Fiction culture(s) in the Elite 'verse

[Caylo]

So, as this forum is (supposedly) also a place to discuss the setting itself, rather than "just" published or upcoming fiction about it ...

... something I'm having trouble is finding detailed background information on various topics, but as I like to flesh out any characters I play, I'm curious if perhaps some people here could help me out! It may well be that the Elite universe is intentionally not as well described as other settings, so that we may apply our own ideas to it, but if there is a canon I'd generally prefer adhering to it, as I've always regarded official information as a sort of common ground between players, readers, and writers.

So, with this little introduction out of the way, what exactly is the culture of the various factions like? From looking around in the interwebs it seems as if each of the three major factions can be summarised with about five sentences; is it true that there has just never been that much background to begin with?

Specific questions that spring to mind:

What sort of fashion is popular amongst spacers and on major planets? I imagine there is a bit of "everything is possible" due to the sheer number of worlds, but would the nature of space travel in Elite establish a sort of common trend between pilots, possibly influenced by major trade hubs or capital worlds?

What kind of small arms are available? The classy laser pistol a la Battletech, or still ballistic guns (possibly due to lack of miniaturisation)?

What about local bias or opportunities concerning various ethnicities, genders, or skin colours? For example, in the Empire, it seems that females are barred from the line of succession as Heads of State; does this also apply to minor nobility/politicians, corporations, or its military? Is there anything else like that in the setting?

And speaking of the Empire - what exactly is it about those clones mentioned in some sources ... do they have a personality/free will like the Empire's indentured servants, or are they brainwashed "human robots" (a bit like the soldiers from The Fortress, if you remember)?

Also, the Empire and the Alliance seem to have split off from the Federation, but has the Federation "always" been there or did it rise out of a merger of formerly independent worlds late in the history of space colonisation?

Are thargoids (provided they'll exist in ED as well) the only alien species encountered by humanity, or have other species simply been absorbed into the human sphere of influence?

How advanced or gritty is the setting in other aspects of technology such as medicine, A.I., etc?

Any comments appreciated!

 

[Darren Grey]

What sort of fashion is popular amongst spacers and on major planets? I imagine there is a bit of "everything is possible" due to the sheer number of worlds, but would the nature of space travel in Elite establish a sort of common trend between pilots, possibly influenced by major trade hubs or capital worlds?

There are different fashion style for the factions, much like there are different ship styles already. Imperials are suitably flamboyant, of course. Doubtless different planets would have their own sub-faction styles.

What kind of small arms are available? The classy laser pistol a la Battletech, or still ballistic guns (possibly due to lack of miniaturisation)?

I think this is on the backburner as it won't be relevant till we can get up and walk about. I'd expect there to be a variety of guns for different situations. The weapon you use for big game hunting wouldn't be sensible to use inside a spaceship, for instance.

What about local bias or opportunities concerning various ethnicities, genders, or skin colours? For example, in the Empire, it seems that females are barred from the line of succession as Heads of State; does this also apply to minor nobility/politicians, corporations, or its military? Is there anything else like that in the setting?

The bar on female succession is no longer in effect. Ethnicities and such are a bit messed up because with different planets you have a wider variety of shapes and sizes of humans due to different gravities. Religious differences still exist, as ever. But like most of the issues in today's world any divide is usually a front for underlying political motivations.

And speaking of the Empire - what exactly is it about those clones mentioned in some sources ... do they have a personality/free will like the Empire's indentured servants, or are they brainwashed "human robots" (a bit like the soldiers from The Fortress, if you remember)?

Spurious Federal propoganda which one should pay no heed to!

Also, the Empire and the Alliance seem to have split off from the Federation, but has the Federation "always" been there or did it rise out of a merger of formerly independent worlds late in the history of space colonisation?

According to the history provided with Frontier the Federation grew organically out of current Earth politics as humanity expanded out into the stars.

Are thargoids (provided they'll exist in ED as well) the only alien species encountered by humanity, or have other species simply been absorbed into the human sphere of influence?

There are many animal alien species encountered across many systems. In terms of sentient life there was one race in Imperial space which the early Empire genocided, forming the trigger for their split from the Federation. There have been items discovered hinting at other (potentially extinct) sentient species but there are no firm details. The vast majority of the galaxy is still unexplored of course - who knows what could be waiting out in the stars?

How advanced or gritty is the setting in other aspects of technology such as medicine, A.I., etc?

There's a mix of technological advances, but much of it is gritty. AIs are banned, and on official lines research into them is banned too. What unofficial stuff is out there is hard to say...

 

[Caylo]

Sounds good, thanks a lot for your input!

And I totally forgot about faiths ... good thing you mention it! Somehow I don't expect religion to be very common, but for those adhering to it, I assume it'll be the usual modern day Terran faiths? Or has there ever been a mention of some new religion that has developed either on a colony world or space itself?

 

[Susimetsa]

There are entire culture documents that Frontier has prepared for the writers. I assume that these will be published in due time, but - until then - we are not allowed to speak of their content.

Insofar as religions and faiths are concerned, there were some mentioned in Frontier: Elite II and Frontier First Encounters already. There are various sorts of cults out there, but atheism and agnosticism are the most popular ideologies by far.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

There are entire culture documents that Frontier has prepared for the writers. I assume that these will be published in due time, but - until then - we are not allowed to speak of their content.

Insofar as religions and faiths are concerned, there were some mentioned in Frontier: Elite II and Frontier First Encounters already. There are various sorts of cults out there, but atheism and agnosticism are the most popular ideologies by far.

Er, atheism is not an ideology. If anything it is the absence of an ideology.

 

[Susimetsa]

Er, atheism is not an ideology. If anything it is the absence of an ideology.

The problem with atheism is that it is a belief as much as religions are beliefs. (Certain breeds of) agnosticism, however, sidesteps the whole idea by saying that the existence or non-existence of gods and spirits and whatnot does not matter and they ignore the shenanigans completely - it is more "absence of an ideology" than atheism, for that reason.

 

[Dr Wookie]

Er, atheism is not an ideology. If anything it is the absence of an ideology.

Nonsense! Atheists have moral compasses and ethical systems too, just not religious ones. As the talky one out of Penn and Teller said, I and pillage and murder as much as I want, i.e. not at all.

 

[Susimetsa]

Nonsense! Atheists have moral compasses and ethical systems too, just not religious ones. As the talky one out of Penn and Teller said, I and pillage and murder as much as I want, i.e. not at all.

Good point. The tendency of certain religions to claim that they are the only ones with ethics and morals is a pet peeve of mine. As if the only reason we don't go around murdering and each other is that we might get punished in the after life for it...

 

[Oss133]

Hang on, where did I put my soapbox...

 

[Andrew Sayers]

As if the only reason we don't go around murdering and each other is that we might get punished in the after life for it...

Hmm, the afterlife may well have been the only time punishment was reliably meted out in pre-police society. Just as it would be in the anarchies of the 34th century.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

The problem with atheism is that it is a belief as much as religions are beliefs. (Certain breeds of) agnosticism, however, sidesteps the whole idea by saying that the existence or non-existence of gods and spirits and whatnot does not matter and they ignore the shenanigans completely - it is more "absence of an ideology" than atheism, for that reason.

Nonsense.
By definition atheism is a lack of belief. It may be splitting hairs, but to me there is a difference between "I do not believe in a God" and "I believe there is not a God". Otherwise belief becomes a word that is almost meaningless - is it a belief to think that Elvis is dead, or to not think that there are fairies at the bottom of my garden?

 

[Darren Grey]

This is completely irrelevant to the thread and to Elite.

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

Nonsense! Atheists have moral compasses and ethical systems too, just not religious ones.

Of course they do. I, too, get uppity when I see people claiming that without religion there would be no morals. But your comment appears to have no real connection with my post. Unless we are into nit picking on the dictionary definition of 'ideology' (as well as of 'belief').

Come on, FD, give us a new Alpha so we will have no time to waste discussing such matters!

 

[Dr Wookie]

Nonsense.
By definition atheism is a lack of belief. It may be splitting hairs, but to me there is a difference between "I do not believe in a God" and "I believe there is not a God". Otherwise belief becomes a word that is almost meaningless - is it a belief to think that Elvis is dead, or to not think that there are fairies at the bottom of my garden?

Nonsense !

Of course atheism is a belief that there is no divine being. Belief is independent of facts and reason, and cannot be treated in the same way. You can believe your football team will win the cup this time no trouble. You can believe that Justin Bieber is the best singer in the known universe. It is unnecessary to believe that Elvis is dead, because this is a fact.

Saying that atheism is not a belief is to say that none of the alternatives are either.

 

[Caylo]

It is unnecessary to believe that Elvis is dead, because this is a fact.

Have you seen his corpse?

There are disturbingly few "true facts" to life if we discount everything that is second (or third) hand knowledge, yet we still treat them that way because we see them as "true until proven otherwise". Personally, I don't see why a lack of belief in deities should not be treated the same way. After all, who gets to determine what is fact and what isn't?

This is a very individual thing, however, as I think we all have our own personal threshold on where we draw the line between "I guess" and "I'm sure". Ultimately, I'm approaching the subject from the perspective of faithlessness being the natural condition - how can you believe in something not existing if you don't know it even might exist to begin with? So, whereas belief in one or more deities or some divine principle is a trait that is added to the blank slate that is a new human, the so-called belief that they do not exist would simply be a continuation of the previous state, and not a "real" belief at all but rather the choice to discard any ideas of religion, effectively resetting themselves.

I vaguely recall agnosticism being defined as "I believe there are no gods", whereas atheism is defined as "I don't believe there are any gods", which is, in a way, two different ways to the same point. I kind of regard this as splitting hairs and an unnecessary sub-classification of the issue, but which one you think is more accurate it is a very philosophical and perhaps even personal question.

... whew, that was more than I actually felt to comment at first. I'm sorry, sometimes the words just keep flowing.

To bring this slightly back on track, does anyone remember any details about religions in Elite II and FEE? I have played the former, but for the love of gods (hah! ) I can't recall much as that was more than a decade ago.

 

[Geraldine]

Ok folks we are wondering a bit off the topic here. Could you please get the discussion back on to Elite related matters?
Thanks.

 

[Darren Grey]

There were a few religions mentioned in FE2, including the sect that became divided over whether to remove every follicle of hair or to never cut their hair.

 

[Vasious]

How much of the Journals from FE2 will be "reliable" as canon

Of course they aren't reliable in the sense they are full of in universe bias, but just the common themes such as

The Empire (over)uses DNA manipulation to customise workers for their job and environment, uses clone troopers and male pattern baldness plagues the Imperial line despite all the DNA manipulation.
The Federation at one point planned on removing the right to vote from those earning less than the median wage
Big game hunting is Popular
Some Big game hunters use firearms still (as opposed to lasers etc.) the venerable .303 (1460 odd years and going strong if it is the same .303 British) mentioned as a calibre limit in one.

There are android and android right organisations, and discrimination based on what percentage of robot one is if parts have been replaced (either form accident or to help with your job)

There seems to be a strong Anti-Technology movement or movements, with back to basic colonies.

and so forth

 

[Susimetsa]

I think they have held onto all those big themes and differences between factions.

 

[MrShadowfax]

The problem with atheism is that it is a belief as much as religions are beliefs. (Certain breeds of) agnosticism, however, sidesteps the whole idea by saying that the existence or non-existence of gods and spirits and whatnot does not matter and they ignore the shenanigans completely - it is more "absence of an ideology" than atheism, for that reason.

hmmm, sure THAT comment will pass with no controversy WHATSOEVER

Disagree completely, by the way.

EDIT: Slightly back on topic - Can anyone else not stand the word " 'verse?" anymore.
I KNOW it was used in Firefly a lot, and that was cool.
It's kinda lost that coolness now, being overused by fans of another franchise, shall we say.