Powerplay Faction: Aisling Duval Cycle 270 - The "Woooo!" Edition

[Vetinari]

Get rid of the player ships maybe then?

If youre hauling for PP you get given a ship to use for that one delivery job only. Fitted with that PP module/weapon fwiw. If you blow up, dock at any other station or run out of fuel (no scoop but enough fuel for the journey) you die and end up back at the starting station. No loss to player except the time, rebuy incurred by Power not player....may encourage more into Open.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Get rid of the player ships maybe then?

If youre hauling for PP you get given a ship to use for that one delivery job only. Fitted with that PP module/weapon fwiw. If you blow up, dock at any other station or run out of fuel (no scoop but enough fuel for the journey) you die and end up back at the starting station. No loss to player except the time, rebuy incurred by Power not player....may encourage more into Open.

I had thought of something similar, and part of me likes the idea because it makes things balanced- problem is you have to take into account PP modules which are radically different with some being...not so good.

The way I approached it was to firstly decouple merit earnings from credits (i.e. you can't buy cargo) and then have a multiplier for credit earnings based on certain factors, that way a successful run is enough to pay for a rebuy if its going to the right place. That way you can use your own ships, but have the carrot of better earnings if you deliver. This multiplication can then make hauling profitable, and balance it from pure UM roles.

 

[Vetinari]

I had thought of something similar, and part of me likes the idea because it makes things balanced- problem is you have to take into account PP modules which are radically different with some being...not so good.

I know, I was laughing to myself at the Power that gives you a ship with Mining Lances and says 'Off you go now, good luck, youll be the first to arrive safely this week if you make it'

That buying the cargo bit does my head in, I see why its there but it just kills it, it removes any need to participate which always needs to be there for the player who doesnt want to interact, but still.

But yeah, 3 ships maybe, 1 small and fast with little cargo (maybe 3 trips needed), 1 medium with hull and cargo balance (safer but maybe 2 trips needed), 1 large with say 500T Cargo but a slow tank (ideally 1 delivery needed but takes a lot longer with more 'being in danger' during the journey) - ideally players will offer to support in their own combat ships so the player hauler can choose how to do the delivery.

Could change the mission to 1 item needing taking to 1 system, 3 times, 3 different systems or whatever. Same number of journeys for the normal player who just buys the darn things but different gameplay to match...or maybe not if they just do it in 1 go now in a T9....More thought needed.

Combat Merits - needs balancing, completely rebalancing. 30 Ships in the right circumstances is approx 2hrs, but getting the right circumstances means resetting the instance over and over and over to get the right targets to appear. Not enough PP CZs and pay is bad, I got 10 merits for killing a ship in one after waiting 6 months to find one, went back to Nav Beacon for 25 merits per ship.

The 'profit' in credits I think is supposed to come from the weekly wage, not the daily activity. I never lost more than 5m in damage or repairs in any one week so I was always in profit. Obviously if you buy you are 2.5m per week down but whats that these days? 30s of firing a mining laser?

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

PP conflict zones is actully main reason why PP should be open only than with just merit bonuses to open, TBH i dont belive OO is viable alternative now or would be good for game in current state, i rather think about it as some ideal, FD should try to reach, and getting better in the process, so thats why i'm asking for bonuses. Problem is that if 1 power can turret boat with absolutely 0 denger and without showing progress to enemy, its already enaugh for OOPP without considering anything else, as like i said it's PvP element of game, and fairness of fight is critical, if we dont care about PP CZ's why we should care about cheats, it's basically same.

 

[Vetinari]

The bonus to Open is the chance for more interactive gameplay with other people if thats what you want, thats how it is and probably wont change. That is opt-in or opt-out.

So how can that bonus be applied to PP to make it more 'fun' so more people want to do PP in Open? It cant just be a monetary, credit or merit bonus or punishment, it has to be better than PG or Solo.

Edit: We need more views off people who have done PP in Solo/PG and see if theres anything that would draw them out, otherwise we are just in an echo chamber.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I know, I was laughing to myself at the Power that gives you a ship with Mining Lances and says 'Off you go now, good luck, youll be the first to arrive safely this week if you make it'

That buying the cargo bit does my head in, I see why its there but it just kills it, it removes any need to participate which always needs to be there for the player who doesnt want to interact, but still.

But yeah, 3 ships maybe, 1 small and fast with little cargo (maybe 3 trips needed), 1 medium with hull and cargo balance (safer but maybe 2 trips needed), 1 large with say 500T Cargo but a slow tank (ideally 1 delivery needed but takes a lot longer with more 'being in danger' during the journey) - ideally players will offer to support in their own combat ships so the player hauler can choose how to do the delivery.

Could change the mission to 1 item needing taking to 1 system, 3 times, 3 different systems or whatever. Same number of journeys for the normal player who just buys the darn things but different gameplay to match...or maybe not if they just do it in 1 go now in a T9....More thought needed.

Combat Merits - needs balancing, completely rebalancing. 30 Ships in the right circumstances is approx 2hrs, but getting the right circumstances means resetting the instance over and over and over to get the right targets to appear. Not enough PP CZs and pay is bad, I got 10 merits for killing a ship in one after waiting 6 months to find one, went back to Nav Beacon for 25 merits per ship.

The 'profit' in credits I think is supposed to come from the weekly wage, not the daily activity. I never lost more than 5m in damage or repairs in any one week so I was always in profit. Obviously if you buy you are 2.5m per week down but whats that these days? 30s of firing a mining laser?

An open only situation would lead to more disposable ships anyway, smaller, faster etc if losses are high, and that large vessels would be very vulnerable to reverb muntions, Grom bombs and other nasty effects. It would be a balancing act, and one that would be interesting since every power knows how the others behave.

 

[Rubbernuke]

PP conflict zones is actully main reason why PP should be open only than with just merit bonuses to open, TBH i dont belive OO is viable alternative now or would be good for game in current state, i rather think about it as some ideal, FD should try to reach, and getting better in the process, so thats why i'm asking for bonuses. Problem is that if 1 power can turret boat with absolutely 0 denger and without showing progress to enemy, its already enaugh for OOPP without considering anything else, as like i said it's PvP element of game, and fairness of fight is critical, if we dont care about PP CZ's why we should care about cheats, it's basically same.

The problem with an Open only bonus is that Solo PG merits would have to be about 95% less in value to an Open merit to counter AFK boats.

One possible change would be to use new CZ mechanics, so that although annoying, each battle ends and you must dip in again. It would also mean though that you could set higher merit rewards for more dangerous PP foes like Spec Ops, captains etc.

 

[Oraki]

I find it hilarious how to this day people just think open only PP will be the cure, when we have Iglooing of Nav Beacons, Pad Blocking and other that abuses the instance systems. Not to talk about portblocking because ED is a P2P game and you can simply remove people from your instance by changing your firewall settings.

Open Only won't solve the 5C issues.
Open Only will create more problems than it solves IF you don't fix already existing problems.

There are more issues against OOPP and I frankly do not care about this enough to list them all. Frankly speaking, OOPP is one of the most uneducated opinions in all of ED and is among the reasons, why the devs stopped listening to the PP community. Everytime someone brings up valid criticism about and suggestions for PP on the forums, some idiots start trolling the comments and scream about OOPP until the thread is no longer useable for anything else. I (like Mo Mo) am part of AWC who does their PP in open exclusively (same as the OP of this thread, they are from Aisling Angels who have a strict policy as well) and I get you.

But please, let this issue rest. You are beating a dead horse. Adding OOPP would require a rework of the netcode and this won't happen in ED. Maybe in the far future, when ED2 is released (lol), we will have something resembling PP with more depth and all, but currently we don't.

 

[Rubbernuke]

I find it hilarious how to this day people just think open only PP will be the cure, when we have Iglooing of Nav Beacons, Pad Blocking and other poopoo that abuses the instance systems. Not to talk about portblocking because ED is a P2P game and you can simply remove people from your instance by changing your firewall settings.

Because no-one is. Open only is only a mild 5C counter at best, what it does do is make opportunistic encounters much more chaotic, especially since a lot of FD mooted changes funnel everyone into the same areas.

Open Only won't solve the 5C issues.

Weighting and voting are the main changes to fight that, plus other changes that force players to keep making trustworthy moves.

Open Only will create more problems than it solves IF you don't fix already existing problems.

Will it? Right now Powerplays 'gameplay' is grind racing- essentially its an open ended massacre mission and an open ended cargo run, both against ineffectual NPCs. This is bracketed against measures like consolidation that powers can hide behind making attack even harder, leading to the stagnation we see today.

There are more issues against OOPP and I frankly do not care about this poopoo enough to list them all.

Please do, and I'll argue them all.

Frankly speaking, OOPP is one of the most uneducated opinions in all of ED and is among the reasons, why the devs stopped listening to the PP community.

Really? FD stopped listening to PP leaders a long time before. PP had a leaders discord that for a while was a way for FD to ask questions and float ideas. When the debacle that was Beyond kicked off FD forgot about it. If you look at these forums you'll find the progressive voices wanting Open or part Open are the ones with ideas, with the Luddites smacking foreheads on tables to drown out conversation. For proof have a read of the Flash topics.

Everytime someone brings up valid criticism about and suggestions for PP on the forums, some idiots start trolling the comments and scream about OOPP until the thread is no longer useable for anything else. I (like Mo Mo) am part of AWC who does their PP in open exclusively (same as the OP of this thread, they are from Aisling Angels who have a strict policy as well) and I get you.

Are you saying FD can't filter out non-useful posts?

But please, let this issue rest. You are beating a dead horse. Adding OOPP would require a rework of the netcode and this won't happen in ED. Maybe in the far future, when ED2 is released (lol), we will have something resembling PP with more depth and all, but currently we don't.

FD could pull the switch tomorrow, what needs to be accepted is that it won't be perfect. What it will do is force a change in strategy away from defence and into attack, as it should have been to begin with.