Delete Chaff from the game (and make gimballed weapon weaker)

vrcan

V
Was thinking about gimbaled weapon, and... because they have wide fire arc, they should be much smaller and weaker than their fixed variants. Yes i noticed they are weaker as fixed, but not much. And its good because they are countered by chaff, so in current system they are adequate powerfull.

And also... I think a chaff is quite obsolete idea and only silent run shoult be a counter to gimbals.

so....

I think:

1. Delete chaff from the game (I hate it... it waste utility slot(s), need to be timed, it has ammo, and chaffing looks stupid imo)

2. make gimbals weaker, much weaker. I think its fair price for "aim bot" and wider fire arc


Is it stupid idea?
 

JohnRoberts

JohnRoberts
Some months ago there were proposals and even a beta that included changes to gimballed weapons - specifically (as I recall) narrower arc, and coupling their effectiveness to the grade of the sensor package. Some interesting ideas there, but, ultimately, all rejected by the community.

However, proposing to delete chaff from the game becuase you "hate it", or that it wastes an utility slot is really not going to get any traction. if you dont like that chaff wastes a utility slot, here's a top tip: dont equip it. If you would rather counter gimbals by going to silent running, absolutely no-one or nothing is preventing you doing it now. (But please, post some video).
 

vrcan

V
I just think its wrong game mechanics, when gimbaled build have very different result regarding if opponent have chaff (or two) or dont have any.
I can imagine it much better, if chaff no exist + weaker gimballed (optionally + silent run which do not disable shield).
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
Chaff is a very important defensive module for smaller ships. They'd be almost completely screwed without it.

If chaff is annoying you, install missiles. :D

1) they're not effected by chaff.
And 2) once shields are down, you can sub target the chaff, and destroy it. :D

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 

vrcan

V
JohnRoberts said:
if you dont like that chaff wastes a utility slot, here's a top tip: dont equip it. If you would rather counter gimbals by going to silent running, absolutely no-one or nothing is preventing you doing it now. (But please, post some video).
Click to expand...

Is that sarcasm really necessary?

1st dilema.... chaff or not, single or dual.... on ships with 4 utility slots yes, its dilema. Not only mine. And also even bigger dilema it is, because dual chaff is much more effective than single. And dual chaff = 2 utility slots, its half of slots of almost every pvp ship (yes, fdl is lucky)

2nd dilema, silent run. You said "absolutely no-one or nothing is preventing you doing it now". You are wrong, somenthing is preventing doing that - if you turn SR, you disable own shields, you dont know? So SR is viable only for hull tanks, and they are, countered already by many ways (packhounds, scramble, HYC, etc .... and incoming enzymes)

Your attitude is like "why you even dare to try create somenthing different, or even better as it is?"
 

vrcan

V
Chrystoph said:
Just another PvP player saying that they want more advantage against their targets.

Stop weasling and say what you mean.
Click to expand...

....and I am saying about you - just another man with prejudices.
I am not going to explain or convince you if i use or not gimbals, not important.

What i mean? Just i think its not best as it is - i mean mechanics Gimbal (aim bot) and chaff (anti aim bot).
And my primary idea include one huge detail which you probably did not noticed "2. make gimbals weaker, much weaker."
So it just means - gimbal build can do damage all the time, but lower. Now it is almost just one extrem - depending if oponent have chaff or not.
 

StiTch

StiTch
vrcan said:
Is that sarcasm really necessary?

1st dilema.... chaff or not, single or dual.... on ships with 4 utility slots yes, its dilema. Not only mine. And also even bigger dilema it is, because dual chaff is much more effective than single. And dual chaff = 2 utility slots, its half of slots of almost every pvp ship (yes, fdl is lucky)

2nd dilema, silent run. You said "absolutely no-one or nothing is preventing you doing it now". You are wrong, somenthing is preventing doing that - if you turn SR, you disable own shields, you dont know? So SR is viable only for hull tanks, and they are, countered already by many ways (packhounds, scramble, HYC, etc .... and incoming enzymes)

Your attitude is like "why you even dare to try create somenthing different, or even better as it is?"
Click to expand...

Don't fret it mate, some people get scared when you suggest making skill relevant.

IMO chaff should stay, but the gimbal arc link with sensors could do with a revisit. I'm tentative about any direct damage nerfs with shields getting even more powerful in the new engineering system.
 

Skipnik

Skipnik
Why would you want to weaken gimbels and take away chaff?.. Just to open the gap between fixed weapon users and gimbal? There are other methods of eluding gimbal fire other than chaff and silent running. Use the multiple engineering mods that cover that. In a game where SOME people are calling for more automation (better auto dock, Jump computers, supercruise bots) you really think they want to have to aim, HAHA!!. + tbf you need some gimbals on a cutter, the games good but not worth losing hair over! PEEEZ
 

Wolf Starslayer

Wolf Starslayer
What this the fixed only pvp mafia? There has already been a buff to fixed weapons and a decrease in the gimbal arcs, I see no need to further weaken them. Fixed weapons should not be the only weapons to be viable in combat.
 
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Deleted member 38366

D
ecob81 said:
Chaff is actually used by real aircraft.

Check this out https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8KOMiLBqh-4

I quite like things like this in game would be true to real life.
Click to expand...

Arguably, that's Flares, producing a distinct Thermal Signature and protecting against Heat-Seeking Missiles.
Actual Chaff in turn is designed to defeat a Radar Lock and isn't heat-based by any means.

Since we don't have Radar in ELITE so far, we're basically using Flares - which erroneously are called 'Chaff' for some reason.
 

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
StiTch said:
Don't fret it mate, some people get scared when you suggest making skill relevant.

IMO chaff should stay, but the gimbal arc link with sensors could do with a revisit. I'm tentative about any direct damage nerfs with shields getting even more powerful in the new engineering system.
Click to expand...

I'd like sensors to play a bigger role in targetting, and tracking, as well as being able to counter countermeasures alittle.

Other than sensor range, there's no point in using A rated.

Sensors modules could do with an overhaul too, they're currently class locked, as a form of mass balancing.
If they become unlocked, but more important to scanners, tracking, and whatnot, they become self balancing again.

So you could install 1D sensors on your Anaconda and save a crap tonne of mass, but you won't be able to detect much beyond your nose, tracking will be practically zero, and scanners would work much slower.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 

Crank Larson

Crank Larson
Makes no sense to me. Gimballed are weaker, and chaff works much better against them than silent running. But then, you can use gimballed as fixed weapons anyway by deselecting the target.

Chaff has its place, gimballed weapons have their place, and personally I like how they both work.

Just because you don't like chaff doesn't mean it should be taken away from everyone else. ;) I also don't like it, and have never had it on any of my ships. I do like it when opponents use it, though, as it means that I need to use different tactics. I'm looking forward to Beyond, as I've discovered that the Alliance Chieftain with three short range rails and three overpowered multicannons (gimballed) is an awesome fighting machine. I don't want chaff to disappear at all.
 

Deleted member 110222

D
FalconFly said:
Arguably, that's Flares, producing a distinct Thermal Signature and protecting against Heat-Seeking Missiles.
Actual Chaff in turn is designed to defeat a Radar Lock and isn't heat-based by any means.

Since we don't have Radar in ELITE so far, we're basically using Flares - which erroneously are called 'Chaff' for some reason.
Click to expand...

To be fair, to the best of my knowledge at least, IRL chaff doesn't glow bright red.

Who's to say our chaff isn't superheated?
 
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