Deal breaker. Please answer my questions.

[Frontal]

Ok, so a couple of my friends and me are tempted to buy this game but there are some things that might be a deal breaker.
So here we go:

Question 1: Private groups?

So, me and my friends we want to be some sort of pvp invested group either by pirating/bounty hunting/escorting, etc etc.
Can people just go to a private lobby and by-pass us by going into a "private mode" and thus having no risk of losing anything?
Can people just go into a "private mode" every time they want to transport something valuable and deny any pvp risk?
How are pirates supposed to make a living like this then?
Black-listing players? How can people pvp like this?

Question 2: Risk vs Reward

How does it apply? Are there different sec systems like eve-online? What are the consequences of your actions?

Question 3: Sandbox interaction

If question 1 and 2 are as bad as I think they are, then this one will already be ruined but I'll ask anyway.
What's there to promote a mmo environment where people fight over territory/trade/politics etc?
Is this game even an mmo if I can just block out every other player when it's not convenient for me?


I hope you people can answer these questions. Thanks for your time.

 

[Rolands]

The game makes instances, like bf4 but with less players and there is a high chance that you wont be able to meet your friend, cause of this p2p instancing and if you dont drag players out of sc one by one you wont be doing much pvp not even speaking about group pvp, but you can fly around and its a pretty universe.

 

[cmdr awesome]

Question 1.
Apologies if this is a bit heavy handed, but this question has been asked before. Every player can choose to play solo (just themselves), in a private group (just their friends), or in open play (with everyone else).
It sounds like you want to be in open play, where you can make a living as a pirate from NPCs and other players. You will never see the solo players or private groups, so don't let their existence bother you.

There is a set of the player community that considers anything other than open play to be somehow gamebreaking. This set of people seem to intersect closely with PVP players, and seem to be motivated to play in a 'target rich environment'. They fail to understand that:
- If a player who would otherwise choose to play solo is forced online and has a bad PVP experience, they are less likely to continue playing
- This is bad for the player, bad for FD, and not exactly a huge win for the PVP victor. Overall bad.
- A solo player does not affect an online player at all. They interact with the markets sure, but only in the same way as players in other islands.
- The concern around a player trading in solo until they can afford a powerful ship and then moving to open play to cause trouble is misplaced - a solo player would most likely lack the combat skill in a PVP situation.

Question 2.
Your actions impact your reputation with the major and minor factions. Upset people and you may get a fine to pay for minor infractions and a bounty for more serious offences. Factions have different priorities, so if you boil some feds the empire might think you're great.

Question 3.
There is conflict in the galaxy, so there will be combat opportunities with players on all sides. The emperor is sick so there will be a power struggle within the empire, and probably the feds will take the opportunity for some offensive action too.

Summary - those that want PVP will be able to find it, but they won't be able to force it on those that don't want it.

 

[Watcher]

1/ Yes, people can bypass you by operating in their own private group or playing solo. Many people choose to play the 'open' game but the balance on this is unclear.

2/ Some systems are naturally more risky than others. This doesn't appear to be entirely clearly indicated or immediately obvious, rich systems do seem to be more heavily policed though. Attacking people will get a bounty on you head, this can be increased in various ways. Plenty of other ways to accrue fines and so on. There are multiple jurisdictions so you could be a wanted criminal in one location and 'clean' somewhere else - people can still find out about the other bounties though and may come after you for them invoking the wrath of the local authorities... There is a putative reputation system, this allows you to build up trust in the main factions (federation, empire, alliance) but also locally within a system's factions. These relationships open up more missions and possibly kit and other incentives.

3/ With the exception of trade these aren't presently aspects of the game being focussed on by Frontier. You are a pilot of a small ship in a big world and your impact isn't huge. There are meant to be player driven in game events - how these play out is likely to be based on the behaviour of players as a whole and mediated by FD rather than directly a consequence of some group of players saying "X is going to be happening to territory Y now". There is talk of more direct involvement in the (distant) future but we'll have to see.
While trade is an important aspect of ED the idea of controlling trade isn't something that is really there - this is again something that may come out of in game events.
Worth saying that a fleshed out missions system tied together with the allegiances stuff might prove for a more dynamic environment but again we have to see.

 

[Conaven]

I fear you will not find exactly what you are looking for.

While Eve is a player driven universe ED is a bot driven universe.
So you try to compare a PvP environment vs a primary PvE environment.

That means most of your contact and therefore targets will be bots, with here and there a player mixed in. Players have very little influence so far. The only ones I know atm are discovering new systems/ resources and fighting for a certain fraction so it will win a system battle (while here you will always find players. But they will not have any trading goods).

In addition ED allows you to switch at any point into solo mode and back. Same goes with private groups. The only way you can not 'hide' from other players is when you have a bounty on your head (then you are supposed to be stuck in open play).
It should also be noted here that it is not necessary to switch do evade you. When you are on the 'ignore' list of the other player it is fairly unlikely that he will be placed in the same instance as you are in at that moment (again except he has a bounty).

Considering the Risk vs Reward. Yes there are different systems. From Anarchy(0.0) to High security(1.0), while so far the high security is not anywhere close as protected as it is in eve the case where the police directly drops in and kills you instantly.

Concerning your Sandbox:
Again the nature of the game is more to discover and have a nice evening, enjoy the scenery and maybe find something you didn't expect. Not so much on competitive gameplay (an issue for all players wanting to pirate here since they want to attack players and not bots while most players seem to favor more the work together or switch to solo if that doesn't work).

 

[Sandmann]

These are not the droids you are looking for.

 

[Frontal]

Answers

I'm sorry, but your answer seems to lack any grasp on the term mmo and sandbox impact.

If I have the option of doing all my trading 100% safe, I will do it 100% of the time. This leads to pirates never having the chance of getting my haul, aka good luck making it profitable pirates.

You say that players can't impact the market because it's like "other islands"? What? Markets are influenced by supply/demand + risk/reward. If there is no risk the supply goes up because you can safely trade anything. If there is no risk the demand goes down, because you can safely trade anything. The market will be inflated in less than a month in most mmos with such a system.

The argument that people being forced to play online will quit is why single player games exist. Sandbox mmos are shaped and created by the community, if this community is non existent it is not a sandbox, or an mmo. Making this hybrid thing will only turn this into a single player game that requires internet connection.

An offline player has a massive impact in an online player, for one that's one less player to interact with. Imagine if you could go "offline mode" in eve online and make all your money that way. The game would tank in no time.
Why even play an mmo if your interest is to play offline?

Your answer to question 3 was also... wut. You are talking about PvE content with probably some "offline moded" players interacting with it. I asked about player sandbox interaction. I'm not trying to play skyrim in space.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

1) Yes, people who don't want to PvP can avoid it by playing solo or in a private group, for example there is a rather large PvE group.

Pirates can make money by taking down NPC ships or player ships - although there has been discussion how randomly pulling players out of SC and blasting them (griefers) will simply cause everyone to move to private groups. Not certain it will entirely happen, but people fear it happening so many will play private groups to avoid the risk altogether. On the other hand, it may mean that if you are playing open then others who are playing open consent to PvP. Main thing is, don't be a jerk. Don't go pulling people out of SC who are flying small ships, especially the sidewinder. Its not going to be worth it anyway, and basically you will be griefing new players.

2) No idea about these. But you want ED to be like EVE, then i think you are going to be disappointed.

3) Its not an MMO. Its a multiplayer game, but definitely not MMO.

 

[Avnas]

i'm pretty sure the only reason there's been no conflict because the game isn't released yet. i know the emperor just died, so there's probably going to be some sort of war on release day.

you have an impact on the world. you can destabilize a system by doing missions against it or shooting up it's security and trade, or you can make it better by supplying it with goods, services and equipment.

usually, cargo is your main risk. - sometimes, if you're a pirate or if you're wanted in the system you'll be fired upon by the system security. you can make plenty of money smuggling. other than that, the bigger/better equipped your ship is, the more expensive it is to rebuy when you die, so it's more risky to have the more expensive stuff.

 

[Frontal]

Well anyway. Thanks for the answers. This is not the game for sandbox mmo seekers. Such a shame because the mechanics are ripe for it.

On to the next game.

 

[SuBSynk]

Well anyway. Thanks for the answers. This is not the game for sandbox mmo seekers. Such a shame because the mechanics are ripe for it.

On to the next game.

Thx for popping in, seeya

 

[Jockey79]

Ok, so a couple of my friends and me are tempted to buy this game but there are some things that might be a deal breaker.
So here we go:

Question 1: Private groups?

So, me and my friends we want to be some sort of pvp invested group either by pirating/bounty hunting/escorting, etc etc.
Can people just go to a private lobby and by-pass us by going into a "private mode" and thus having no risk of losing anything?
Can people just go into a "private mode" every time they want to transport something valuable and deny any pvp risk?
How are pirates supposed to make a living like this then?
Black-listing players? How can people pvp like this?

Question 2: Risk vs Reward

How does it apply? Are there different sec systems like eve-online? What are the consequences of your actions?

Question 3: Sandbox interaction

If question 1 and 2 are as bad as I think they are, then this one will already be ruined but I'll ask anyway.
What's there to promote a mmo environment where people fight over territory/trade/politics etc?
Is this game even an mmo if I can just block out every other player when it's not convenient for me?


I hope you people can answer these questions. Thanks for your time.

You and your friends can PvP with each other all you like, no one will stop you. You can do it in a private group or out in the open so others can join you, but the main point to remember is what Awesome said;

Summary - those that want PVP will be able to find it, but they won't be able to force it on those that don't want it.

As you spouted EVE Online Frontal as your example, I can only assume you wanted to find the same thing here (plus your perceived tone "then this one will already be ruined but I'll ask anyway").
IF your idea of fun is forced PvP on travellers, traders and miners - well, wrong game. You will have loads of NPC victims and some other like minded folks doing it back to you, but the traders / miners will all be in private groups or solo so they only have NPC pirates to worry about.

 

[Sallen]

Well anyway. Thanks for the answers. This is not the game for sandbox mmo seekers. Such a shame because the mechanics are ripe for it.

On to the next game.

It may look grim at first sight, but I urge you to keep an eye on this game the following months.
The game has barely anything in it and could take many paths from where it is. As you said, the mechanics are ripe for it, so perhaps there will be developments that will make it more to your liking.

Thx for popping in, seeya

What's with the passive aggressiveness?

 

[SuBSynk]

What's with the passive aggressiveness?

Sorry but i get so much of these same questions on twitch daily and the forums are the same, if people cannot spend 5mins to look into the game but instead ask questions they obviously know the answer to then progress to argue about why features are wrong etc then i feel its fine to mimic such a tone with a response like i gave.

 

[Robert Maynard]

The game has barely anything in it and could take many paths from where it is. As you said, the mechanics are ripe for it, so perhaps there will be developments that will make it more to your liking.

I would not wager on players losing the freedom to choose play mode on a per-session basis, neither would I assume that territorial control / corporations / guilds / etc. will be included any time soon (if at all).

 

[Tyr07]

I pvp.
I trade.
I explore.
I mission.

I do it all in open online mode only. Come at me brah. Once salvaging gets added, you'll just become pieces of something I put in my cargo hold to sell later XD

 

[brumster]

I'll make it short and sweet...

So, me and my friends we want to be some sort of pvp invested group either by pirating/bounty hunting/escorting, etc etc.
Can people just go to a private lobby and by-pass us by going into a "private mode" and thus having no risk of losing anything?

Yes, players can choose to play in solo mode which means they won't experience meeting anyone online. But they can't selectively block just you, for example, and yet stay online. It's an all-or-nothing decision on their part.

Can people just go into a "private mode" every time they want to transport something valuable and deny any pvp risk?

Yes

How are pirates supposed to make a living like this then?

Do it on NPCs, if you can't find any unsuspecting real world players.

Black-listing players? How can people pvp like this?

I think it's fair to say that ED isn't really a PvP-focused game, to be honest. It doesn't feel like it's a core dynamic.

Question 2: Risk vs Reward
How does it apply? Are there different sec systems like eve-online? What are the consequences of your actions?

This is a bit of a hard one to answer in a qualified way. You venture out there with high-value goods, you stand to make more money, but the risk of loss is higher.
High-value targets (bounty hunting) are typically much harder to take down.
Trading in illegal goods can make you easy bucks but you have to hand around independent/anarchy systems in order to sell them, which puts you under the nose of dodgy characters/pirates a bit more.
So yes, there's risk vs reward, although I'm not sure it's balanced entirely across the different money-making methods.

If question 1 and 2 are as bad as I think they are, then this one will already be ruined but I'll ask anyway.
What's there to promote a mmo environment where people fight over territory/trade/politics etc?

Very little, IMHO.

Is this game even an mmo if I can just block out every other player when it's not convenient for me?

Depends on your definition I guess. If it's more than 32 players interacting together, then no, it's not MMO. And to be honest, I've never seen 31 other players in the same instance as me - I doubt my broadband could manage it. I'm lucky to see more than 4 or 5.

Hope that helps!

 

[T0byJug]

On a quick glance i dont think any of you have answered the OP's questions. @OP you cant Jump from Solo play to open world and back again with your Pilot. My understanding is its treated as a separate game! so No you cant buy a valuable cargo Go solo transport it to destination then jump back in to open play and keep the profit!

 

[Robert Maynard]

On a quick glance i dont think any of you have answered the OP's questions. @OP you cant Jump from Solo play to open world and back again with your Pilot. My understanding is its treated as a separate game! so No you cant buy a valuable cargo Go solo transport it to destination then jump back in to open play and keep the profit!

With respect, nonsense.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

If players make being pirated (or avoiding being pirated) an exciting and enjoyable challenge, many will flock to Online Open play.

If players make being pirated an unpleasant, objectionable experience where the intercepted player gets insulted, belittled and needlessly destroyed by at "pirate" players, the Online Open community will lose people to Solo or PvE groups.


I play exclusively Online Open. Collectively, we'll get the experience we deserve. If you reckon you can be part of the solution, and not part of the problem, come join us.