Ship Builds & Load Outs CZ Gunship loadout?

DidierDrbois · Jan 11, 2017

After years of deLacy fanboyism, I feel like toying about. Also, while excellent at everything else, my Condie just doesn't feel fluid enough in a conflict zone.

I'm eyeing the Gunship for some conflict zone carnage and I do prefer one with a fighter bay. Any suggestions for loadout pretty please?

Ceekay · Jan 11, 2017

TBH it's not the ship I'd take to a CZ (big target and with it's lack of speed difficult to disengage), something fast like an engineered FDL or a Viper 3 (small and disposable

) would be my choice but here's what I'm using currently.

Weapons; L5 rapid fire mods on the MC's are seriously powerful! shields are decent, speed average but use the fighter for chasing targets or distraction (16 rebuilds) or even park the mothership outside the CZ and take the fighter in alone.

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fed...2b2b242h.Iw18RQ==.IwBj4yvUg===.&bn=Gunship MC

Turnspit · Jan 13, 2017

I love my FG, even in CZ. Just make sure to stay out of the center, so that you aren't suddenly chased by 5 ships at once.

This is the build I'm currently using:

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fed...q0q04040404B1fm2d2b2b2bm3m3.Iw18RQ==.Aw18RQ==.

Burlsol · Jan 13, 2017

Ceekay said:
something fast like a Viper 3 (small and disposable ) would be my choice but here's what I'm using currently.

Fast and cheap is what I settled on myself. But preferred going with a courier for higher shield and jump range. Although, it feels like my build needs some tweaking due to more recent game changes.
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp...12o002f.Iw18UA==.Aw18UA==.&bn=Fighter Courier

Larger combat ships just didn't feel like they had a good enough shields to deal with continual fire until you get into the cutter/corvette range. Vulture is a decent alternative, but needs quite a good deal of engineering to solve for power requirements while also ending up about twice as much of a rebuy cost.

The rebuy costs are the main problem with a CZ ship in my opinion. Bringing in an expensive ship means you are taking your chances in regards to having enough killing power to make up for the higher chance of things targeting you and the higher costs if you suddenly get swarmed. Maybe if you're actively using a fighter or working in a wing with another player to team up and spread damage, but otherwise it just ends up feeling like a liability.

goemon · Jan 13, 2017

here is my carrier gunship, which my crew is flying while i pilot the fighter: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fed...m7m72b2o01.Iw18RQ==.IwBj4yvZiA==.&bn=oos Nest

let's put it like that - if you switch back as soon as your crew has only one ring of shields left, you will survive.

DidierDrbois · Jan 16, 2017

goemon said:
here is my carrier gunship, which my crew is flying while i pilot the fighter: https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fed...m7m72b2o01.Iw18RQ==.IwBj4yvZiA==.&bn=oos Nest

let's put it like that - if you switch back as soon as your crew has only one ring of shields left, you will survive.

Ooh, I like the railgun twist, like it a lot!

Mystweaver · Jan 25, 2017

I've been using a FGS for a very long time (pre-horizons). It has come a long way.

With the recent military slots and changes to weapons, I have the following:

1x Large Gimballed Beam - Efficient 5 Thermal Shock,
2x Medium Gimballed Beam - Efficient 5 Thermal Shock,
2x Medium Gimballed Beam - Efficient 5 Thermal Vent
1x Small Gimballed Multicannon - Rapid fire 5, Corrosive
1x Small Turretted Cannon - High Cap mag 2, Dispersal Field.
Military Composite, Heavy Duty 5,
Power Plant Armoured 4
Dirty Drive Thrusters 5
FSD Range 5
Power Distributor Weapons 3
6C Bi-Weave - Reinforced 5
2x Shield Booster A - Heavy Duty 5, 1 A Resistance 5, 1 E Resistance 5
1x 5D Hull Reinforcement, Heavy Duty 5
2x 4D Hull Reinforcement *unmodified* - Will be Heavy Duty 5
2x 2D Hull Reinforcement, Heavy Duty 5
1x 4D Module Protection
6D Fighter Hangar - 2 Plasma Imp Fighters (GU-97 Rogue F)

Top Speed 210m/s
Boost Speed 347m/s
Jump 15.38 (will reduce)
Shield Health 662
Shield Resistance Ki/Th/Ex 64.7%/28.2%/70.1%
Armour Health 3,458 (will increase ~4,000!!)
Armour Rating 60
Armour Ki/Th/Ex 31.1%/35.9%/18.4%

Planned Changes:
all HRP's to Heavy duty 5
Small Cannon to high cap mag 5
Multicannon to high cap mag 5
1 Long Range 5 Large Beam w/ Regen
2 Long Range 5 Medium Beam w/ Thermal Shock
2 Focused 5 Medicum Beam w/ Thermal Vent

FYI, turretted small cannon provides chaff on target, multicannon used only to apply corrosive effect (and sometimes for added DPS on small ships that get close).

I swap out the 5A HRP for 5A fuel scoop when travelling large distances and then use module transfer it to my location (usually less than 30 mins or so).

My Pilot is currently Dangerous and I send him regularly to his death in the SLF; he's awesome.

I have been using this with great success in CZ and PvP (though I don't PvP that much tbh but one FDL had reverb torps to take out my shields... just silent ran on and off and with the cannon chaffing had him running with myself at 85% hull).

Burlsol · Jan 31, 2017

Been revisiting the idea, and still having trouble justifying the benefits of a gunship for CZ compared to some of the alternatives.

The Gunship build I'm considering for Dangerous and higher tier CZ action.
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fed...6jZ2vUZ4czx7/AHm6gDXmIBAAA=&bn=Combat Gunship

Compared to a FDL:
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/fer...pgxU09Aln9MVTPRP5AZi8M/ZdAgAA&bn=Battle Lance

Or just a courier similar to what I already have (and which is closer to a multi-role mission runner).
https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/imp...uJ5g5ECpcaEh9eKhKuVQEAAA==&bn=Fighter Courier

Quick comparison of similar engineering grades on other ships.

Ship	Build	ARMOUR	SHIELDS	SPEED THRUSTERS	SPEED BOOST	COST	DPS TOTAL	DPS EXPLOSIVE	DPS KINETIC	DPS THERMAL	EPS	HPS	AGILITY PITCH	AGILITY ROLL	AGILITY YAW
Diamondback Explorer	DBX Fighter	651 [size=-2][/size]	214 [size=-2]MJ[/size]	320 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	419 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	13,462,054 [size=-2]CR[/size]	42.24 [size=-2][/size]	0 [size=-2][/size]	22.35 [size=-2][/size]	19.88 [size=-2][/size]	4.41 [size=-2][/size]	4.39 [size=-2][/size]	43.1 [size=-2][/size]	110.9 [size=-2][/size]	16.0 [size=-2][/size]
Federal Gunship	Combat Gunship	1,596 [size=-2][/size]	310 [size=-2]MJ[/size]	231 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	380 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	91,425,141 [size=-2]CR[/size]	75.75 [size=-2][/size]	0 [size=-2][/size]	53.11 [size=-2][/size]	22.64 [size=-2][/size]	8.54 [size=-2][/size]	11.72 [size=-2][/size]	34.0 [size=-2][/size]	108.7 [size=-2][/size]	24.5 [size=-2][/size]
Fer-de-Lance	Battle Lance	661 [size=-2][/size]	1,197 [size=-2]MJ[/size]	369 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	497 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	93,683,468 [size=-2]CR[/size]	85.26 [size=-2][/size]	0 [size=-2][/size]	26.23 [size=-2][/size]	59.03 [size=-2][/size]	15.79 [size=-2][/size]	18.12 [size=-2][/size]	54.0 [size=-2][/size]	127.9 [size=-2][/size]	17.1 [size=-2][/size]
Imperial Clipper	Regen Clipper	1,376 [size=-2][/size]	392 [size=-2]MJ[/size]	430 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	544 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	87,702,162 [size=-2]CR[/size]	71.08 [size=-2][/size]	0 [size=-2][/size]	28.9 [size=-2][/size]	42.18 [size=-2][/size]	10.65 [size=-2][/size]	11.39 [size=-2][/size]	57.3 [size=-2][/size]	114.6 [size=-2][/size]	25.8 [size=-2][/size]
Imperial Courier	Fighter Courier	268 [size=-2][/size]	476 [size=-2]MJ[/size]	356 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	483 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	11,064,131 [size=-2]CR[/size]	34.43 [size=-2][/size]	0 [size=-2][/size]	14.55 [size=-2][/size]	19.88 [size=-2][/size]	7.45 [size=-2][/size]	8.22 [size=-2][/size]	48.3 [size=-2][/size]	114.5 [size=-2][/size]	20.4 [size=-2][/size]
Vulture	Vulture	682 [size=-2][/size]	437 [size=-2]MJ[/size]	278 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	450 [size=-2]m/s[/size]	22,908,014 [size=-2]CR[/size]	43.44 [size=-2][/size]	0 [size=-2][/size]	22.35 [size=-2][/size]	21.09 [size=-2][/size]	5.8 [size=-2][/size]	6.61 [size=-2][/size]	55.5 [size=-2][/size]	145.5 [size=-2][/size]	22.5 [size=-2][/size]
[size=-3] Interactive Comparison at Coriolis.io

[/size]

The gunship still just feels lacking in most places other than raw attack power. In the same price range, the FDL outruns and out-turns it while having the shield capacity to remain close. Clipper built along similar conceptual lines feels like a bigger threat with the higher boost and still reasonably high damage. Courier, DBX, Vulture all feel like more bang for your buck given how quickly a CZ can turn against you.

About the only real benefit I see would be if I swapped in a fighter bay (more damage and distraction), but have also heard that using a fighter is usually a bad idea in a CZ due to the pilot of it dying quickly. So what am I missing?

goemon · Jan 31, 2017

Burlsol said:
About the only real benefit I see would be if I swapped in a fighter bay (more damage and distraction), but have also heard that using a fighter is usually a bad idea in a CZ due to the pilot of it dying quickly. So what am I missing?

fun.

i like piloting the fighter, and having my crew backing me up - gunship is great for that. especially at haz res/comp nav beacons, where a keelback is a bit weak.

some people do it the other way round - anyway, if you want to play with npc crew and fighters, the gunship shines

beside that, the gunship has a special atmosphere and flightmodel.

if you don't want npc crew/fighters, you'll always be better off with a FDL .... but this can more or less be said about any combat scenario/ship.

Burlsol · Jan 31, 2017

goemon said:
fun.

i like piloting the fighter, and having my crew backing me up - gunship is great for that. especially at haz res/comp nav beacons, where a keelback is a bit weak.

some people do it the other way round - anyway, if you want to play with npc crew and fighters, the gunship shines

Maybe I just need to experiment with fighter mechanics some. If pilot in fighter gets shot down, they're dead for good. If ship takes too much damage when I'm in the fighter, I'm gone for good. If I die in the fighter, I don't know what but still feels bad. All cases feel like a risky endeavor in a combat zone.

Maybe someday once I cross the billion credits mark and no longer care about rebuy...

goemon · Jan 31, 2017

Burlsol said:
Maybe I just need to experiment with fighter mechanics some. If pilot in fighter gets shot down, they're dead for good. If ship takes too much damage when I'm in the fighter, I'm gone for good. If I die in the fighter, I don't know what but still feels bad. All cases feel like a risky endeavor in a combat zone.

Maybe someday once I cross the billion credits mark and no longer care about rebuy...

nothing happens if a fighter gets destroyed.

i can really recommend starting at comp nav beacons, where you can control what to engage, and orientation is easy. proceed with haz res. CZ aren't for me, too - piloting the fighter there is great and challenging, but the constant checking on your motherships well-being isn't for me personally.

Burlsol · Jan 31, 2017

goemon said:
CZ aren't for me, too -

The thing is that as I'm entering into higher combat rank I'm entering a situation where I need a dedicated heavy combat ship for CG grinding. The courier still cuts it, but just barely and still means that I need to occasionally jump out when I have more than 1 thing attacking me and no allies around. In HRCZ all I encounter are wings of 2-3 ships of expert to elite rank which tend to drop my shields before I even manage to kill 1, so not really an option. Knowing that it only gets worse from here discourages me from doing any real earning from combat until I have something that can actually survive it. I've stopped even killing pirates that interdict me just to limit my combat ranking to only those activities that earn me a significant chunk of money. As a corvette is still a long way away, I'll need to have something between that can still contend against a fully kitted anaconda (plus fighter and the 2 wingmen the game decides to add for sake of 'fun').

goemon · Jan 31, 2017

Burlsol said:
The thing is that as I'm entering into higher combat rank I'm entering a situation where I need a dedicated heavy combat ship for CG grinding. The courier still cuts it, but just barely and still means that I need to occasionally jump out when I have more than 1 thing attacking me and no allies around. In HRCZ all I encounter are wings of 2-3 ships of expert to elite rank which tend to drop my shields before I even manage to kill 1, so not really an option. Knowing that it only gets worse from here discourages me from doing any real earning from combat until I have something that can actually survive it. I've stopped even killing pirates that interdict me just to limit my combat ranking to only those activities that earn me a significant chunk of money. As a corvette is still a long way away, I'll need to have something between that can still contend against a fully kitted anaconda (plus fighter and the 2 wingmen the game decides to add for sake of 'fun').

- HiCZ don't need a corvette, they need tactical flying and situational awareness. i do them in a DBS or lately cobra, or, if there is a BGS reason to win a war fast, in a FDL - everything i learned i learned from this old thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...e-to-Surviving-a-Combat-Zone-in-a-Starfighter

- as for ranking ... i did my elite combat rank last week mainly at compromised nav beacons. they spawn elite ranked pirates in eagles and sideys, without the armour of CZ ships .... for that, a gunship was brilliant. flying the fighter, because it isn't a lot of fun bullying eagles and sidey in a FDL - and if things go south, ask your npc crew for back up ... and if there is a deadly clipper, attack together.

Turnspit · Mar 2, 2017

Mystweaver said:
FYI, turretted small cannon provides chaff on target, multicannon used only to apply corrosive effect (and sometimes for added DPS on small ships that get close).

the turreted cannon is a marvellous idea I hadn't come up with yet - will instantly give it a try when I get home, thanks man!

How about making the small corrosive MC also turreted?

Mystweaver · Mar 2, 2017

Turnspit said:
the turreted cannon is a marvellous idea I hadn't come up with yet - will instantly give it a try when I get home, thanks man!

How about making the small corrosive MC also turreted?

You could do since it's not really doing decent dps... the only problem with the idea is ammo management. You only really need to burst it every now and then to apply the special effect. If you have it turretted , you will have to turn it off through targetting or switching weapon group. Also considering all other weapons are gimballed; my recommendation is not to have it turretted.

Burlsol said:
Been revisiting the idea, and still having trouble justifying the benefits of a gunship for CZ compared to some of the alternatives....

The gunship still just feels lacking in most places other than raw attack power. In the same price range, the FDL outruns and out-turns it while having the shield capacity to remain close. Clipper built along similar conceptual lines feels like a bigger threat with the higher boost and still reasonably high damage. Courier, DBX, Vulture all feel like more bang for your buck given how quickly a CZ can turn against you.

About the only real benefit I see would be if I swapped in a fighter bay (more damage and distraction), but have also heard that using a fighter is usually a bad idea in a CZ due to the pilot of it dying quickly. So what am I missing?

I think the only thing you are missing is trying it out. With it's powerful power distributor, you will find that it's FA/off Boost manoeuverablity can keep you on target much better than you think. Also, keep in mind that its yaw turn speed is actually quite good so if you can use that instead of pitch when boost turning you'll be quids in.

As for the fighter, its a must... If you stick a size 6 bay, you have 16 fighters. I find I run out of multicannon ammo quicker than I run out of fighters.

Be sure to bind all the fighter commands to easily accessibly keys; especially the "attack my target (or focus target)" bind.

The biggest downside to the gunship is its speed. If a CZ turns against you, you cannot run and your only option is to fight or high wake (which is always a good practice anyway).

Once your shields are down, I found that before module reinforcement packages came along, my thrusters would get annihilated... Now I have them installed though, I haven't had a single issue and been able to high wake if things go that dire.

I have been down to 40% hull and had no modules destroyed thanks to the MRP's; and with a hull of just under 4000 armour, it's as tough as any of the big three (though with lesser hardness to be fair).

But, as mentioned by others above, situational awareness is key and don't think fighters are just there for DPS gain... they are also there as fodder.

For example:

CZ turns and suddenly I have 4+ ships after me. As I prefer to fight, I'd have 4 pips to shields, turn my cannon to fire at will and send my fighter off to engage 2-3 ships (all it needs to do is hit an NPC once (so long as you havent shot it)) and the fighter will aggro. Once it has hit, send it after the next. You should find that a fighter can engage multiple ships as it will zip off to the last one you tell it too while the others are at a distance where their gimballed weapons can't hurt it (much). Exception to this are NPC's with missiles.. which tend to annihilate fighters.

While doing ALL of this, I'm also destroying the smallest ships first in quick succession.
If at the same time you can also fly close to allied NPC's and engage and destroy whatever target they are focusing on, they will then turn on your aggressors and take them off your back allowing you to stay in the fight.

All in all, if you can be bothered with keeping all of the above things in mind, I feel that the gunship outclasses other ships in a CZ with exception of the big 3 (and even then, with 2.3 and the shield changes this may make the gunship a stronger alternative).

Lastly, with 2.3, the gunship has 2 seats

(I wish it had three for gunner and fighter buddies). As such you can have two fighters out - one of them human. This should help considerably (watch this space).

Edit: Another tip that has come to mind is that of course you want to prevent the CZ going bad in the first place (not always simple I know). I therefore always try and stay within a group of allied NPC's. If they have any of the big three, you want to ensure they survive. Taking out smaller ships first will always benefit you since you can kill them quicker than NPC's can in general.

Plus it's always awesome when the scanner shows a field of green with 3-6 reds dropping in waves only to get killed in no time (I've even found that I just boost around getting a hit on every ship that drops so I can claim the combat bonds before my 15+ allies kill them before I focus fire one down).

P.S. My hourly bond count is normally between 6-10 mil without powerplay bonuses; but I've been flying the gunship for a long time and know how it handles... just requires practise and a different mindset to the FDL Shield tank (which I do like to do as well... I just find the gunship is more of a funship).

FYI this is my current build.

It needs further tweaking due to the shield boosters taking up too much power. Having FSD offline is never ideal.

Ceekay · Mar 2, 2017

Try using shield boosters with focused resistances for thermal, kinetic and explosive, the overall resistances will be very similar but the "focused" boosters draw 1.2 MW or less compared with 1.5 MW+ for the resist aug types and I've had some additional shield boost for good measure, (the lower power draw means they're also great for Vultures)