Death sentence for accidental pinging of clean ships..

FubarBundy · Jan 13, 2015

Sure its been mentioned before but I can't help but find the idea of a death warrant being issued for accidentally causing minor damage to a clean ship to be very silly. This is especially so when it is almost always the result of an npc flying into LOS or the targeting computer loosing lock temporarily and ending up over a different ship. I just lost close to 500,000cr by being blasted by a station as the result of a scan (just as I entered) revealing a 200cr bounty for pinging a security vessel which swooped in front of my lasers. Surely minor damage should result in only a fine and death warrants should only be issued for murder or, at most, continued assaults on a clean target?

CMDR MassDef · Jan 13, 2015

it has been mentioned so many times.....

If you like real life examples read this:

If you accidentaly shoot at a cop, wouldnt this automatically be a death warrant for you?

If you are not fond of real life examples then you can always go to a station controlled by another allegiance and pay the fine, thus avoiding getting obliterated.

GerminVermin · Jan 13, 2015

This is the billionth thread on the matter. Use the search function. Please.

SquidgyB · Jan 13, 2015

Also, it really does get easier as you get more experience in dogfights. Used to happen very regularly to me too (early days, 30-40k credits in bounties and I'd have a wanted sign, guaranteed)...

Nowadays I can go +300k without hitting any innocents. Being aware of your surroundings is key here.

Use you scanner and try to keep track of other ships around you - I'll often use their laser fire to figure out roughly where they are, and I've often lifted my finger off the trigger before they're even on the screen.

that said I still get the odd one, either a ship far off in the distance, or one that swoops in quick when I'm not paying attention. Pips to engines/shields and away!

dementia · Jan 13, 2015

SquidgyB said:
Also, it really does get easier as you get more experience in dogfights. Used to happen very regularly to me too (early days, 30-40k credits in bounties and I'd have a wanted sign, guaranteed)...

Nowadays I can go +300k without hitting any innocents. Being aware of your surroundings is key here.

Use you scanner and try to keep track of other ships around you - I'll often use their laser fire to figure out roughly where they are, and I've often lifted my finger off the trigger before they're even on the screen.

that said I still get the odd one, either a ship far off in the distance, or one that swoops in quick when I'm not paying attention. Pips to engines/shields and away!

Agreed. As annoying as it can be, a better awareness in a battle of what is around you is a good skill to develop. Saying that, I would still advocate that it be toned down a little in terms of the consequences though. It has been suggested a few times that a threshold of about 1000cr or even 500cr should be introduced before someone becomes 'wanted' and then open for a good smiting!

FubarBundy · Jan 13, 2015

Its not a case of awareness or experience as it ultimately boils down to luck in the end. Most of the time I avoid hitting anything (several million credits and a master tag to prove it) but even with all the experience and awareness in the world, some numpty will occasionally fly through my lasers so quickly its not avoidable. Certainly not worth death warrant.

GerminVermin · Jan 13, 2015

FubarBundy said:
Its not a case of awareness or experience as it ultimately boils down to luck in the end. Most of the time I avoid hitting anything (several million credits and a master tag to prove it) but even with all the experience and awareness in the world, some numpty will occasionally fly through my lasers so quickly its not avoidable. Certainly not worth death warrant.

What seems like luck to you absolutely DOES boil down to awareness and experience for those of us who are good enough pilots not to have made the mistake of firing on a clean ship in ages.

If you fire on another ship, they're going to defend themselves. Period. Don't like it? Don't attack them, accidental or not. Be mindful. Be conscious of your surroundings. You have a radar and windows for a reason. Use them.

Uueerdo · Jan 13, 2015

I don't consider myself anywhere near an exceptional pilot and I have only been the cause of friendly-fire once; and that was because I got just a little too trigger happy and went "ooh, ship in my sights...ah, dammit." Most of the time I keep enough situational awareness to watch my fire when there are friendlies close enough to my ship or the target to possibly cross the line of fire.

FubarBundy · Jan 13, 2015

sorry but disagree... it is luck. Like I say I hardly ever hit clean ships but every once in a while, whilst in a heated engagement, lady luck will bite you, me or anybody else on the glute's no matter how "good" a pilot. This isn't really the point however, the point is that an accidental ping should not be an automatic death sentence. And no... in real life "accidentally shooting at a police officer" doesn't get you a death warrant if it was obviously an accident.

Ixnatifual · Jan 13, 2015

The devs have said they're working on a solution, so just be patient. Until then, use the map and try not to be too trigger happy. Bounty hunt in a system with easy access to an outpost for when a cop flies in front of you.

GerminVermin · Jan 13, 2015

FubarBundy said:
sorry but disagree... it is luck. Like I say I hardly ever hit clean ships but every once in a while, whilst in a heated engagement, lady luck will bite you, me or anybody else on the glute's no matter how "good" a pilot. This isn't really the point however, the point is that an accidental ping should not be an automatic death sentence. And no... in real life "accidentally shooting at a police officer" doesn't get you a death warrant if it was obviously an accident.

You mean, in the heat of the battle, your target fixation overrides your situational awareness, allowing you to place yourself into the situation where you are shooting a clean target?

It happens to the best of us, occasionally. It's nothing to do with luck. Take some responsibility and grow as a pilot. It's everything to do with skill. 100%.

Also, it's not an automatic death sentence. If it were, your ship would simply explode the moment it happens. You have plenty of time to get out of the area and get back to a station to pay off your fine or your bounty. Stations and station police won't shoot at you until the fine/bounty timer of TWENTY FOUR HOURS expires, so you have plenty of time to go pay off the fine.

norcus · Jan 13, 2015

FubarBundy said:
sorry but disagree... it is luck. Like I say I hardly ever hit clean ships but every once in a while, whilst in a heated engagement, lady luck will bite you, me or anybody else on the glute's no matter how "good" a pilot. This isn't really the point however, the point is that an accidental ping should not be an automatic death sentence. And no... in real life "accidentally shooting at a police officer" doesn't get you a death warrant if it was obviously an accident.

Just boost away, escape into SC, dock, pay your fine and try again ...

FubarBundy · Jan 14, 2015

Nope.. I mean that, no matter how much somebody takes responsibility, nobody can account for 100% of what is going on around them for 100% of the time and so, given enough time in a crowded, target rich engagement zone, friendly fire incidents ARE going to happen... especially whe the AI takes no responsibility for its actions. This is why a death "sentence" (the proclamation that a person is to be killed), is so silly and the resultant explosion ("execution" due to being sentenced over a 200cr bounty, (not fine btw)) when a space station vapourises somebody midway through docking is also silly.
Guess you and I can agree to disagree tho because if the Dev's are working on a solution, (thanks Ixnatifual)... then that's all that really matters

GerminVermin · Jan 14, 2015

FubarBundy said:
Nope.. I mean that, no matter how much somebody takes responsibility, nobody can account for 100% of what is going on around them for 100% of the time and so, given enough time in a crowded, target rich engagement zone, friendly fire incidents ARE going to happen... especially whe the AI takes no responsibility for its actions. This is why a death "sentence" (the proclamation that a person is to be killed), is so silly and the resultant explosion ("execution" due to being sentenced over a 200cr bounty, (not fine btw)) when a space station vapourises somebody midway through docking is also silly.
Guess you and I can agree to disagree tho because if the Dev's are working on a solution, (thanks Ixnatifual)... then that's all that really matters

Life's a B*. Sometimes S* happens. That doesn't mean that the game is broken or that something needs to change. It's an opportunity to learn and become ever better. It's not silly at all. I love that it is this way. You shoot someone, you get shot back at. Love it!

AceJustice · Jan 14, 2015

How hard would it be able to target a friendly and have a "friendly fire pact" option to send? Not hard.

Faded Glory · Jan 14, 2015

Don't go to a station, go to an outpost, pay the fine and carry on. It's only a death sentence if you want it to be.

Titan1978 · Jan 14, 2015

SquidgyB said:
Also, it really does get easier as you get more experience in dogfights. Used to happen very regularly to me too (early days, 30-40k credits in bounties and I'd have a wanted sign, guaranteed)...

Nowadays I can go +300k without hitting any innocents. Being aware of your surroundings is key here.

Use you scanner and try to keep track of other ships around you - I'll often use their laser fire to figure out roughly where they are, and I've often lifted my finger off the trigger before they're even on the screen.

that said I still get the odd one, either a ship far off in the distance, or one that swoops in quick when I'm not paying attention. Pips to engines/shields and away!

No it does not!! Its impossible to be so situationally aware that in a thick of battle and NPC cops zooms into your LOS and gets clipped...
this isn't as much about absolute real world realism..a normal person wont be shooting at cars in front of you in a freeway anyway forget about clipping a a cop who pulls in front of you !! dont talk nonsense...a warning is definitely needed as opposed to the current accidental hit and wanted status

SquidgyB · Jan 14, 2015

I'm not talking nonsense... First few times out I'd have agreed with the OP, but after playing for a while longer I really do think it's skill based.

When I go into a fight I make a mental note of roughly how many ships are firing at the target, where they are and what weapons they're using. I'm not saying I'll remember all this given a pop quiz at the end of the fight, but in the back of my head I'm collecting info on the situation.

Once I'm in range the scanner becomes more important, as I can pre-empt what's going to fly into my view. I also watch the firing arcs of the other ships - if I can see beams/bullets I know where the ship is. If I can't, then I know I need to look at the scanner to give me more info.

...and yes, I get caught out by the odd Eagle or F63 taking a swoop and getting hit when I'm not expecting it. If I do I gauge the situation - what's the bounty I'm currently after worth, how much do I already have cashed, and how many police and hunters are now after me. If the fight is in my favour, or I can at least survive I'll pop the last bounty and head off, maybe even carry on if there's only one or two coppers.

If I want I can SC out of the instance and drop into another one, giving me time to pop a few bounties before someone scans me and realises I'm wanted, and if so, no biggie - I just SC away and sort out the fine/wanted status.

I'd also point out that being wanted is not a death sentence, as previously mentioned. Pips to engines, people.