Current Large ship balance analysis (Pre and Post 1.1)

Derath

D
Khan said:
Hence the "Reversing" section. Because it was so even, and the Conda has no reason to dog fight anything, the Python would come to the Conda, and be stuck in its gun sights, or attempting to get behind the conda and failing.

Thus the fight degraded into who had more cells, the better PD, and if the Conda could reliably land shots with the PA.

Regarding edit 2, I would not mind seeing the cargo amounts increase on the T7 and 9. Right now the moment you are able to move past these ships, you do, and the some 40 less cargo from T9 to Conda is not enough to put any real dent in profits.
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In the pre nerf python you could go 300m/s boosting top or bottom thrusters, I used it to hatch traders while they were fleeing in a straight line, all you'd have to do vs a conda is make sure you didn't get too far out that the angle became too shallow, only a bad pre nerf python would lose to a reversing conda and to be honest a bad python would lose to it if it was reversing or not! Despite the fact I pirated in a pre nerf python extensively I had very few interactions with anacondas as they either logged off, dropped cargo or immediately jumped out.

To be honest i'm not sure i ever found one with a combat loadout anyway its a bit of a strange way to play :p
 

Khan

Khan
Derath said:
In the pre nerf python you could go 300m/s boosting top or bottom thrusters, I used it to hatch traders while they were fleeing in a straight line, all you'd have to do vs a conda is make sure you didn't get too far out that the angle became too shallow, only a bad pre nerf python would lose to a reversing conda and to be honest a bad python would lose to it if it was reversing or not! Despite the fact I pirated in a pre nerf python extensively I had very few interactions with anacondas as they either logged off, dropped cargo or immediately jumped out.

To be honest i'm not sure i ever found one with a combat loadout anyway its a bit of a strange way to play :p
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It really is a odd pay to play. Not for everyone that's for sure. Not all that efficient either at anything but defense, since its so slow anyone outside of a T9 can run away before you can get the kill.

As for the Pre nerf python, I applied the same tactic to them as 1.1, and it way just as effective. No real difference in outcome against the some 30 people I have fought, outside of me wishing to turn the tides faster and going in for the ram and point blanking the PA. It always ended up in 1.7 a head to head for me, with tempo being the key and long term management of distribution and aim. Perhaps that's because the players I fought where biased, and stopped attempting to get behind me after the second or third attempt.

Perhaps I have only met bad pilots and my whole argument is flawed. Perhaps there is legitimately a way around a reversing conda with fixed guns that I am simply unaware of.

I sure hope there is.
 
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Farmboy

F
Hmm. Is not a reversing co da with fixed guns a bit more vulnerable to faster small ships or can't they get round the back of it either?

Either way if 1v1 is a reversing battle that may mean that more meaningful combats involve more than 2 ships. Vs two ships keeping both in front by reversing I would guess would be more of a challenge.

Indeed most 1v1 combats against non freighters being mostly a standoff is far from the worst design position to be in. The alternative are always flee or always die to a well piloted combat spec ship which outranks yours. It's not the best for pvp dogfights I grant and we can perhaps do better but there are a lot of other design traps to avoid too
 

Khan

Khan
Farmboy said:
Hmm. Is not a reversing co da with fixed guns a bit more vulnerable to faster small ships or can't they get round the back of it either?

Either way if 1v1 is a reversing battle that may mean that more meaningful combats involve more than 2 ships. Vs two ships keeping both in front by reversing I would guess would be more of a challenge.

Indeed most 1v1 combats against non freighters being mostly a standoff is far from the worst design position to be in. The alternative are always flee or always die to a well piloted combat spec ship which outranks yours. It's not the best for pvp dogfights I grant and we can perhaps do better but there are a lot of other design traps to avoid too
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Fighters cant get behind the conda, nothing can.
Same for the rest of the ships in the game.

Even 2, even 3 on 1, its still effective, if not the most effective way to deal with several opponents.

1v1 degrades into who has the stronger shields. Since repairs are crazy high post Asp.

As a dog fighting sim, the game fails, and that's its strongest post currently.
 
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Derath

D
Khan said:
It really is a odd pay to play. Not for everyone that's for sure. Not all that efficient either at anything but defense, since its so slow anyone outside of a T9 can run away before you can get the kill.

As for the Pre nerf python, I applied the same tactic to them as 1.1, and it way just as effective. No real difference in outcome against the some 30 people I have fought, outside of me wishing to turn the tides faster and going in for the ram and point blanking the PA. It always ended up in 1.7 a head to head for me, with tempo being the key and long term management of distribution and aim. Perhaps that's because the players I fought where biased, and stopped attempting to get behind me after the second or third attempt.

Perhaps I have only met bad pilots and my whole argument is flawed. Perhaps there is legitimately a way around a reversing conda with fixed guns that I am simply unaware of.

I sure hope there is.
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Im not entirely convinced there is anymore, a ship with the firepower to significantly damage a conda isn't going to be able to deal with it reversing, I know the python can't anymore is there really any other candidates? The clippers shields are so weak compared to conda/python frontload i'm not sure it could do anything either.
 

Khan

Khan
Derath said:
Im not entirely convinced there is anymore, a ship with the firepower to significantly damage a conda isn't going to be able to deal with it reversing, I know the python can't anymore is there really any other candidates? The clippers shields are so weak compared to conda/python frontload i'm not sure it could do anything either.
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In that regard, the clipper turns into a weaker Python, spends more time attempting to pass you, and is weak to chaff.

With the lack of options for class 3, its just pointless.

Whats worse, is that the Anaconda is not the only ship you can do this with, its just the one ship that's has drawbacks for when it does with its poor top speed. Anyone can run.

Why dog fight when reversing is so effective? Its not as effective when fighter craft do it with the presence of Rails and PA on class 2, but even then, that advantage is moot when the revereser uses them as well. Running becomes less of a option the farther down you go with ships, and this is where I have an issue with this. (Ironic considering it spawned from assessing large ships)

Since large ships can do it to each other, its just a simple progression up to the conda currently. None of the current selection has a role to fill, except being a weaker conda, with the Clipper being the sole exception for her speed.

This tends to happen when everything thats not a fighter craft is designed with defense in mind. There is no large ship warfare, just fighter craft, and defensive picket ships.
 
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