Powerplay Faction: Aisling Duval Cycle 270 - The "Woooo!" Edition

[Hunter Silves]

Greetings, Commanders!

Once again, we achieved all goals last week! Good job, commanders! o7
This edition is dedicated to Bitterwhaler, the least bitter manatee in AD. A force of good will since I joined!

Goals (UPDATED 1st of August) for this week:

• Vote for Consolidation! Voting is the most important thing you can do for AD, so make sure to maintain rank 2!
• Check the Trello for dynamic fortification targets! This is updated more frequently than the in-game menu.
• Oppose (meaning fight even past 100%) the Winters expansion in Oscabi! The closest control system is Mahiko for turn-in, or Kaukhe for L pad.
• Prepare Ts'ai Shai for the remainder of the week from Syntheng (80 ly, 730 ls), Kavalliyala (33 ly, 25,409 ls) or HIP 109468 (49.6 ly, 227 ls, planetary)

If you want to become more involved, get more in-depth information, or have questions, join Aisling Duval Comms:
-Discord Invite
-Slack Application
-FAQ

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

Any mention that good sportmanship require doing power play in open would be nice once every 5 years from imps, just saying.

 

[Hunter Silves]

Any mention that good sportmanship require doing power play in open would be nice once every 5 years from imps, just saying.

It's a real shame that's the common response to being defeated in PP, given how weak of an argument it is. I could give examples of how it's wrong, or how I could say the same for feds, but honestly that'd just be feeding the troll. I do wish you luck, though! Friendly competition is something I highly encourage.
Maybe I'll see you during an opposition! o7

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

So still no official encouragement to play PP in open from empire, sad. Maybe we should have 2 seperate galaxies, everybody play own way....

 

[Leadfoot]

Any mention that good sportmanship require doing power play in open would be nice once every 5 years from imps, just saying.

Well, it's mentioned on a regular basis on the Slack forums (not a "requirement" per se, but it IS recommended). When recommended, some players are still skittish about playing in open because lots of them are not PvP-oriented and don't care to get blown up a lot by experienced players with over-engineered ships. I know I sure don't enjoy it. I do PP in open because it's SUPPOSED to be affected by players and opposed by the same. Other people will play their own way. Can't force it.

It would also be nice if the 5C players working against the princess would actually play in open, too. Just saying.

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

Like i said, it would be better if we have 2 seperate galaxies. We, as FUC see PP as multilayer PvP endgame content, only thing that is not availble in other in game activities, not just some opt in grind with diffrent names for this grind. Power paly not offer anything diffrent in terms of gameplay from rest of the game, and doing PP in solo just degrede it to another boring grind, IMO its bad not only becouse its not entertraining for a lot of estabilished palyers, but also becouse it narrows future player base, as those who may seek for something what PP should be, turn to other games. Rant over.

 

[Leadfoot]

I've already suggested that FD should re-do the CQC server (that no one uses) and set that one up for nothing but Power Play activity, all in open-only. Would be better if it was cross-platform but no one knows when that'll happen, do we? Once we can all see who's working FOR our power and who's working AGAINST our power (no matter who you are pledged to) it becomes a better playing field.

There will always be players that refuse to play in anything but Solo because they don't want to be someone else's entertainment. As long as FD (not Power Play "powers") allows Solo or PG modes, they'll be used, like it or not.

 

[Mo Mo]

Some of our squadrons, such as AWC, have an open-only policy, and we also encourage the general community to play in open. However, everybody bought their own game, they're entitled to play it using whatever mode they like. If you want to dictate how other people play their game, then perhaps you should buy it for them.

Also it is strange that we hardly ever see Winters haulers in open, just the merit counts going up...must be network/instancing issues...

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

So 50% merit bonus to PP done in open and removal (changes) of block function is ok, right?

 

[Mo Mo]

So 50% merit bonus to PP done in open and removal (changes) of block function is ok, right?

Can't speak for the wider community, but yes, for me personally, something like that would be agreeable.

 

[Vetinari]

I play XB and no matter how hard I look I havent seen any PP enemies from PS or PC yet....so we need 3 separate PP Galaxies at least, x 3 for each mode, whoopee minimum 9 PP Galaxies....or you could just stop whining and play the game.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I play XB and no matter how hard I look I havent seen any PP enemies from PS or PC yet....so we need 3 separate PP Galaxies at least, x 3 for each mode, whoopee minimum 9 PP Galaxies....or you could just stop whining and play the game.

The argument is really that even in your own chosen reality, no NPCs try to have a go at you either gathering merits or delivering materials.

 

[Vetinari]

No but combat players (like I did PP) get a PP bounty that NPC ships attack for, non combat avoid combat altogether. It is a bit of an oddity compared to hauling normal cargo and npc pirates I accept but some of it is within safe space so the Power is stopping the attacks maybe..

Just saying thats how it is, a player can choose their PP role. I know you have suggested convoy and protection like advancements before to not allow this. I think PP was sold at some point as a place for mutual PVP but it always assumed the mutual bit, some traders (paying players) still wont want PVP or PVP protection anyway.

But the overall point was it could be me in Open on XB doing PP and not somebody hiding in PG or Solo, although Im sure some do. Its pointless getting worked up over something that you have no evidence for.

 

[Rubbernuke]

No but combat players (like I did PP) get a PP bounty that NPC ships attack for, non combat avoid combat altogether. It is a bit of an oddity compared to hauling normal cargo and npc pirates I accept but some of it is within safe space so the Power is stopping the attacks maybe..

Just saying thats how it is, a player can choose their PP role. I know you have suggested convoy and protection like advancements before to not allow this. I think PP was sold at some point as a place for mutual PVP but it always assumed the mutual bit, some traders (paying players) still wont want PVP or PVP protection anyway.

But the overall point was it could be me in Open on XB doing PP and not somebody hiding in PG or Solo, although Im sure some do. Its pointless getting worked up over something that you have no evidence for.

You miss the point: in Powerplay you have two 'sides'- gathering, and delivering.This nonsense about not wanting combat is pish because Powerplay is about direct competition regardless of your powers way of doing it- plus you all UM using violence. NPCs are supposed to offer a challenge at some point but don't, thanks to EDs structural problems (persistence, drop zones to stations, engineering). In short PP NPCs are crap and pose no danger.

In solo and homogeneous PG (i.e. groups with all allied players) you get the advantage of weak enemies, wing merits but no opposition.

In Open, in all areas you can have opportunistic attacks from players (who are standing in for NPCs in this case).

Unless FD change PP its going to remain the uneven grind race its always been. Its like a hurdle race- except some competitors choose to have no hurdles while others have a full set.

 

[Vetinari]

Youre mixing up more than one thing there:

NPC difficulty - connected but not inherent to PP, reduced because of many many posts demanding that NPCs be easier or we get more powerful weapons to kill them easier we both know that.

Not every person in an army is a combateer, they may have had basic training so that in an emergency they can fight, or they may have exceptional circumstantial reasons that mean they are never expected to take up arms and actually fight (Army Chaplains and Medical Corps who have taken Hippocratic Oath are excepted).

So these deliverers and haulers are the logistics corps, the chaplains, the cooks, the mechanics, the PR people, the secretaries and everyone else who is not fighting on the front line even in a war usually. Often on the home front they dont need protection to move things around. Maybe in expansion zones and such then yes, but not between Control and Home....usually. So its not nonsense Im afraid, it just doesnt fit into your idea of how a war works or how PP should work. Trying to force any player to do anything just will not work.

PP was sold as consensual PVP, the fact that most people who do PP dont even put themselves into a situation where PVP is possible does not point to flaws in PP, it points to the number of people unwilling to engage or try PVP.

The problem with Christianity is that God looked down and saw a shepherd herding sheep, if hed seen a goatherd he have known that goats need to be led.....try leading people not herding them, you'll get a better response and result.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Youre mixing up more than one thing there:

NPC difficulty - connected but not inherent to PP, reduced because of many many posts demanding that NPCs be easier or we get more powerful weapons to kill them easier we both know that.

Not every person in an army is a combateer, they may have had basic training so that in an emergency they can fight, or they may have exceptional circumstantial reasons that mean they are never expected to take up arms and actually fight (Army Chaplains and Medical Corps who have taken Hippocratic Oath are excepted).

So these deliverers and haulers are the logistics corps, the chaplains, the cooks, the mechanics, the PR people, the secretaries and everyone else who is not fighting on the front line even in a war usually. Often on the home front they dont need protection to move things around. Maybe in expansion zones and such then yes, but not between Control and Home....usually. So its not nonsense Im afraid, it just doesnt fit into your idea of how a war works or how PP should work. Trying to force any player to do anything just will not work.

PP was sold as consensual PVP, the fact that most people who do PP dont even put themselves into a situation where PVP is possible does not point to flaws in PP, it points to the number of people unwilling to engage or try PVP.

The problem with Christianity is that God looked down and saw a shepherd herding sheep, if hed seen a goatherd he have known that goats need to be led.....try leading people not herding them, you'll get a better response and result.

Then you are confused about Powerplay, which is understandable considering its been left to rot for so long.

NPC difficulty is about providing some form of pushback once you are outside of a themed CZ or delivering fort / expansion / cargo, otherwise its milk run grind racing. I have never heard of anyone actually losing a shipment of Powerplay materials in five years to an NPC, meaning delivery is near to 100% certain in Solo and PG.

It does not matter what you are doing in Powerplay, all of it is to push your power above another- making you a target for other power pledges or NPCs. However NPCs don't actually provide any danger (enabling issues like the bot fiasco with Mahon, or AFK in PG).

Not every person in an army is a combateer

You are applying to much thought to this- PP you are either someone trying to fortify in a tug of war, someone preparing a system, undermining or gathering / delivering for expansions. None of those are innocent 'not me guv' roles. They all are there to push your powers agenda and are legitimate targets.

A pledge is you saying your power is better than the rest, and working to that end; you can't be innocent at the same time- someone should be trying to stop you. NPCs are woefully rubbish at this, with only players being able to be co-ordinated resistance. Cut that out, and Powerplay is limited to time * capacity and how deep your pockets are.

PP was sold as consensual PVP,

Sandro retconned that into the proposal, that was never mentioned at all in 1.3.

 

[Vetinari]

But NPC combat is not specific to PP, its a separate bigger issue. Trying to merge the 2 into 1 rant confuses the issue.

Make NPCs harder in general - no problem with that
Make higher rank NPCs much harder with better AI - no problem with that
Make specific PP NPC that are harder on average than equivalent 'PVE' NPC - no problem with that
Make PP NPCs interdict haulers - no problem with that, players sign up and do it knowing it is part of it
Make PP Open only and force haulers to be targets for OP Combat ships - quite a few problems with that not least most people just wont do it or do it and hate it and the point is to try and get more people doing it long term isnt it, not just have wave after wave of noob pilots to shoot at for 4 weeks at a time?

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

Unless we get crossplay consoles are not really affected by open favouring changes, we need crossplay, especially with all modes availlble

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

Make NPCs harder in general - no problem with that

Neither for me it's a problem, but look for forum reactions about any increase of difficulty level that is currently very low past engineering, if you mean npc's like spec opps, i say they are joke, we need npc's using lethal engineered weapons, FC rails, dispersal munitions and most importantly max engineered drives, else it's cannon fodder with diffrent TTK. sry 2 posts.

 

[Rubbernuke]

But NPC combat is not specific to PP, its a separate bigger issue. Trying to merge the 2 into 1 rant confuses the issue.

Make NPCs harder in general - no problem with that
Make higher rank NPCs much harder with better AI - no problem with that
Make specific PP NPC that are harder on average than equivalent 'PVE' NPC - no problem with that
Make PP NPCs interdict haulers - no problem with that, players sign up and do it knowing it is part of it
Make PP Open only and force haulers to be targets for OP Combat ships - quite a few problems with that not least most people just wont do it or do it and hate it and the point is to try and get more people doing it long term isnt it, not just have wave after wave of noob pilots to shoot at for 4 weeks at a time?

All the time I'm talking about NPCs I'm talking about PP NPCs, why else would I talk about the rest of the game?

The point is, NPCs in general are scaled to mission levels but not Powerplay levels- that is, hunt, cluster in expansions / capitals etc intelligently. They are hamstrung by not having areas to attack- example: around stations. The drop zones are too small, meaning NPCs (and PP NPCs) don't get room to attack. The only place left is SC.

Unless you make PP NPCs much harder you will never get that 100% efficiency down- why is this important? Its important because 100% efficiency allows large empires that cannot be attacked conventionally- if only 50% of fortification gets through, a large territory is in trouble unless it defends its haulers.

Make PP Open only and force haulers to be targets for OP Combat ships

This is a false assumption, since it comes from a min/ max perspective based on 100% efficiency. There is nothing to stop a hauler making a faster, smaller ship that hauls less and is better at escaping, teaming up- this is ideal, because then you break hauling meta, make evasion actually count for something, have unpredictable opponents and bring down hauling efficiency %.

Make PP Open only and force haulers to be targets for OP Combat ships - quite a few problems with that not least most people just wont do it or do it and hate it and the point is to try and get more people doing it long term isnt it, not just have wave after wave of noob pilots to shoot at for 4 weeks at a time?

You don't know this though. PP has entered heat death with massive consolidation giving way to underhanded 5C exploitation- it needs a reason to exist and people to be attracted to it. It needs to be unstable and combat heavy to keep it dynamic, all the while reducing mechanics that enhance stability. In short it should be easier to attack and hard to hold onto gains, otherwise you have a galaxy like now thats full with no 'good' moves left. Unless FD tear it down and start from scratch Open in the only realistic option left.