bigger your guns get or the more engineering you put on them, the more likely you are to break the threshold with a single trigger pull.

While working with a new control setup I did it myself a couple times yesterday.

 

[babelfisch]

+1 rep. Excellent advice.

Just to clarify #2, don't use an Interstellar Factor that's in a station owned by the bounty issuing authority. Even though it's an IF, it'll still send you to the detention center. I've seen multiple posts about people doing that and being confused about it. It's probably a bug, but it hasn't been fixed since the new C&P was put in. Go to another system and use their IF.

You will only get send to a detention centre if you deliberately click on it. As said above, it's quite easy to do it accidentally.

 

[Kaocraft]

[big grin]



Hm, I see. I thought it is a "fine", because when paying it off, it was listed under the "Fines" section. So how do I get rid off bounties properly? Fly to another system? I haven't played ED for quite a while. But if I remember correctly, I think "back then" you could just pay off bounties in the same system.

If true, that’s for sure a bug and you should report it as such.

 

[babelfisch]

If true, that’s for sure a bug and you should report it as such.

Maybe he had a fine AND a bounty...

 

[Dillon Fallon]

Maybe he had a fine AND a bounty...

Initial fine for reckless weapons discharge, followed by assault bounty? Not sure if the fine gets upgraded or if it stays if you later gain the bounty.

 

[Xious]

and then there's Murphy's Law...

I'm defending an installation from raiders and chasing down that last filthy criminal when something comes from behind, crashes into me, and explodes... what the...?

Next, I get a fine, I'm wanted, and have Notoriety.... hmmm... I hadn't anticipated that.

No worries, I'm only wanted at the installation area, still have a few more hours to play the game, lose the notoriety, and pay the fine at the IF.

 

[Old Grumpy]

1. Firing on a clean ship, even accidentally, will earn you a fine.

2. Firing on a clean ship, even accidentally, will earn you a bounty, if the ship you fired on is destroyed.

Hmmmm, but I definately only did #1, not #2. Accidentially fired on a clean ship ONCE (tickled its shields) with two Pulse Lasers and immediately got a Bounty and Feds started engaging me.

Initial fine for reckless weapons discharge, followed by assault bounty? Not sure if the fine gets upgraded or if it stays if you later gain the bounty.

Maybe two Pulse Lasers don't count as "one attack" anymore, because they fire more than once?