Deconstructing boredom in ED (or why ED is too easy)

I'm a Kickstarter backer of Elite Dangerous, I've been playing it since June (Premium Beta), and I've been a fan of all the previous Elite games, so I'm not some newbie with wrong ideas about what it should be like. Due to a post by someone else, I had a bit of a brainwave that I wanted to share. This isn't an unhelpful criticism of ED, but rather it's suggestions on how it can be improved.

Most of the time when someone on these forums says it's boring, people who'll defend ED against any criticism (rather than try to understand the other's point of view) will claim they want to be "spoon fed excitement" (or similar). Those arguments are invalid here, because my essential claim is that ED is too easy (but it's more complex than that, so I hope you'll read the rest of my lengthy post before replying).

The kind of boredom I'm talking about is the kind that sets in after you've mastered all of ED's many complexities (which I found was a fun learning curve), and after you've done lots of missions, gone to many different kinds of star systems, and tried pretty much everything that ED has to offer. At that point repetition or "grind" sets in, because of two issues I've discussed many times before:

1. There are a very limited set of missions & types of enemy to encounter. (It's blindingly obvious that Frontier need to add more kinds of missions, so I'm hopeful they are working on this issue as a priority.)
2. Multiplayer should provide variety that the game itself lacks, but it doesn't as multiplayer interaction is very hampered by the limited ways people can work together as a team. (This has been discussed to the death, and Frontier are planning to greatly improve it with a "Wings" update, probably sometime in the next few months.)

I am sure that Frontier Developments will eventually improve ED (as they did during Beta/Gamma), but I'm hoping my suggestions will help them get there quicker. EDIT: I should state that I still enjoy playing ED *sometimes*, but I can no-longer play it for long stints without finding boredom setting in, and several times I've had to take a week or mores break to recover from grinding "burn-out". And lots of Beta players are starting to complain of boredom, so I am not alone.


My main insight, and the reason for this post, is that repetition & grinding doesn't HAVE to be boring. The reason it's boring is that it's mostly too easy, and thus provides no challenge. Without any real challenge, repetition becomes boring, as it's just mindless repetition. There are other openworld & sandbox games which are quite repetitive, but that repetition isn't boring because they are still very challenging. Examples include The Long Dark (the most repetitive game I know, yet I still find it fun after 45 hours because just surviving is a real challenge), and Fallout 3 (it didn't become boring until I got so powerful that I could go into any area & attack any monster without worrying). In fact I would say that most games become boring once there is no challenge. Well, ED doesn't have any challenge after you've mastered it's various complexities, and so it becomes boring. So it needs to be made harder.

Here are some ways that ED is too easy:

1. There are no star systems which are really dangerous, such that'd you have to think twice before going there. Imagine that a bounty target is in a dangerous system, or you can trade a commodity at great profit in a dangerous system, or you want to escape a bounty hunter by going to a dangerous system.

Anarchy systems should be dangerous, but they're not significantly so, and they're actually safer in a way because you can start shooting as soon as someone interdicts you (without waiting to scan them or them to shoot you first). At the very least Anarchies, and low security systems to a lesser degree, should be swarming with high-level pirate NPCs. To balance this, pirate NPCs need fixing such that they don't shoot unless you've got cargo, and not before giving you a proper chance to drop your cargo (for me they usually shoot on sight after a couple of seconds). (There should of course still be some bloodthirsty crazy NPCs, that are just out to kill you, but they don't count as pirates.)

2. NPC ships are mostly too easy. That wasn't always the case. NPC difficulty was dropped during Gamma, I think around the time they linked NPC difficulty to their Elite rating. "Harmless" NPCs still need to be easy, but their skill should increase much quicker (with higher ratings), while "Elite" NPCs should be almost unkillable (without needing to be in an Anaconda). I also find it ridiculous that I'm frequently interdicted by pirates who don't have any shields - think for a minute how stupid that is.

EDIT: 2.5. You can Boost to escape from almost any enemies. This means that if I see multiple enemies, I don't even need to worry about engaging them, as I can always escape. Combat would be more fun, and places would be riskier, if I was forced to fight. Since traders can loose everything, ED would need to be more lenient on people carrying most of their net wealth in cargo. It's not an ideal solution, but neither is the current situation.

3. The Sidewinder is too powerful. I don't run into enough human players, so it might just be that the NPCs are too easy (see above). But I have read other people say the same thing. Players in a vanilla Sidewinder should fear just about any other ship, but as it currently stands I can go just about anywhere in a basic Sidewinder to do trading, bounty hunting & missions. So this is partly down to there being no really dangerous star systems, but the Sidewinder should still be a rubbish ship that you sell for an Eagle or Cobra as soon as you humanly can. Upgrading ships in earlier Elite games used to be essential if you wanted to stay alive, but now it's mostly just a question of wanting more utility slots & internal slots.

There needs to be more of a difference between each ship, as you go up the expense scale. I suggest the shields & hull should be much worse at the lower end. If the Sidewinder's shields & hull crumpled after a few laser shots, it would really feel like a rubbish ship that you want to upgrade or replace ASAP.

And once you reach a Cobra or Viper, there is almost no incentive to go further (unless you are a trader) & their expense makes it almost impossible to go higher anyway (unless you are a trader).

4. When you die, there is almost no penalty (unless you are a trader). This would be easily fixed by Fronter implementing their planned Ironman Mode, where everyone in it only comes across other Ironaman Mode players (plus NPCs of course), and dying is much much harsher: You either loose everything (effectively deleting your Save Game & starting from scratch), or you choose to carry on in the non-Ironman universe (if you are a wuss). Then every single encounter with a hostile ship (NPC or player) would be very stressful, because you literally risk loosing everything. This is something I previously suggested which would make ED much more like The Long Dark.

I have some alternative thoughts on this here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=91298&p=1426581&viewfull=1#post1426581

5. Ships don't cost much to maintain. Imagine if you were a trader (or bounty hunter or whatever) barely managing to stay financially afloat (never mind any dreams of buying a better ship), just like Han Solo (from Star Wars) or Malcolm Reynolds (from Firefly). Then you'd have a real reason to take risky/illegal ventures (which were potentially very profitable). This would again make ED play more like The Long Dark.... however it would also be the biggest & most controversial change to the game, fundamentally changing how it plays, so it would be very hard to get right without upsetting a lot of people. Maybe they could make this an entirely different game mode (like Ironman, or perhaps even as part of Ironman Mode)? EDIT: It has been pointed out to me that the cost of maintaining big trading ships IS rather high already, but I'd still like it to be a problem for ships as small as a Cobra or Hauler.


Fundamentally most of these issues are balance issues. The sort of thing which Frontier should have sorted out before releasing the game, unfortunately they rushed the release of the game (IMHO a few months too early). I also suspect (as other people have claimed) that with each influx of new players in Beta & Gamma, Frontier reduced the games difficulty because a vocal few would complain the game was too hard. Unfortunately they went way too far, and made the game so easy that it's just boring.

I must also add that not everyone finds ED boring. Some people are obviously fine playing a repetitive easy game. That's absolutely fine, but unfortunately not everyone is like that. In fact I'd suggest that a sizable fraction of players aren't like that, and if Frontier hope to retain players for more than a few months they need to do something about the game's lack of long-term difficulty. Without retaining players, there may not be enough to buy the Expansion packs (DLC) that Frontier hope will sustain the development of ED for many years. I'm sure most of us want to get Landing On Planets, or Stealing Someone Else's Ship, so even if you don't find ED boring you still have a reason for wanting other people to keep playing.
 
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I do believe that the smaller patches will add some more meat to the bones as they say.

With the Wings update which is slated for this month/ early February (hopefully) it will add a new layer to the game for co-op play.
I am very much looking forward to this update. Being able to fly around with your buddies, sharing missions/ bounties/ cargo etc.

Also, the story right now is still in early days, we should start seeing things kicking off especially with the political divide between empire and federation.

These things do take time. I'm happy that the current game is relatively solid.

Frontier really had two options...
1. Release a solid game, which lacks the extra features, but keeps the main core of the game solid.

2. Try to push all features for release, without extensive testing. This would ultimately cause the game to be the next AC: Unity.

For me, I'm glad it's not the latter. I'm having a lot of fun flying around, creating my own little story, and just exploring what the game has to offer.
Yet I agree, that the extras are needed in order to keep a lot of the players, playing.

Planetary Landings won't be here until the end of the year. Before then though, we need to see new features coming in, which are not so epic as the PL expansion, but still add new meat for people to chew on.

Only time will tell.

I will say that I am thoroughly enjoying my experience, but there isn't much incentive to plug in the joystick and play at this time. It's more for me as a relaxing, enjoyable experience. I don't feel I'm working towards anything (which is fine), but I do hope that there will be more added to the game in the coming months for us to mess around with.
 
I think you've played the game to its current limits. I still have some major goals to achieve that I haven't had the playtime to get to but overall I completely agree. Difficulty needs to be ramped up in some systems, once they get wings sorted then some missions and systems should be extremely dangerous requiring player escorts for example. The rewards should be great though such as slaves selling for 50k per ton if you got through.

Mission variation and higher risk/rewards included. And yes the sidey is OP.

I'm hoping the devs will follow your suggestions are they would really help spice up the game. My instinct tells me they will but I'm worried as they have made NPC's easier (no shields) after whining.
 
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Great post, not sure about 4 and 5 these need some thought for players who are not trying hard to build up vast cash reserves. I just keep 1 mil in reserve and play the next bit.
 
Trading in this game is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to easy, there should be much faster degredation of trade routes and juicy routes should be much harder to find. This is not coming from any kind of play style balancing angle, just the desire to see trading become more challenging and rewarding when you finally nail down that juicy milk run (that wont last forever).
 
Thanks ChrisH for a really well thought out piece. Its really quite interesting to read how your insights do point out the fault with current criticism and counter criticisms, but also what might be one of the underlying issues with the game as it stands. I can't help but feel that your ideas have great merit, however implementing them - where people in Sidwinders currently might feel they've been nerfed badly etc, might make it difficult in game to implement.

That said, I think you are right, that there needs to be anarchy systems that are really hands off - anyone remember the 'Reavers' in Firefly? Its that sort of idea that makes the long black really dangerous in itself. But risk needs to be balanced with reward. I think the real danger of implementing things is that those who feel they've got a lot to loose, will really 'kick off' badly, without recompense of some form. And to some degree I understand, I mean imagine playing football and someone repeatedly stops the game to implement some change. Ok we go down from 22 players to 20 to 15 and one side because they're bottom league has to start with a one armed goalie (no offence to one armed goalies ;-) I think this is going to be the hardest thing to implement in the game.

Also if they had fenced off more of the galaxy they could at least introduce these changes in areas within the game, so people felt they knew what they were getting into. The only other way I can see is implementing some galaxy wide story driven changes that gives a reason for drastic rebalancing and changes.

However for every person on this forum who likes your ideas and I am one, there will be half a dozen, who want something else and throw their toys out of the pram screaming blue murder about how awful FD are for the way they've handled the game/changes/upgrades/the deficit/El Nino/the general election etc. But great suggestions all the same.

Ab
 
Trading in this game is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay to easy, there should be much faster degredation of trade routes and juicy routes should be much harder to find.
I disagree with your solutions. Good trade routes need to be easy to find (for new players), and should not degrade too fast (otherwise it will cause problems in busy star systems). Instead the best trade routers should just be very risky.
 
Interesting post and you've brought up some good and valid points. In fact my only criticism would be that you seem to be looking at things from a mainly combative point of view. Yes, I understand that the npc interdictions can be kind of weak sometimes and the other points you have made along similar lines. The game is trying to cater for all skill levels here I think, maybe they should consider some way of matching npc skill to player skill in a given combat situation.
 
It's always a fundamental question what kind of players the game is willing to serve or satisfy. And it's reflected in the game mechanincs and in the challenge factor.
Here I wouldn't go far yet as ED is well under development and what I see so far is a rock solid framework which can be filled up with content in every ways. Will see after the first few crysis is sorted out (like the ongoing server issues).

Let's get back to the sidewinder issue :)
As you describe it Chris, the Sidey would be a worthless ship only used by starter players and NPCs until they can get anything else. Like a doormat. It implies that you are thinking about a linear rank of ships choosing one attribute of them as the main point which looks like the ability to create profit. If we render all aspects of the game to come down to the one and only ("making profit") then the whole Elite universe would turn to be two-dimensional like in the old games where you had to make your way from the left side of the screen to the right to "complete" the mission.
I've seen games where some elements had no other role than to "get over it" in order to start the real game. I hope the Sidey will not turn to be a necessary but useless game element just because it's the starter ship. What I would like to see is some more content in the game which increases the variety of valuable purposes so it's not the amount of money where everything comes down whatever you do. (Real life has it but in a game we have the chance to model our world differently to respectfully introduce different set of values.) And with these contents the Sidey could also gain a more meaningful role.
Again the development of ED is ongoing so no verdict here but open eyes how all this will be shaped and formed by the devs :)
 
There are some valid points to the original post, but there's one in particular that I have given some thought, too, but I came to a silghtly different conclusion and that's NPC-difficulty.

Back in the first Elite most NPCs also were pretty much pushovers. The only real danger in fights was when you got stuck in hyperspace with Thargoids and even they weren't that much of a challenge, when you had your Cobra fitted with military lasers, military shield enhancement and an (overpowered) energy bomb. Also some anarchy systems could be dangerous due to the sheer number of opponents you had to fight at once.

In my memory the only REAL danger back then was docking without a docking computer. Everything else was just what you might call "grinding". You grind money for equipment and the occasional galactic hyperdrive and you grind kills for your rating. And those kills came relatively easy, if you didn't accidentally shoot a space station or tried to be a pirate, which meant no docking in lawful stations. The only thing that remained to the players, once they had everything about their Cobra maxed out, was trying to get to Elite, which took (due to a bug) an insane ammount of time.

This is somewhat a similar problem to what we have now: You are way better than most NPCs in almost anything you fly, so racking up kills is no challenge. The moneymaking is a problem that traders can deal with quite efficiently and the new exploration is also kind of "easy", as there are very little dangers involed.

So my only qualm is actually that there is absolutely no combat situation that challenges me in my Viper or Cobra, because I seldomly face three or more opponents. If they implemented this in some of the more lawless systems (and maybe some Thargoids), combat will be almost the same as back in the day.
 
your ideas have great merit, however implementing them - where people in Sidwinders currently might feel they've been nerfed badly etc, might make it difficult in game to implement.
I never claimed that balancing ED is easy. It's not. But Frontier do need to be actively looking at fixing the difficulty issue, and it's not clear if they are at the moment.
 
I agree with most of that except about the sidewinder. I just don't think it's worth the time and effort on the devs part to put in useless ships that no one wants to fly.

People complain about repetition, but as far as I know there has never been one video game ever made that wasn't repetitive, it's all about the context.

The game needs more character.

I'm not bored yet though, I still love it, but then I have an overactive imagination......
 
4. When you die, there is almost no penalty (unless you are a trader). This would be easily fixed by Fronter implementing their planned Ironman Mode, where everyone in it only comes across other Ironaman Mode players (plus NPCs of course), and dying is much much harsher: You either loose everything (effectively deleting your Save Game & starting from scratch), or you choose to carry on in the non-Ironman universe (if you are a wuss). Then every single encounter with a hostile ship (NPC or player) would be very stressful, because you literally risk loosing everything. This is something I previously suggested which would make ED much more like The Long Dark.

5. Ships don't cost much to maintain. Imagine if you were a trader (or bounty hunter or whatever) barely managing to stay financially afloat (never mind any dreams of buying a better ship), just like Han Solo (from Star Wars) or Malcolm Reynolds (from Firefly). Then you'd have a real reason to take risky/illegal ventures (which were potentially very profitable). This would again make ED play more like The Long Dark.

Fundamentally most of these issues are balance issues. The sort of thing which Frontier should have sorted out before releasing the game, unfortunately they rushed the release of the game (IMHO a few months too early). I also suspect (as other people have claimed) that with each influx of new players in Beta & Gamma, Frontier reduced the games difficulty because a vocal few would complain the game was too hard. Unfortunately they went way too far, and made the game so easy that it's just boring.

Chris, what a great post. You raise some really interesting and valid points... almost pointing out the obvious which is so obvious it's overlooked! With regard to point four and five I think really they are very closely related. I'd not necessarily agree with ironman mode differentiation but would call for a general increase or scalability of insurance costs....or maintenance costs.. something like that anyway - I can see a point in the future (if we're not there already) where some people are swimming in credits.
 
So my only qualm is actually that there is absolutely no combat situation that challenges me in my Viper or Cobra, because I seldomly face three or more opponents. If they implemented this in some of the more lawless systems (and maybe some Thargoids), combat will be almost the same as back in the day.
That sounds like a great suggestion. I recall that some of the Combat Training Scenarios (I've never tried the Training Missions that they evolved into) were insanely difficult when there were several ships. I'd dearly love to see that kind of difficulty in the main game.

I guess that another problem is that I can simply Boost away from anyone who looks too scary (or there are too many enemies), rather than be forced to fight them. I'll add that to my first post.
 
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I was just thinking, but only thinking - this is not request or whinning - that much more advanced customisation of ships may be something pretty interesting and may add multiple hours of fun.

Current ships should be just a frame, modules should be tweakable, changable, overchargeable, ships should change they models, if I will pay good and find all the parts, order them on stations and deliver resources to station, I should be able to apply another 30 cargo space to my T6 and this ships should look like modified. To find where I can buy something I should search for clues on stations, like some NPC dialogs or something... Like bar in Freelancer. Loosing such ships would mean that you are again back in standard ships, cause insurance can only provide standard ones.

And sidewinder is good in current state, as people who are starting are not facing high wall before them.
 
3. The Sidewinder is too powerful. I don't run into enough human players, so it might just be that the NPCs are too easy (see above). But I have read other people say the same thing. Players in a vanilla Sidewinder should fear just about any other ship, but as it currently stands I can go just about anywhere in a basic Sidewinder to do trading, bounty hunting & missions. So this is partly down to there being no really dangerous star systems, but the Sidewinder should still be a rubbish ship that you sell for an Eagle or Cobra as soon as you humanly can. Upgrading ships in Elite used to be essential if you wanted to stay alive, but now it's mostly just a question of wanting more utility slots & internal slots.

There needs to be more of a difference between each ship, as you go up the expense scale. I suggest the shields & hull should be much worse at the lower end. If the Sidewinder's shields & hull crumpled after a few laser shots, it would really feel like a rubbish ship that you want to upgrade or replace ASAP.

And once you reach a Cobra or Viper, there is almost no incentive to go further (unless you are a trader) & their expense makes it almost impossible to go higher anyway (unless you are a trader).

I agree with most of what you say but this bit is somewhat contradictory. If there was enough variety and range of challenge available then the game would be less reliant on a kit based power progression mechanic, this is a good thing because it breaks the mould set by every other MMO to date (with the notable exception of planetside): they all, to a greater or lesser extent, use kit progression or some kind of stat leveling as a substitute for actual game diversity and interest and I want to see ED go a different route: I want it to have actual interest and diversity in the gameplay to an extent that kit progression isnt needed to keep people playing.

Ultimately a more varied richer and challenging game needs to be driven by a sophisticated and state-full background simulation e.g. persistent USS's and persistent NPCs tied into faction political/economic/military activities, and missions which flow from the actions of all of these things, and general player interactions with them.
 
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The problem is though they cant make it any harder. Theres been none stop complaints to make it less dangerous. Remove consequences, challenge, and remove likely hood of death. Its considered tedious. Grind in peace was a common phrase I heard. Also being able to sell your your shields and lasers to grind faster was another common request.
 
I disagree with your solutions. Good trade routes need to be easy to find (for new players), and should not degrade too fast (otherwise it will cause problems in busy star systems). Instead the best trade routers should just be very risky.

Well I think the busier the system the quicker the route should degrade, to add incentive to find new routes. I agree with your idea though and dont think it clashes with mine as much as you think. If you are going to make some routes pay better, you are going to have to reduce profits on others to remain balanced, my ideas would do that.
 
If you focus making the game easy enough for new players that also effects the experienced players difficulty. You cant do both. There is no mastering required. Trying too hard to please new players is why learning curves are pretty much a thing of the past.
 
Your points are well put and I like 1 and 2; have some rep. Regarding 3, 4 and 5 - These would add appeal for the serious gamer, but could easily make the game too tough for the casual gamer. My hardcore gaming days are over, and I really want ED to appeal to the casual gamer (i.e. me). Balancing hardcore/casual gamer appeal is a tricky one.
 
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