Hardware & Technical Dampening Grease and Restraints for HOTAS

[Kentai]

Hello guys and girls. I'm noticing a great deal of catching with my FCS throttle. It's very difficult to achieve fluid acceleration and I end up pushing the entire throttle across my desk when it sticks. My T16000m joystick just doesn't feel right. The movement seems wobbly and loose. I've heard that dampening grease can remedy this issue and that the most recommended for this application is the NyoGel 767a dampening grease. I found a retailer in the U.S. who sells a 10g tube of it at what seems like a very reasonable price. The larger tube (50g I believe) seemed excessive and price prohibitive and I always found it to be around $30-40, however this 10g tube is only $14.00.

https://www.oveready.com/flashlight/nyogel-767aa-damping-grease-10g-tube/

For anyone who's used this dampening grease is it worth getting a large tube or would 10g be enough to lubricate the joystick and throttle? $14 sounds a lot better but I realize I'm getting considerably less for that price. I also don't know if one application is enough or if it's best to have more in reserve, which could justify the 50g tube since it's a better deal for the amount you get.

Also I'm thinking of tracking down some velcro to apply to the underside of the joystick and throttle and the surface of my glass desk to keep them from sliding around. Has anyone done something similar or have a better recommendation? Thanks for your time CMDRs!

 

[Bran Tse Mallory]

It appears this is not a thread about joystick bondage as I first thought...

I hadn't heard of this before so I did some looking up and well:

[video=youtube;KdUP6UJmB-E]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdUP6UJmB-E[/video]

Seems to do an excellent job!

As for help with the glass table issue velcro would help but you'd be left with a patch of material on the desk when it's not in use - Best to leave the 'fluffy' side there.

 

[ZAKALWEINC8876]

Now THAT is an AWSOME thread title!

My eyebrows nearly shot off the top of my head!

Good luck CMDR o7

 

[PiLhEaD]

I resolved the sticky throttle part of my T.16000FCS Hotas by using small smears of silica gel applied to each of the two rails after loosening the tensioner (it's accessed through a hole in the base of the throttle) to a minimal tension.

You don't need to open up the throttle, as the two bars can be reached through the slot that throttle runs through.

I would have thought the solutions to a sticky throttle and a loose/wobbly joystick would be opposites. - one needs lubrication and the other packing.

...and there's a line I never imagined writing...

 

[Stealthie]

Gotta say, I've always been dubious of the T16000's linear throttle.
Basically, anything that slides needs to be really, really, well-made or it's not going to work smoothly.

I could write a whole essay on why greasing something like a HOTAS throttle probably isn't going to solve anything, although it might provide a temprary improvement.

Suffice to say, I'd suggest just buying the small tube.
That way you can decide whether it's worth the cost or not and then, if you decide it is, you can buy a bigger tube if you want to.

 

[Kentai]

I probably should have read through that title a few times. Maybe then I would have seen how suggestive it is. I guess it's a success since it's getting clicks lol. I think I'll get the small tube to test it out. It may be all I need. I think the 767a technically is a silica gel so I'm hopefully in luck there. I'll definitely put the soft side of the velcro on my desk if I go that route top secure the HOTAS.

Thanks for the advice CMDRs! o7

 

[Kentai]

Gotta say, I've always been dubious of the T16000's linear throttle.
Basically, anything that slides needs to be really, really, well-made or it's not going to work smoothly.

I could write a whole essay on why greasing something like a HOTAS throttle probably isn't going to solve anything, although it might provide a temprary improvement.

Suffice to say, I'd suggest just buying the small tube.
That way you can decide whether it's worth the cost or not and then, if you decide it is, you can buy a bigger tube if you want to.

This is the video that really sold me on the idea. Hopefully I can get the same results. I guess it'd be a good idea to use some isopropyl alcohol to remove whatever Thrustmaster used as a lubricant first.

[video=youtube;A9Kp6QUxbrE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A9Kp6QUxbrE[/video]

 

[PiLhEaD]

Gotta say, I've always been dubious of the T16000's linear throttle. Basically, anything that slides needs to be really, really, well-made or it's not going to work smoothly....

Agreed. The slider throttle has never been anywhere near as smooth as the throttle on my T-Flight HOTAS, but then it has a load more buttons - so it's a bit of a trade-off!

Another irritation is that whilst the throttle's 'rudder paddles' are shown in windows as analogue inputs, for some reason ED will only interpret them as click switches. Most annoying!

 

[Vedmo]

I used to use a Velcro like tape and it worked ok for the T16000 and tm throttle. Sometimes the stick would work loose after hard use.


I made some solid mounts with bolts holding down stuff when I upgraded though, and now going back to Velcro wouldn't really be an option.

Stealthie is right on the throttle. Some lube could help, but ultimately it is a design issue. No need to buy fancy grease at all in my opinion. It's an open track, any lubrication will retain dust and need cleaned/reapplied eventually. I'd wager some Vaseline would work just as well.

 

[Stealthie]

This is the video that really sold me on the idea. Hopefully I can get the same results. I guess it'd be a good idea to use some isopropyl alcohol to remove whatever Thrustmaster used as a lubricant first.

I have no idea what that video (or the other one, previously posted in this thread) is supposed to be advocating, TBH.

It appears to be demonstrating the damping properties of the grease and, unless unwanted movement of the throttle is the problem, I don't see how it's serving any useful purpose.

The primary use for that grease is for things like telescopic sights and microscopes.
In devices such as those, unwanted movement IS an issue so you really do want damping to prevent it.

In joysticks and throttles I don't really see how damping is a concern.
The two things that are a concern are likely to be stiction and friction.

Basically, if you push on the throttle and it takes more force to start it moving than it takes to keep it moving then the problem is stiction.
If it takes an unacceptable amount of force to keep it moving, the problem is friction.

In both cases, chances are that it's poor manufacturing tolerences that cause the issue.
In that case, applying grease is only ever going to be a temporary solution because if a device can't retain the grease then eventually the grease is all going to end up moving to places where it isn't doing a lot of good.

Anyway, the grease obviously has some lubricating properties as well as damping properties and if it's viscous enough to stay where you put it for a couple of months, it'll probably help improve things while it remains in place.

Personally, I'd only ever apply a tiny dab of grease to the rails the throttle runs on - just enough to make it run smoothly.
I have no idea why anybody would want a throttle to operate the way that video seems to depict.

 

[the100thmonkey]

Aren't there a few screws accessible on the base of the throttle that can be loosened to improve the action? I'm sure I've seen that before. In fact, I'm sure I read something about it on the intertubes and posted a reply as such to a similar thread.

Here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hoggit/comments/6gk8ct/thrustmaster_twcs_throttle_friction_solution/

 

[Morbad]

I have two complete CH setups and a T16000m FCS.

I'm using one of the CH setups as a control and I have Nyogel 767a on essentially every analog moving component of the other, except the pots themselves, and the throttle's slide mechanism, which I use a much lighter silicone+teflon spray to lubricate. I also use Nyogel 767a on the rails of the 16000m FCS throttle. In both cases the damping grease is a noticeable improvement.

would 10g be enough to lubricate the joystick and throttle?

It takes less than half a gram to throughly cover the FCS throttle rails and probably not much more for the stick.

Also I'm thinking of tracking down some velcro to apply to the underside of the joystick and throttle and the surface of my glass desk to keep them from sliding around. Has anyone done something similar or have a better recommendation? Thanks for your time CMDRs!

I use this: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...select=8710676+8710815+8710962+8716423&rt=rud

If anything it's a bit too strong and I'd limit the total contact area to about 3-4 square inches between each component and the desk, if you want to be able to remove them without running the risk of breaking something. There is zero wobble, squish, or secondary movement like you can get with most hook and loop fasteners.

Anyway, the grease obviously has some lubricating properties as well as damping properties and if it's viscous enough to stay where you put it for a couple of months, it'll probably help improve things while it remains in place.

Nyogel 767a is extremely viscous and tacky. It will last years, if not decades. I haven't had to reapply it to anything.

 

[PiLhEaD]

Aren't there a few screws accessible on the base of the throttle that can be loosened to improve the action? I'm sure I've seen that before. In fact, I'm sure I read something about it on the intertubes ....

No, not a 'few screws', just one.

'I'm sure you read something about it on'..... .....this very thread....

I resolved the sticky throttle part of my T.16000FCS Hotas by using small smears of silica gel applied to each of the two rails after loosening the tensioner (it's accessed through a hole in the base of the throttle) to a minimal tension....

...fer flips sake...

 

[Zieman]

Another irritation is that whilst the throttle's 'rudder paddles' are shown in windows as analogue inputs, for some reason ED will only interpret them as click switches. Most annoying!

Not in my experience. I use them for fine tuning FSS slider, they work as an axis, albeit a very sensitive (as in small movement of paddle translates to large movement on the axis) one. Just remember to bind them as an axis, not as buttons.

EDIT: just tested as ship roll axis, works fine.

 

[Kentai]

I have two complete CH setups and a T16000m FCS.

I'm using one of the CH setups as a control and I have Nyogel 767a on essentially every analog moving component of the other, except the pots themselves, and the throttle's slide mechanism, which I use a much lighter silicone+teflon spray to lubricate. I also use Nyogel 767a on the rails of the 16000m FCS throttle. In both cases the damping grease is a noticeable improvement.



It takes less than half a gram to throughly cover the FCS throttle rails and probably not much more for the stick.



I use this: https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/company...select=8710676+8710815+8710962+8716423&rt=rud

If anything it's a bit too strong and I'd limit the total contact area to about 3-4 square inches between each component and the desk, if you want to be able to remove them without running the risk of breaking something. There is zero wobble, squish, or secondary movement like you can get with most hook and loop fasteners.



Nyogel 767a is extremely viscous and tacky. It will last years, if not decades. I haven't had to reapply it to anything.

That 3M product seems like the perfect solution. Thank you very much for pointing me in that direction! I'm happy to hear that you've had good results from the NyoGel and will definitely go for the 10g tube. Really appreciate all the help!

 

[mbar]

@OP I have the same T16000m throttle and it also stuck in different areas. Using NyoGel 767a dampening grease made all the difference in the world. I had used lithium grease in the past but it just did not work well with this throttle. I tried a few other greases. I finally bought the dampening grease and that solved the issues. Nice smooth movement now. I had bought the larger tube. I'd say if you only want to use the grease on the T16000m then you'll probably be fine buying the lesser amount. I applied the grease once 9 months ago. I've yet to feel the need to reapply it and I don't think I will need to for some time. The throttle and stick just rest on their rubber feet with no problem.

 

[Morbad]

Not in my experience. I use them for fine tuning FSS slider, they work as an axis, albeit a very sensitive (as in small movement of paddle translates to large movement on the axis) one. Just remember to bind them as an axis, not as buttons.

EDIT: just tested as ship roll axis, works fine.

The FCS paddles work fine for me as well and have been my forward/reverse thruster override when I use the setup for ED.

I do run a sensitivity slope/curve on it to make it more precise.

That 3M product seems like the perfect solution. Thank you very much for pointing me in that direction! I'm happy to hear that you've had good results from the NyoGel and will definitely go for the 10g tube. Really appreciate all the help!

You're welcome.

 

[the100thmonkey]

No, not a 'few screws', just one.

'I'm sure you read something about it on'..... .....this very thread....





...fer flips sake...

I actually hadn't read your post, but there you go.

 

[Kentai]

When applying dampening grease, or any type of lubricant to the rails of the throttle would it be better to apply a line to the full length of the rails or just put the grease near the location where the throttle is riding the rails (so it would spread the grease when moved back and forth)?

 

[Morbad]

When applying dampening grease, or any type of lubricant to the rails of the throttle would it be better to apply a line to the full length of the rails or just put the grease near the location where the throttle is riding the rails (so it would spread the grease when moved back and forth)?

Ideally, you'll want to thoroughly clean off all the old lubricant (wipe off the bulk of it then spray it down with a plastic safe degreaser), then apply a thin layer of damping grease to the length of the rails and the area of the slide that contacts the rails. A little extra won't hurt, but you don't need a lot.

You'll also want to replace the grease where the potentiometer arm attaches to the underside of the throttle slider. However, something less tacky than 767a would be better for this.