Crowdsourcing ship speeds for Thruster X with total Mass Y

um.. f = m/a

I think some dude in a fruity wig beat you by about 400 years.

Edit: It's simple. You know the speed of a ship and it's weight so you can calculate the acceleration. Get two data points (different size ships) and because the equation is linear you can plot the line it describes on a graph. You now have a lookup chart.
 
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um.. f = m/a

I think some dude in a fruity wig beat you by about 400 years.

Edit: It's simple. You know the speed of a ship and it's weight so you can calculate the acceleration. Get two data points (different size ships) and because the equation is linear you can plot the line it describes on a graph. You now have a lookup chart.

Isnt this to establish if the Thruster sizes & classes have thrust values

What happens if you fit a Class 2 Rating E Thruster block to both a Sidewinder and a Hauler and outfit them so they have the same mass?

Will ships of different class but similar mass actually have the same acceleration from the same set of thrusters or does the speed cap at different levels for different ship classes result difference acceleration from the same Thruster Class and Rating.
 
Isnt this to establish if the Thruster sizes & classes have thrust values

What happens if you fit a Class 2 Rating E Thruster block to both a Sidewinder and a Hauler and outfit them so they have the same mass?

Will ships of different class but similar mass actually have the same acceleration from the same set of thrusters or does the speed cap at different levels for different ship classes result difference acceleration from the same Thruster Class and Rating.

The following threads are probably better than this one:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=164931

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=146312

This thread is pretty much dead.
 

wolverine2710

Tutorial & Guide Writer
Have you perhaps asked FD if they can supply the formula? They should realize that in the end with crowd sourcing the formula probably will be found BUT it will take quite a bit of effort. If they are supporting the third party tools eco system perhaps they are willing to invest a little time to help the community out with formulas and data. It could be a long shot but perhaps worth a try.
 
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I would like to say I Love the Coriolis application you have made its amazing. Secondly are you planning on getting the speed and boost calculations implemented. At the moment they seem static I am assuming with the stock statistics. It would seem the other threads have all the data you need but if not. What is the best way to go about helping? I am assuming you don't just want random data?
 
First of all i want to echo Captain Hammer and thank the OP for his wonderful app, and also if there is anything i can do to help improve it please PM me.

Secondly i'm a bit dubious about these formulas, i'll check them more thoroughly when i get back from work but from the few examples i've run through they don't agree with the behaviour i've observed as they imply actual mass (as opposed to mass optimal ratios) has a significant effect and also they don't account for ratings or the 50% optimal mass ceiling.
 
they imply actual mass (as opposed to mass optimal ratios) has a significant effect
I'm not sure what you mean by that. The formula given in the link I posted, which I've tested by various ships (not all, admittedly) takes a ratio of the natural log of the total mass and the natural log of the thruster's optimal mass, so increasing the ship's total mass has a negative effect on speed.

and also they don't account for ratings
Higher rated thrusters have a higher optimal mass value, thus are better.

or the 50% optimal mass ceiling.
Yes they require you to clamp the total mass yourself. One could rewrite the formula with a max line quite easily.

speed = base speed x (ln(thruster optimal mass) / ln(max(thruster optimal mass / 2, total mass)))

That's with four pips in ENG. Speed declines linearly with fewer pips, though at different rates. That's an area which needs more research. Boost is independent of pips; you either have enough capacitor energy to boost at full speed or you can't boost at all.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by that. The formula given in the link I posted, which I've tested by various ships (not all, admittedly) takes a ratio of the natural log of the total mass and the natural log of the thruster's optimal mass, so increasing the ship's total mass has a negative effect on speed.


Higher rated thrusters have a higher optimal mass value, thus are better.


Yes they require you to clamp the total mass yourself. One could rewrite the formula with a max line quite easily.

speed = base speed x (ln(thruster optimal mass) / ln(max(thruster optimal mass / 2, total mass)))

That's with four pips in ENG. Speed declines linearly with fewer pips, though at different rates. That's an area which needs more research. Boost is independent of pips; you either have enough capacitor energy to boost at full speed or you can't boost at all.

Thanks for your reply allow me to explain myself. (Sorry on phone so can't edit itby point easily)

Taking log(Optimum)base(current mass) scales significantly with mass (the value at 50% optimal mass decreases as optimal mass increases) this would imply smaller ships gain a greater benefit at 50% mass, my tests show no variation by ship mass however (tested sidey up to clipper).

On ratings, again my testing found that if you set up the same ship at 50% mass for each thruster ratings, A significantly out performs E rating at 50% mass. (~3% at E up to 16% at A) so it goes beyond just a higher optimum mass.

Thanks for clarifying the 50% self clamping didn't see it mentioned so thought i'd say.

Examples Vulture Class5A at 50% optimum =Log(840,420)~1.114 giving a speed of 234. My A rated vulture goes 244 (~1.16)

Clipper Class 6A at 50% gives log(1440,720) =1.105354 speed 332 (331.6 rounding). I clicked my A rated clipper at 348 (again~16%)

Hauler 2A log(36,72) = 1.19343 implies 239 max speed, actually only goes 232 (~16%)
 
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Interesting points. The formula I posted isn't my formula so my testing has been limited to rolling out with A-rated thrusters and seeing that the numbers seemed to match. Maybe I need to go and do some more testing.

On the ship size thing, I suspect the balancing is around the size of thruster you can fit and also the ship base speed. While playing around with a racing Eagle I found that there is no viable build which can hit that 50% figure; the optimal mass of the A3 thruster is too low for you to hit 50% with a decent distributor (for racing) and a shield (for finishing the race). On the other hand my Anaconda stocked up with A gear, shields and weapons is still well below 50%. Yet the Eagle's base speed is of course better.

The ratings definitely sound like they're worth looking into.
 
Indeed, the class3 thrusters sit at an awkward spot where it's hard to gain meaningful weight reductions, but tge ships which use them are then balnced by good base stats.

What i found most interesting is that at about 90% there is little difference but at 50% it is very noticible for thruster ratings.

I'm sure there is a forumla there somewhere, next job is to get more data points and try curve fitting i guess.
 
I would like to say I Love the Coriolis application you have made its amazing. Secondly are you planning on getting the speed and boost calculations implemented. At the moment they seem static I am assuming with the stock statistics. It would seem the other threads have all the data you need but if not. What is the best way to go about helping? I am assuming you don't just want random data?

I'll PM you.

- - - Updated - - -

We already have the formula posted on the forum. It applies to speed and boost speed.

I'm not certain that this formula is accurate. This is one reason why I am trying to gather raw data.

- - - Updated - - -

First of all i want to echo Captain Hammer and thank the OP for his wonderful app, and also if there is anything i can do to help improve it please PM me.

Secondly i'm a bit dubious about these formulas, i'll check them more thoroughly when i get back from work but from the few examples i've run through they don't agree with the behaviour i've observed as they imply actual mass (as opposed to mass optimal ratios) has a significant effect and also they don't account for ratings or the 50% optimal mass ceiling.

I'll PM you
 
Boost is independent of pips; you either have enough capacitor energy to boost at full speed or you can't boost at all.

Sort of. Boost thrust is independent of pips, but many of the heavier ships won't reach peak boost speed without more than one boost in a short period of time.
 
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