Ships Cutter Build - Any improvements?

[V'larr]

You said you are basically using this for trading and shipping around NPCs. So use it for that.

• Get rid all the stuff not related to hauling cargo. Replace all the unnecessary stuff with cargo racks.
• Keep whatever weapons you are comfortable with.
• If you get rid of the Kill Warrant Scanner, Fighter Hangar, SRV Hangar, and rescue limpet controller, you can G5 engineer your power plant Armored + Monstered and have enough power for G5 engineered 8A shields. Or 6A Engineered Prismatics with other minor changes.
• A-Rate G5 Engineer the shields, Why is it engineered enhanced low power? Go with Thermal Res, Hi Cap. Keep the boosters.
• Thrusters, change the special effect from stripped to Drag Drives
• Add the special effect Super Conduits to the power distributer
• Change the Hull Armor to Reactive Surface Composite, Engineered G5 Heavy Duty, Deep Plating.
• Replace the AFMU with a 3D Hull Reinforcement, Engineered G5 Thermal Resistant, Deep Plating. This is to balance the hull resistances. Or skip it for additional cargo rack.
• I like the wake scanner, until my material bins are full. Then replace it.
• Pledge Aisling Duval. Run the silly Power Play whatevers back-and-forth for 4 weeks so you can get the prismatic shields. Its super easy, just google it. You can then comfortably replace the 8A shields with 6A Prismatic shields G5 engineered thermal + Hi Cap. Giving you space for another size 8 cargo rack.

This ship will have enough shielding, if interdicted by pirates you fire your weapons until they blow up.

You can easily flip this into an excellent mining ship whenever you need one.

This is my Trade Cutter. I'm not very good at combat but this is easy. FA on, Keyboard & Mouse. Interdicting NPCs is not an issue. Notice no turret weapons. Just point the ship in the direction of the bad guys and fire the weapons.

Some things I want to add glancing at your build - Oversized as a weapon special is not real worthwhile. 3% more on-paper DPS (per-hardpoint) is not worth the cost of extra power draw (except maybe on the likes of cannons & PAs, and those have much better specials to think about); just taking that off your weapons would almost be enough to get you to Thermal Spread on the powerplant, though it's that Wake Scanner that's mostly hogging your power there.

Spare power draw, thanks to GSRPs, can always translate to extra shielding or other useful things that you'll feel a tangible benefit from, as opposed to that 3% on-paper DPS.

For Prismatic shields, you get further overall effective MJ mileage going with the Reinforced blueprint and using a couple thermal resist shield boosters. When using bi-weaves on a typical combat build, it's more of a personal preference toss-up between up-front protection against ramming/PAs, or the better resists (making regenerated MJs worth more) & thermal protection of the typical thermal-gen-50/50-res-aug-HD-boosters setup. I do favor the latter for combat-purpose fits.

Also, the reactive armor is a bit situational - if you have a HRP you can dedicate to balancing out the resists and want to safeguard yourself for persisting in combat if your shields drop, that's fine, but if your shields never drop and the point is mostly to protect you from those rare engineered NPC encounters with phasing, having raw hull is all that matters and technically you will get more out of HD military grade bulkheads + HRPs.

Ultimately everything depends on one's identified priorities, of course!

 

[Greasetrap42]

Some things I want to add glancing at your build - Oversized as a weapon special is not real worthwhile. 3% more on-paper DPS (per-hardpoint) is not worth the cost of extra power draw (except maybe on the likes of cannons & PAs, and those have much better specials to think about); just taking that off your weapons would almost be enough to get you to Thermal Spread on the powerplant, though it's that Wake Scanner that's mostly hogging your power there.

Good thoughts but in practice it just doesn't matter.

• This ship can shred any interdicting NPC pirates easily. It is massive overkill.
• I could put thermal spread on the power plant. Why? The ship doesn't get hot. Unless I run into a star.
• I need the monstered special effect on the power plant for when I put a Guardian FSD booster in the ship. Regardless of the wake scanner, which is not always installed or turned on.
• With 3 pips to weapons I can fire all weapons continuously for over 10 seconds* without discharging the capacitor and I will reach 60% heat. 10 seconds is a long time.
• Even though it is not built to be a combat ship I can enter a HAZ Res site and slaughter everything in site continuously. Using this exact build, no additional modules, just filled with cargo racks. I do need to periodically reboot the ship to reset the shields to 50%. Remember, this is supposed to be just a trade ship with 720 cargo space and defensive capability from occasional NPC interdictions. Chain interdictions from stacked missions might wittle the shields down, but I don't ever remember needing to reboot the ship to reset the shields during stacked trade runs.

* I Just checked. If I fire only the lasers with 3 pips it can go for 32 sec continuously until the capacitor is discharged. The heat builds up to 54%.

 

[vlazet]

here's my cutter hauler, just finished yesterday, relies exclusively on speed to run away from danger for max jump range and cargo capacity. Shieldless so I don't use it in the open

EDSY

EDSY is a ship outfitting tool for Elite Dangerous

edsy.org

 

[sinisalo]

When trading you generally visit the same systems over-and-over-and over. Because you are doing missions to nearby systems and increasing rep, to get better missions.

The cutter has only one size-1 slot. I rather have a flight assist. And for a trade ship I wouldn't waste a size 3 or size 4 slot on a DSS that will not get used again after visiting the nearby systems.

That DSS is getting a lot of blowback. But I'll keep it. It's earned me tens of millions

All ships have flight assist, not sure what you mean

 

[Greasetrap42]

That DSS is getting a lot of blowback. But I'll keep it. It's earned me tens of millions

All ships have flight assist, not sure what you mean

There are three 1-slot flight assist modules available in outfitting.

• Standard Docking Computer
• Advanced Docking Computer
• Supercruise Assist

Enjoy your 10's of millions!

 

[SergMx]

There are three 1-slot flight assist modules available in outfitting.

• Standard Docking Computer
• Advanced Docking Computer
• Supercruise Assist

Enjoy your 10's of millions!

Once the improved docking computer is introduced into the game, the standard docking computer is completely useless.

 

[V'larr]

Good thoughts but in practice it just doesn't matter.

• This ship can shred any interdicting NPC pirates easily. It is massive overkill.
• I could put thermal spread on the power plant. Why? The ship doesn't get hot. Unless I run into a star.
• I need the monstered special effect on the power plant for when I put a Guardian FSD booster in the ship. Regardless of the wake scanner, which is not always installed or turned on.
• With 3 pips to weapons I can fire all weapons continuously for over 10 seconds* without discharging the capacitor and I will reach 60% heat. 10 seconds is a long time.
• Even though it is not built to be a combat ship I can enter a HAZ Res site and slaughter everything in site continuously. Using this exact build, no additional modules, just filled with cargo racks. I do need to periodically reboot the ship to reset the shields to 50%. Remember, this is supposed to be just a trade ship with 720 cargo space and defensive capability from occasional NPC interdictions. Chain interdictions from stacked missions might wittle the shields down, but I don't ever remember needing to reboot the ship to reset the shields during stacked trade runs.

* I Just checked. If I fire only the lasers with 3 pips it can go for 32 sec continuously until the capacitor is discharged. The heat builds up to 54%.

Yeah I mean, at some level of engineering this is all finessing, since it's so overpowering in general, but the benefits can still be tangible. What you're able to do now, can be done a little faster/easier, and all that.

The thermal spread thing has to do with the intricacies of heat dissipation and the way it's tied together with how the distributor behaves, especially when firing high-heat weapons together - and aside from the blueprint & A-rating the powerplant, it's the only way to further raise the heat efficiency of the ship.

You don't need the monstered effect for the GFSD booster: it's a non-essential module for normal space, so you can safely put it on priority 5 so that it is disabled while hardpoints are deployed. The wake scanner, I'm not so sure about if you are using that in normal space, but you can downgrade it or use a different blueprint to reduce its power draw.

Sure you can do that with your weapons now, but it is possible to take it further so that you can also boost or use an SCB (though that doesn't necessarily apply for the armed haulers) while firing, or all at the same time without breaking 100% heat. It's nice for ease of use, if nothing else!

It's definitely a matter of how much you care to bother with the finessing - like you say, I've been able to take my Cutter and successfully kill the non-stop chain interdicting Anacondas from when you have a full stack of wing mining missions without ever losing shields or needing to reboot them. It's pretty neat

I still can't decide on what weapon loadout I like best, though. If only seekers/packhounds had more ammo duration, it's so little even with high capacity.

 

[V'larr]

Once the improved docking computer is introduced into the game, the standard docking computer is completely useless.

I do wish they'd just go ahead and wrap it all into 1 computer suite for quality of life reasons

 

[Greasetrap42]

Yeah I mean, at some level of engineering this is all finessing, since it's so overpowering in general, but the benefits can still be tangible. What you're able to do now, can be done a little faster/easier, and all that.

The thermal spread thing has to do with the intricacies of heat dissipation and the way it's tied together with how the distributor behaves, especially when firing high-heat weapons together - and aside from the blueprint & A-rating the powerplant, it's the only way to further raise the heat efficiency of the ship.

I am curious why you think it is a benefit for this particular trade ship to have greater heat efficiency? It doesn't currently have any thermal issues.Far from it. I don't see any pressing need to change the gimballed lasers & multicanon build. Would better heat efficiency increase its speed, jump range, cargo capacity, or capability against NPC pirates? What would be the tangible benefit? As opposed to the existing flexibility with available power for optional modules that get swapped in/out.

* I Just checked. If I fire only the lasers with 3 pips it can go for 32 sec continuously until the capacitor is discharged. The heat builds up to 54%.

 

[SergMx]

* I Just checked. If I fire only the lasers with 3 pips it can go for 32 sec continuously until the capacitor is discharged. The heat builds up to 54%.

I don't quite understand this sentence. The less energy in the PD, the more the weapon heats up.

 

[Greasetrap42]

I don't quite understand this sentence. The less energy in the PD, the more the weapon heats up.

Do you think there is any need to have the lasers firing for 32 seconds continuously? Meaning: Who cares? The distributor is fine and the ship doesn't heat up.This ship doesn't have thermal issues.

 

[Three Stars]

I am curious why you think it is a benefit for this particular trade ship to have greater heat efficiency? It doesn't currently have any thermal issues.Far from it. I don't see any pressing need to change the gimballed lasers & multicanon build. Would better heat efficiency increase its speed, jump range, cargo capacity, or capability against NPC pirates? What would be the tangible benefit? As opposed to the existing flexibility with available power for optional modules that get swapped in/out.

If you’re interested in better capability against NPC pirates, and since you don’t care about your own heat, then I’d suggest Thermal Shock on both of the beams, and optionally on the bursts. As long as you can maintain target contact with the beams it’ll slow your attacker. NPCs don’t like being at 90% heat and it inhibits their speed and behavior. Not that the NPCs pose much of a threat at full speed, but making them slow means you’re less likely to be out-turned in a Cutter, which also means you can destroy your attacker faster in spite of the 10% damage loss from that experimental effect.

The other thing you could do that I can think of is Inertial Impact on the bursts to give them more oomph. Again, killing your attacker and getting on with your life quicker is not a bad thing.

Fundamentally it’s your ship so do whatever you want, but sanding down the edges of a build can be fun.

 

[Greasetrap42]

If you’re interested in better capability against NPC pirates...

No, not really. That wasn't my question.

 

[V'larr]

I am curious why you think it is a benefit for this particular trade ship to have greater heat efficiency? It doesn't currently have any thermal issues.Far from it. I don't see any pressing need to change the gimballed lasers & multicanon build. Would better heat efficiency increase its speed, jump range, cargo capacity, or capability against NPC pirates? What would be the tangible benefit? As opposed to the existing flexibility with available power for optional modules that get swapped in/out.

Better heat efficiency, if you can get it, is generally useful for reasons I believe I've already thrown out - with the conclusion that it is always a benefit. So I think the question is rather "if you can obtain it without a tangible drawback, why not?"

If by "speed" we include being able to start the next FSD jump sooner without heat issue, there's a just-slight-enough-to-be-noticed benefit there if you're on a multi-jump route, and it will definitely help against NPC pirates as the benefits can be tangibly realized in general combat. The on-paper sustain & max heat shown on EDSY is both only an approximation (as told to me by taleden) and isn't the complete picture of heat & distributor interactions.

Outfitting flexibility is perhaps a thought, but I take the view that unused power is wasted power. There is most often several ways of obtaining the spare power necessary without compromising on heat efficiency, plus swapping the powerplant special back to monstered doesn't take too long if it becomes the case that I have no other option.

 

[V'larr]

If you’re interested in better capability against NPC pirates, and since you don’t care about your own heat, then I’d suggest Thermal Shock on both of the beams, and optionally on the bursts. As long as you can maintain target contact with the beams it’ll slow your attacker. NPCs don’t like being at 90% heat and it inhibits their speed and behavior. Not that the NPCs pose much of a threat at full speed, but making them slow means you’re less likely to be out-turned in a Cutter, which also means you can destroy your attacker faster in spite of the 10% damage loss from that experimental effect.

The other thing you could do that I can think of is Inertial Impact on the bursts to give them more oomph. Again, killing your attacker and getting on with your life quicker is not a bad thing.

Fundamentally it’s your ship so do whatever you want, but sanding down the edges of a build can be fun.

Thermal shock is nice, but Inertial Impact introduces extreme jitter, and you don't want that - even if you were to use it in a faster ship that can control the engagement distance and minimize the accuracy penalty (which the Cutter certainly is not), you can't subtarget modules with it effectively, and being able to hit the FSD & powerplant is a key part of efficiently dispatching NPC pirates.

It can be a good combo with Cytoscramblers, though.

 

[Three Stars]

Thermal shock is nice, but Inertial Impact introduces extreme jitter, and you don't want that - even if you were to use it in a faster ship that can control the engagement distance and minimize the accuracy penalty (which the Cutter certainly is not), you can't subtarget modules with it effectively, and being able to hit the FSD & powerplant is a key part of efficiently dispatching NPC pirates.

It can be a good combo with Cytoscramblers, though.

I was looking at it from a pure damage perspective, mostly because I wouldn’t be relying on medium efficient bursts to do more than incidental module damage. He already has the huge multicannon and the large beams for big hits. If I wanted a medium laser that’s good at modules I’d pick rapid fire pulses. The more module hits you get the more breach rolls you get, which means more breach rolls that proportionately (40-80%) succeed, which means the more potential power plant malfunction rolls you get when the PP integrity is zero.

 

[V'larr]

I was looking at it from a pure damage perspective, mostly because I wouldn’t be relying on medium efficient bursts to do more than incidental module damage. He already has the huge multicannon and the large beams for big hits. If I wanted a medium laser that’s good at modules I’d pick rapid fire pulses. The more module hits you get the more breach rolls you get, which means more breach rolls that proportionately (40-80%) succeed, which means the more potential power plant malfunction rolls you get when the PP integrity is zero.

It doesn't really matter that they're medium efficient bursts, corrosive exists, so it remains significant damage against hull & modules. If you're thinking about powerplant malfunction rolls, you want accurate hits on the subtargeted module. Both rapid fire and Inertial Impact add jitter which reduce the number of hits on the module you're getting in practice, and rapid fire is significantly worse on the distributor, which means less sustained fire and less hits being maintained that way.

Like, rolling for breach chances isn't really significant against all the other benefits of Efficient. Maintaining hardpoint uptime - all of your available hardpoints - on target, especially accurately onto subtargeted modules, will vaporize them swiftly regardless of worrying about that aspect to that degree.

 

[SergMx]

It doesn't really matter that they're medium efficient bursts, corrosive exists, so it remains significant damage against hull & modules. If you're thinking about powerplant malfunction rolls, you want accurate hits on the subtargeted module. Both rapid fire and Inertial Impact add jitter which reduce the number of hits on the module you're getting in practice, and rapid fire is significantly worse on the distributor, which means less sustained fire and less hits being maintained that way.

Like, rolling for breach chances isn't really significant against all the other benefits of Efficient. Maintaining hardpoint uptime - all of your available hardpoints - on target, especially accurately onto subtargeted modules, will vaporize them swiftly regardless of worrying about that aspect to that degree.

For example the FDL meta, and why would it corrode ?
Plasma and rails have a penetration of 100.

 

[BetaToaster]

Better heat efficiency, if you can get it, is generally useful for reasons I believe I've already thrown out - with the conclusion that it is always a benefit. So I think the question is rather "if you can obtain it without a tangible drawback, why not?"

That wasn't the premise, tho. You advocated for dropping Oversized, which comes with the tangible drawback of losing 3% DPS, .i.e. increasing your combat times by at least 3% on average.
More DPS is never wasted, as long as you shoot things. Better heat efficiency is only an improvement if it makes you do something you otherwise would avoid out of fear of module damage.

 

[V'larr]

That wasn't the premise, tho. You advocated for dropping Oversized, which comes with the tangible drawback of losing 3% DPS, .i.e. increasing your combat times by at least 3% on average.
More DPS is never wasted, as long as you shoot things. Better heat efficiency is only an improvement if it makes you do something you otherwise would avoid out of fear of module damage.

That's 3% damage, on paper, for that singular hardpoint it is applied to. In actual practice that is not a benefit that you'll ever realize compared to what the spare power can achieve for you.

Heat efficiency is a complex mechanic with lots of subtle interactions with how your distributor works. It's not "only if", it is always an improvement.