This. Also OP look for an interesting minor faction and stay in their area of power if you want to get attached to them.
Cutting on minor factions number?
- Thread starter darshie76
- Start date
This. Also OP look for an interesting minor faction and stay in their area of power if you want to get attached to them.
I am totally grateful that it is a game; if it was a simulation, most likely it would be too boring
I make a parallel with regular MMOs...I know that ED is not an MMO in the standard way, but the basics are mostly there.
Other MMO have quests, here we have missions; other MMO have factions, here we have factions....in both ways you end up grinding materials to make objects, or you run missions to raise your standing. The difference thou is that in a regular MMO, you may have 8-10. 15 factions at most, and they are all usually integrated in the main quest line, so you can finish their quest at the same time of the main line, or at later time.
ED is 10^9 bigger, most likely (I think LOTRO is the game with largest map size, several hours using a horse from corner to corner), so we talk on a different scale; which is why I think Frontier went for the route of go crazy with their number. I also can't take all the missions, so I get what I can; trying to keep things in my "moral alignment". I play not that much, so I have less missions open to me; the fact that they are not even chained; is another factor that makes hard for me to settle with a specific faction and get involved with it.
Your way is a way to play; although I am curious to see if you stop doing anything, what happens. I suspect that developers made the algorithm to self balance, so when one faction is overcoming the other, the table turns; which to an external observer, seems like a system that evolve and react; while in reality is just scripted to give the effect. If that is the case; no matter what faction you pick; it is the same; and in that case won't be better to have fewer factions? You play different from me so I don't know if that would be a minus or not.
Powerplay should be rewritten as mission chain story based, IMO. You join a power, follow their story, do sequences of missions tied to each other, and achieve a result. Other factions undo what you do, and the whole wheel spin around. The power with more players of course prevail, like in real world after all. And this won't force anyone to do whatever they want, as we all do nowadays.
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That would totally work for me; call yourself whatever you want, but you all belong to one conglomerate that I can identify as guild, faction and such.
Point is it all looks the same and you don't care about it until you stop and engage with it for a while.
The faceless mass of people we ignore every day are each a special unique snowflake.
It's the same with systems and minor factions.
If you had told me a year ago that I would be prepared to clunk away for hours at spreadsheets and databases over something with a proceduraly generated name, I would not have believed you.
I deeply care about the minor factions I support.
But they are no different to the ones I don't care about.
Stalin said: "one death is a tragedy but a million deaths is a statistic"
Where you are seeing a million things that are basically the same - I see the one thing among a million that I will plot and dream and fight for.
I am no different to anyone else, I'm the same as the other 7 billion hungry apes on this rock.
But if you engage with me, if we become friends or enemies, then I become special to you.
You get out what you put in.
For Example:
Originally Posted by the100thmonkey
FD do like to withhold information - there's still no official BGS manual after 18 months, and there probably never will be. They like players to work things out for themselves.
One of the AEDC members wrote a guide recently:
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=674706524
It's a ripper read.
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I see the tie between engineers and factions, as something that story wise and lore wise, make sense; but you must have a clear definition of which faction to contact.
As example; say that you want to get a magic sword in Middle Earth: you can go to Dwarves in one of their location, so I know that I need the friend standing with them. Or go to Rivendell to have the high elves to make my weapon, hence I fortify that faction investing with them. This is fine for me, as long as I know the faction. As long as the faction is clearly stated, I am willing to grind to get to know the engineer.
I am eager to see what details we will get; Beta after all is around the corner after all
As example; say that you want to get a magic sword in Middle Earth: you can go to Dwarves in one of their location, so I know that I need the friend standing with them. Or go to Rivendell to have the high elves to make my weapon, hence I fortify that faction investing with them. This is fine for me, as long as I know the faction. As long as the faction is clearly stated, I am willing to grind to get to know the engineer.
I am eager to see what details we will get; Beta after all is around the corner after all
My issue with the whole reputation system, is that it is not structured as they want to show it. We have factions: fine; it is understandable, but in the end is a 2-3 systems affair; it is like the politician loved in his neighborhood, that goes against other politicians from other neighborhoods. The problem is that then the thing stop there. In real world; at one point a power start to rise; when competitors are eliminated, and alliances are forged, you see a trend in factions rising in power and acquiring ownership and control.
That's fantastic...but from what I see, it does not happen in ED. After 2 years, with us helping this or that faction, I would expect to see factions rising; gaining control; then expanding, so it is not anymore a guy from the neighborhood against another; it is the guy from many neighborhood, going against someone to gain a seat in the Chamber or in Senate. The conflict stretch; minor forces are wiped out. And so on...so we are actively pushing what happens in the universe.
Then you have powerplay: these are like the big superpowers that do their own business and eventually go against each other: so you see factions maybe getting under the influence of one powerplay faction, to get help; this drive conflicts to certain areas, and let other areas to flourish. Big space battles, big ground battles on planets among factions; to conquer this or that strategic position.
This would be organic, and would reduce factions; instead we see nowadays that this does not happen; and that's why, if we have to keep the current system, I would gladly see less factions instead.
You mention strategy games; but I would love to see that in the BGS; but so far, I see that it is more like a tug of war where neither side will ever be the absolute winner; independently from how much time you may invest in it.
And if I am wrong, I would expect to see the universe changing in a certain way; this must happen at one point in time; I am out there looking for signs of it. Maybe I will get back from an exploration trip and find that most of the minor factions are gone, and finally the scale of the factions start to grow as it should.
I never said that the devs left the game unfinished, to not be bothered; I said that is easier to leave stuff in a vague state, compared to finish something to the point of perfection. To me, they did great with the only part of the game that is fully fleshed out: combat. the rest, was add but as placeholder. I invite you to look around the forum, and see how many people are saying the same thing, in a way or another; so it is not me being harsh; I am just being realistic.
Piracy, smuggling, mining, are clearly placeholders; the basics are in place, but all the sugar around is not there yet; since they will add it little by little with updates. There is no way to finish everything and be perfect; Frontier is not EA, and even EA is releasing half baked stuff (sim city?), being probably 10x bigger than Frontier. They made the best with the time that they had available....they don't sell ships, so to survive you need a product to sell, and you need expansions.
I do wish more narrative, but not as cutscene or as cinematic...I crave experiences that you may encounter in any space saga. It can be an event; you can chain mission with brief narrative to explain why you take tobacco from A to B, and end up with the cargo being something different, framed and run away, trying to figure out what happened. I don't think that it would ruin the game, because if people don't care, and want to play Elite 2015, which is carbon copy of Elite with shiny graphic, they can do that, ignoring the mission chain.
I believe what people do not want, is a purely narrative driven game, and I agree on that. I did mention Skyrim, Witcher and GTA on purpose: you can play such games as you want
NMS is coming in few months; and it seems that it will have all the features in it. The demos show that the gameplay is all there; and while it has a much simpler combat system and oriented more on exploring (which is my main thing), they did cram a lot of stuff in there... the developer is not much bigger than the team that did Space Engieer, and that should make you think what could be done with ED, if someone would be bolder.
I criticize what I see could be done better; you shout at your favorite team because you want them to be successful after all; and you get mad when you know their potential, but see that they didn't do their best.
Err, dumb point to raise RE: the OP maybe, but...
Isn't the OP's problem (having to repeat the grind for faction after faction after faction) what the superpowers (being Alliance, Federation and Empire) are for?
You get allied with Federation, you're allied to all federal minor factions (in principle, some functions like colouring don't always work)? I use this to my advantage all the time when getting dump-missions (ship goods X-Y, abandon, sell cargo for instant gain(
Isn't the OP's problem (having to repeat the grind for faction after faction after faction) what the superpowers (being Alliance, Federation and Empire) are for?
You get allied with Federation, you're allied to all federal minor factions (in principle, some functions like colouring don't always work)? I use this to my advantage all the time when getting dump-missions (ship goods X-Y, abandon, sell cargo for instant gain(
Ok, now I see what you mean. Although you assume that I never tried...I did try some time ago, maybe it is time to try again.
I do not ignore the potential; but you make an association that while logic, fail on the point of the values compared. A person is a snowflake to discover; a faction is an instance of a class that has a different name but run the same algorithm as any other faction in the game.
I do theorize that the simulation goes on forever, without any intervention of the players, and I wish I could confirm or deny it. IF you improve a faction and then stop doing anything; I suspect the system will go in equilibrium again, with each faction getting the upper hand, alternating at the top of the food chain, while the system change state accordingly. That's why I say that I find hard to get attached. I assume that I won't be surprised by a computer program, that hasn't been implemented to surprise me, while I would never assume anything about a person, until I know the person.
As mentioned by other users; there are different ways to get engaged in the game; to me the lesser factions I see, the more I see them grow, the more I want to be part of the expansion (or take the side of the weak, as resistance); it depends from the situation...and from what narrative the factions communcate you. Since there is none; it is hard to really care about anything in the end. It is my limit, I agree; but I don't believe I am the only one
I am waiting for the day when we hungry apes, will walk off the ship and meet in a bar, in our first person mode; talking and chatting and then either become friends or enemies. Some compensate that with the choice to care about a faction, making up their reasons...that's legit; but it takes a specific mentality in a specific player to do that; and I believe that it should be a choice, not a forced solution, because there is no other solution. If you know what I mean.
Reducing factions number and make them more influent on a larger number of systems, would not fix issues; but would make the simulation more engaging IMO. There is no magic formula to make everyone happy, but I always prefer a choice, to a forceful solutionf or lack of choices.
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Well, I do not play powerplay at all; that is grinding ++ with cream on top
While factions rep stay up, even if you don't play; powerplay values just go down if you don't grind like one of the seven dwarves in the mine. That is what Sisyphus was sentenced to do, when sent to the underworld....pushing a boulder up the hill, to then see it rolling down again.
My point was more on how reducing factions would improve the feeling of actually be part of something bigger and see the results of it at a scale that goes beyond few systems.
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Didn't mention Powerplay,, the superpowers (Alliance, Federation, Empire) have been in the game since day dot and have nothing to do with Powerplay.
It might clear things up as I refer to them as "Major Factions", but FD tried to define terms in their recent BGS stream as follows:
Superpowers - The Alliance, Federation and Empire
Power - "Powerplay" groups such as Torval, Antal, etc.
Faction - (aka Minor Faction), the groups you see in system influence displays like "HIP 19715 Gold Rats", "HIP 19715 Empire League" etc.
If you run a mission for a faction that belongs to a superpower, you gain rep with that superpower. When you hit "Friendly" with that superpower, you're considered friendly to all factions which belong to that superpower. Again, nothing to do with Powerplay, but your efforts with, say, a federal faction in Sol, will definitely get recognised by another federal faction on the rim, no grinding needed AKA that feeling of being in something bigger.
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No, it really isn't - some factions are the controlliung faction in more than ten systems.
I am totally grateful that it is a game; if it was a simulation, most likely it would be too boring
I make a parallel with regular MMOs...I know that ED is not an MMO in the standard way, but the basics are mostly there.
Other MMO have quests, here we have missions; other MMO have factions, here we have factions....in both ways you end up grinding materials to make objects, or you run missions to raise your standing. The difference thou is that in a regular MMO, you may have 8-10. 15 factions at most, and they are all usually integrated in the main quest line, so you can finish their quest at the same time of the main line, or at later time.
ED is 10^9 bigger, most likely (I think LOTRO is the game with largest map size, several hours using a horse from corner to corner), so we talk on a different scale; which is why I think Frontier went for the route of go crazy with their number. I also can't take all the missions, so I get what I can; trying to keep things in my "moral alignment". I play not that much, so I have less missions open to me; the fact that they are not even chained; is another factor that makes hard for me to settle with a specific faction and get involved with it.
Your way is a way to play; although I am curious to see if you stop doing anything, what happens. I suspect that developers made the algorithm to self balance, so when one faction is overcoming the other, the table turns; which to an external observer, seems like a system that evolve and react; while in reality is just scripted to give the effect. If that is the case; no matter what faction you pick; it is the same; and in that case won't be better to have fewer factions? You play different from me so I don't know if that would be a minus or not.
Powerplay should be rewritten as mission chain story based, IMO. You join a power, follow their story, do sequences of missions tied to each other, and achieve a result. Other factions undo what you do, and the whole wheel spin around. The power with more players of course prevail, like in real world after all. And this won't force anyone to do whatever they want, as we all do nowadays.
Poweplay is story based... the story unfolds depending on player actions... only it is different from regular 'mmo' styling in that the story is not repeatable for each player the story unfolds depending somewhat on the actions of all the players doing powerplay...
The majority of the mission system for ED is also procedural so no 'quest lines' are available and really none ever were done in the previous games with the exception of certain hand scripted ones akin to the Community Goal missions in ED which are hand crafted.
From what you describe, it seems like you have spent most of your gaming enjoying DnD type games and those with scripted story lines and sub quests etc that gives you a sense of progression as you achieve them, ED is very very different to that type of game and in fact the whole franchise has never been that type of game... The sense of progression has always been what you personally view as your goals to play and what you achieve in the pursuit of fulfilling those goals...
I have many and had many different goals for my commander, depending on the current aims and play style I am engaging in or some other aspect of the game... Right now my goal is to try and reach Elite in exploration - from Ranger level) or in the least as close to elite as I can get on this journey out in the black...
When I get back, my previous goals of getting my minor faction to expand into another system will take priority for a while and once that goal is reached, it will change to taking control of that system...
By having fluid and reachable goals, I find that I do not get bored of the game, I do not tend to feel like I am grinding my way to anything, in fact part of my playstyle is once I get bored doing something I go do something else for a while...
Ummm you do realise he / she was describing Power Play right?
Maybe it started with only 1 faction. I have seen these systems.
I want to be able to expunge certain minor factions from my minor factions systems, but have not found a way to do it sadly :/
I interpreted the 'retreat' state as a a case of for example, if a foreign faction is consistantly below a threshold % (5%? maybe) for a sustained period of time (1 month? maybe), then it will automatically retreat back to its home world. This would remove the congestion issue due to the number of factions in some systems.
I don't see how you will have to work to the point of expelling all factions from a system, as all systems have at least one 'homeworld' faction (unless the system is bugged) as far as I am aware. So it would be impossible.
Push their influence right down until they are in last place in your home system, then arrange an expansion from a neighbouring system. If the system has more than five factions, the lowest influence faction should now be displaced. With the retreat mechanic, it should become possible to then remove the faction that expanded into your system. This is, of course, provided there aren't rules involved in the mechanic such as "systems with five factions or fewer are not retreated from."
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The lowest influence faction in systems with five or more factions in it is displaced when another faction invades the system. If a system has had more than five inward expansions, it would be theoretically possible to displace native factions entirely from a system, barring any hidden rules to the game.
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I have never seen a step-by-step guide from anyone who has deliberately done this and succeeded, but I imagine the process is:
- Your system must already have the maximum number of factions present (whatever that is - apparently, each system has a different maximum number of factions). If they don't, go to nearby systems and keep expanding new foreign factions into your system until you hit the maximum.
- Beat the unwanted faction down until it has the lowest rep in the system.
- Go to another nearby system and encourage the expansion of another foreign faction into your system.
- When the new invader arrives, they should take the place of the least popular faction.
Note that doing this you can never turn your system into a one-party state, you can only replace an undesirable rival faction with a less undesirable rival faction. I believe the Alliance cohort has managed to do this in the Lahasim system, turning it into a pure Alliance-Only Zone.
An example of the "exiled" faction I was talking about which I encountered before is the Traditional LP 245-17 Law Party, an Indie dictatorship which no longer exists in the LP 245-17 system, though still exists in Hecate (which contains 8 factions). LP 245-17 contains 7 factions, only 2 of which are native.
Edit: Ninjaed by over an hour. Type too slow.
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Okay I now see how that theoretically could work, but I think thats a large stretch. Also the original questioner was talking about how 'Retreat' will force him to work the system to the point of expunging all from a system bar his faction. I don't see the why? And still don't.
From what I got from the Livefeed, Retreat will only be active to 'Foreign' factions in a system, and send them home without the need for another coming in to displace it.
Actually.
You know what is better than taking missions from a bulletin board or from an in game picture?
Getting missions from the strategists in your player group.
The Alliance Elite Diplomatic Corps has campaigns that are running for months. They are broken down into individual operations and posted on our squad board. The operations have a random name generator that is seeded with some pretty funny nouns and adjectives.
For example - recently I signed up for Operation Silent Penguin. This operation was to fly to [sensitive] and do missions only for minor faction [redacted].
I ran four missions and called it a night. Other AEDC CMDRs did a bunch more and the operation was complete.
The operation moved the influence of that minor faction and helped the strategic goal in some concrete way.
That's the best.
And then if you want to know why, there is a discussion thread that talks about what that set of operations is trying to achieve.
And there's a real person behind the mission.
You can talk with them.
Sometimes they make mistakes. Have you heard Vectron blaming himself out on the Mahon Reddit when there is some major disaster?
Not that Vectron is AEDC, but he's good mates and a fine example.
The Alliance Office of Statistics also does operations and tasks, but their focus is different.
When you are in a Player Group (especially the AEDC), you care about the minor factions a lot.
DNA-Decay
(Alliance Office of Statistics - Kitchen Staff Supervisor)
(AEDC - Data Entry Clerk Second Class)
You know what is better than taking missions from a bulletin board or from an in game picture?
Getting missions from the strategists in your player group.
The Alliance Elite Diplomatic Corps has campaigns that are running for months. They are broken down into individual operations and posted on our squad board. The operations have a random name generator that is seeded with some pretty funny nouns and adjectives.
For example - recently I signed up for Operation Silent Penguin. This operation was to fly to [sensitive] and do missions only for minor faction [redacted].
I ran four missions and called it a night. Other AEDC CMDRs did a bunch more and the operation was complete.
The operation moved the influence of that minor faction and helped the strategic goal in some concrete way.
That's the best.
And then if you want to know why, there is a discussion thread that talks about what that set of operations is trying to achieve.
And there's a real person behind the mission.
You can talk with them.
Sometimes they make mistakes. Have you heard Vectron blaming himself out on the Mahon Reddit when there is some major disaster?
Not that Vectron is AEDC, but he's good mates and a fine example.
The Alliance Office of Statistics also does operations and tasks, but their focus is different.
When you are in a Player Group (especially the AEDC), you care about the minor factions a lot.
DNA-Decay
(Alliance Office of Statistics - Kitchen Staff Supervisor)
(AEDC - Data Entry Clerk Second Class)
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dynamicbob
Banned
Operation noisy penguin would be useful
All faction names must be approved with Crayola Crayon.
by expunge I mean I can easily take a faction down to zero percent influence in my home system - done it numerous times... IMHO when a minor faction is at zero influence for a given period of time it should be expunged... Not talking about bringing in other factions, not talking about retreating back to their home system as it is in their home system I wish to expunge them and just leave my minor faction in control etc
Sure it should not be an easy feat. Perhaps there should be negative influence - the current system is 0 - 100% influence, now if it was -100% to + 100% influence, then a faction at -100% influence would by rights be hunted down in the system and expunged surely
I can dream can't I I know it won't happen...
Sure it should not be an easy feat. Perhaps there should be negative influence - the current system is 0 - 100% influence, now if it was -100% to + 100% influence, then a faction at -100% influence would by rights be hunted down in the system and expunged surely
I can dream can't I
I know it won't happen...