Cycle 340 - Hudson Strikes Back

[Mo Mo]

Congratulations to Hudson for taking Polecteri with a late merit drop of around 248k, this, in addition to the 376k merits put into the other expansions, means a total of 624,000 combat merits, earned at a rate of 10 per kill, have been handed in for the cycle.

That's over 62,000 kills in 168 hours - over 6 kills per minute in CZ style engagements...wow!

Such commitment, one might say, almost robotic dedication to win...

Unbelievible.

 

[Rubbernuke]

almost robotic dedication to win...

 

[dciskey]

Please, for your own sake, drink some water.

 

[CMDR Sunshine]

Bring back Mo Mo

 

[Danieros]

It's really impressive - doubling combat expansion capacity with the commitment to push around 2:1 triggers at 10 merits per kill while simultaneously having preparation races with multiple powers. Some would say this barely leaves room for any sleep at all. Congratulations.

 

[tiddymun]

The OP seems to assume Hudson had one commander installed at a Military strike. How peculair. 30 merits / kill everywhere else in system... and perhaps several more commanders which are disciplined enough to hold merits most of the cycle (and skilled enough to not get killed while holding them.... sry 'bout that LLV CMDR I cant name )... anyway.... gg in outprepping BD+03 - and look forward to some more exciting cycles ahead.

 

[tiddymun]

TBF.... I've lost many merits over the years by not being particularly skilled at hitting the fsd button at the right time.... but that's what Open PP is all about

 

[Mo Mo]

If only FDev would analyse the data from all the players who handed in merits for each cycle, or at least those who handed in large amount of merits, to see if there is anything unusual or improbable; maybe someone's been playing the game non-stop for many hours without food or sleep - should really get some sort of notification, for his/her health benefit if nothing else...and it would settle this entire argument once and for all.

But I suppose that's just wishful thinking.

 

[dciskey]

Hypernatremia - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Intersection]

What the poor, sleepless Hudson bogeyman didn't know was that more than one commander is in fact pledged to Hudson... He was so relieved when we told him - he didn't have to do all these merits alone!

And I will readily admit: we lost our prep race in BD+03, fair and square. In fact, we're such good sports about it that we're wholeheartedly rooting for Aisling to take it.

Love you too!

 

[Mo Mo]

Ok, enough word games.

Here is a screenshot of a conversation one of our players had with a high level Hudson player regarding the seemingly impossible amount of merit drop Hudson was able to do week after week.

Basically, it shows:

1. Automated turret-boats were used to help Hudson with his expansions.
2. Hudson leadership denies direct control or responsibility for the t-boats - may or may not be true.
3. Hudson has most definitely benefited from these t-boats, whether he controls them or not.
4. Hudson is able to go for highly challenging targets, those with triggers that are seriously against him, with high chance of winning, as he can rely on his mystery benefactor(s) to dump hundreds of thousands of merits for him towards the end of the cycle.

The use of afk t-boats seemed to have stopped for a few months for whatever reasons, but cycle 340 shows that they are back in use.

So in summary, there is absolutely no doubt that Hudson is colluding with botters in order to win.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Ok, enough word games.

Here is a screenshot of a conversation one of our players had with a high level Hudson player regarding the seemingly impossible amount of merit drop Hudson was able to do week after week.

Basically, it shows:

1. Automated turret-boats were used to help Hudson with his expansions.
2. Hudson leadership denies direct control or responsibility for the t-boats - may or may not be true.
3. Hudson has most definitely benefited from these t-boats, whether he controls them or not.
4. Hudson is able to go for highly challenging targets, those with triggers that are seriously against him, with high chance of winning, as he can rely on his mystery benefactor(s) to dump hundreds of thousands of merits for him towards the end of the cycle.

The use of afk t-boats seemed to have stopped for a few months for whatever reasons, but cycle 340 shows that they are back in use.

So in summary, there is absolutely no doubt that Hudson is colluding with botters in order to win.

A thought experiment:

AFK turetboats in Open should not be an issue since, well, can't you blow them up and they won't fight back? They are essentially sat there for x time and against a rival player easy prey.

AFK boats in solo or PG would certainly be unfair.

Its also a bit of a stretch to first say 'may or may not be true' and then suddenly conclude with 'no doubt collusion' when the 'proof' refutes any such link.

 

[Mo Mo]

A thought experiment:

AFK turetboats in Open should not be an issue since, well, can't you blow them up and they won't fight back? They are essentially sat there for x time and against a rival player easy prey.

AFK boats in solo or PG would certainly be unfair.

Its also a bit of a stretch to first say 'may or may not be true' and then suddenly conclude with 'no doubt collusion' when the 'proof' refutes any such link.

Apart from a handful of the usual PvP players (always the same ones), Feds are not often seen in Open, quite frankly, "we play in Open only" is just another Fed propaganda.

But let's not side tracked onto another OOPP debate. This is about botting, clearly a breach of FDev ToS, but nothing seems to be done about it.

 

[Mo Mo]

A thought experiment:

AFK turetboats in Open should not be an issue since, well, can't you blow them up and they won't fight back? They are essentially sat there for x time and against a rival player easy prey.

AFK boats in solo or PG would certainly be unfair.

Its also a bit of a stretch to first say 'may or may not be true' and then suddenly conclude with 'no doubt collusion' when the 'proof' refutes any such link.

Its also a bit of a stretch to first say 'may or may not be true' and then suddenly conclude with 'no doubt collusion' when the 'proof' refutes any such link

Hudson has benefited, and looks like continuing to benefit from, the mystery Santa Claus...in fact, looking at his strategy, it would seem that Hudson depends on it. So yes, colluding is correct.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Apart from a handful of the usual PvP players (always the same ones), Feds are not often seen in Open, quite frankly, "we play in Open only" is just another Fed propaganda.

But let's not side tracked onto another OOPP debate. This is about botting, clearly a breach of FDev ToS, but nothing seems to be done about it.

The issue is, its not botting in the traditional sense- its exploiting several low level issues that overlap.

1: heal beams
2: engineered shields
3: old style CZ mechanics
4: wings (to a lesser extent).

Incidentally if FD use new style CZ mechanics with old style ships the problem would stop.I know in all of my proposed PP changes I suggest just this.

Hudson has benefited, and looks like continuing to benefit from, the mystery Santa Claus...in fact, looking at his strategy, it would seem that Hudson depends on it. So yes, colluding is correct.

The problem is that I know from when I used to play more powers like Grom would drop insane merits this way from PG.

 

[Mo Mo]

FDev should just remove these special CZs completely, and let the expanding Power fight near the beacon like the underminers. It would solve this problem.

 

[LDFR_Prozer]

FDev should just remove these special CZs completely, and let the expanding Power fight near the beacon like the underminers. It would solve this problem.

You say this as a hauling power, have you EVER tried to expand using the nav beacon method ? 1 dude alone does 1.5-2k merits an hour average, in a wing of 4 you can go up to 2.5-3k an hour per cmdr. Which is ok rate at the beacon but defenetly not the 794t / per trip a hauling power can do. Specially if it's 1 jump to load and 1 jump to drop ..... You can do 6-7 trips in 1 hour VERY easily. That's like 5k an hour FOR 1 solo cmdr.

Removing those CZ is maybe not the solution. Modifing them yes, like BGS CZ. We still have lots of fun doing those, but you need a full wing, of efficient ship build optimized for those kind of CZ (endless). I think giving a buff to the merits won in those CZ but making them like bgs CZ would help the "afk" issue.

If you really want to remove those CZ then sure, but UMers only gain 10 merits at the time (if not less).
Otherwise it's totally impossible...

Also please teach your PvPers that shooting npcs in Hudson expansion doesn't always means undermining it also means expanding ..... but well, enough advice .... I'm not here to teach you powerplay.

 

[tiddymun]

OP... I agree Hudson in-game has in the past (2019 mostly) had activity that appeared to be from afk t-boats. FUC have over the years identified, kicked and reported two CMDRs for such activity - neither now play the game (I presume they were banned). We have not seen this problem for a long while now. Recent cycles have seen activity unaccounted for by FUC members to the tune of 150-250k, which is not unusual for Hudson - not everyone who is a Hudson pledge in game is on the FUC discord, and I'd suggest the OP's power also likely see's such activity unaccounted for by their discord/slack's members. Those on the FUC discord play open for all PP and BGS activity (it is one of our rules, and yes, we check!). As do those on the OP's discord (or at least the AWC squadron) - but he must also acknowledge there are many pledged to his power that don't play open. Nothing either of us can do about that! I acknowledge the OP's worry that "Santa Claus" is back in town. Hudson has had several expansions thrown as distractions/weapons (that were not wanted) turn to control systems due to activity from such activity - e.g. Ptah - where we clearly flagged on Reddit and everywhere we could we didn't want it, it was just to block a weapon vs Hudson... FUC I can assure the OP, will kick and report anyone we find doing such activity.

What I find annoying is that whenever our opposition messes up tactically, they point fingers. And also, just because all open-playing imps have chosen Odyssey, they claim Feds are in solo - when many are in open in Horizons rather than Odyssey, if they just switch and go and look. Hopefully the galaxies will be re-joined soon, and that issue will disappear!

Personally, I would very much favour all powers to expand by hauling (although that is also open to bots and abuse) - expanding by combat at a maximum of 1500 merits/hr (even for the most skilled pilot) is very unfair for combat powers (and spawns vary ALOT!, sometimes less than 1k/hr is possible) vs the 3000 + /hour achievable by hauling powers (less skill to haul in a 4k shielded cutter vs expanding by combat!) and 3k/hr is also similar to the opposition a skilled pilot can achieve in opposing, so this seems better balanced IMO. Everyone who engages with PowerPlay hopes that one day FDEV will overhaul it - 6 years and waiting!

 

[dciskey]

Ok, enough word games.

Here is a screenshot of a conversation one of our players had with a high level Hudson player regarding the seemingly impossible amount of merit drop Hudson was able to do week after week.

Basically, it shows:

1. Automated turret-boats were used to help Hudson with his expansions.
2. Hudson leadership denies direct control or responsibility for the t-boats - may or may not be true.
3. Hudson has most definitely benefited from these t-boats, whether he controls them or not.
4. Hudson is able to go for highly challenging targets, those with triggers that are seriously against him, with high chance of winning, as he can rely on his mystery benefactor(s) to dump hundreds of thousands of merits for him towards the end of the cycle.

The use of afk t-boats seemed to have stopped for a few months for whatever reasons, but cycle 340 shows that they are back in use.

So in summary, there is absolutely no doubt that Hudson is colluding with botters in order to win.

You must’ve gone deep into the archives for this screenshot; the merits bombs against ALD haven’t been seen for at least half a year, probably more.

 

[Tarkus Venius]

You say this as a hauling power, have you EVER tried to expand using the nav beacon method ? 1 dude alone does 1.5-2k merits an hour average, in a wing of 4 you can go up to 2.5-3k an hour per cmdr. Which is ok rate at the beacon but defenetly not the 794t / per trip a hauling power can do. Specially if it's 1 jump to load and 1 jump to drop ..... You can do 6-7 trips in 1 hour VERY easily. That's like 5k an hour FOR 1 solo cmdr.

Removing those CZ is maybe not the solution. Modifing them yes, like BGS CZ. We still have lots of fun doing those, but you need a full wing, of efficient ship build optimized for those kind of CZ (endless). I think giving a buff to the merits won in those CZ but making them like bgs CZ would help the "afk" issue.

If you really want to remove those CZ then sure, but UMers only gain 10 merits at the time (if not less).
Otherwise it's totally impossible...

Also please teach your PvPers that shooting npcs in Hudson expansion doesn't always means undermining it also means expanding ..... but well, enough advice .... I'm not here to teach you powerplay.

Yes I do know how much it sucks to be a combat power? You need a lot of dedicated people to build up merits, many more than the enemy. We don’t get that anymore in this dying, broken game.

I don’t get what you’re saying here though, we should leave a massive exploit in the game because it’s hard to be a combat power?

Aisling is complaining that every week your preps are like the Home Shopping Network. Say what you want, Santa Claus delivers, then you can cry on the forums that you have no idea who the cheater is. They aren’t entirely wrong mate, it kind of sounds like: “Please don’t cheat and take these systems for us next!”

If FDEV cared enough, they would end the CZ after 10 kills like a low CZ, and increase the merits earned to 30 at least, 50 ideally. A wing of four engineered players should be able to make 1200 merits in a couple of minutes with focus fire.