Destroyed ships should drop a survey cache

[nanite2000]

Any ship with unclaimed exploration data should drop a survey cache when destroyed that is persistent for a set period of time.

This could provide 2 potential gameplay elements:

1. Players would have an opportunity to return to their last location and reclaim their lost data. This would give explorers an incentive to return to their far flung corner of the galaxy and pickup where they left off.
2. Other players would have the opportunity to 'steal' someone else's exploration data and claim it for themselves.

To prevent this mechanic from creating a credit exchange black market, stolen data caches would have some restrictions:

• Their exploration data can only be claimed at low security/black market stations, or insterstellar factors.
• Exploration data would only be worth 10% of it's original value.

If the survey cache had a lifespan of only 10 days, imagine racing back to your last location (however many thousands of lightyears that may be) to reclaim that lost data!

Background

Yea, I just lost upwards of 300,000,000 credits in unclaimed exploration data. I'm not *too* bitter, but I would like to reclaim it.

A similar mechanic has previously been suggested for lost crew. Let's expand the concept if it is achievable.

 

[varonica]

Any ship with unclaimed exploration data should drop a survey cache when destroyed that is persistent for a set period of time.

This could provide 2 potential gameplay elements:

1. Players would have an opportunity to return to their last location and reclaim their lost data. This would give explorers an incentive to return to their far flung corner of the galaxy and pickup where they left off.
2. Other players would have the opportunity to 'steal' someone else's exploration data and claim it for themselves.

To prevent this mechanic from creating a credit exchange black market, stolen data caches would have some restrictions:

• Their exploration data can only be claimed at low security/black market stations, or insterstellar factors.
• Exploration data would only be worth 10% of it's original value.

If the survey cache had a lifespan of only 10 days, imagine racing back to your last location (however many thousands of lightyears that may be) to reclaim that lost data!

Background

Yea, I just lost upwards of 300,000,000 credits in unclaimed exploration data. I'm not *too* bitter, but I would like to reclaim it.

A similar mechanic has previously been suggested for lost crew. Let's expand the concept if it is achievable.

So this has been discussed before, if another player finds your data cache do they get "first Discovery" and "first Mapped" tags? Does the data they turn in contribute to their Exploration rank. If a player destroys you just before you get to the station do they get to immediately grab your data cache and turn it in, thus turning every returning explorer into a prime target, even 10% of 300m is a lot for some people and I expect to have close to a billion when I finally cash in!

I think there is some value to having a data cache stay behind for recovery by the player, but options need to be carefully thought out, any option that turns explorers into a prime target for attackers should not be implemented, any option that gives another player first discover/mapped tags without actually visiting the system etc should also be out of the question, if the data is collected by another player the attribution of these tags should remain with the player who lost the cache. I can probably think of other things that would cause issues with explorers so it would need to be a very careful implementation.

 

[Lestat]

Any ship with unclaimed exploration data should drop a survey cache when destroyed that is persistent for a set period of time.

This could provide 2 potential gameplay elements:



Players would have an opportunity to return to their last location and reclaim their lost data. This would give explorers an incentive to return to their far flung corner of the galaxy and pickup where they left off.

Well Like Dying while bounty hunting or losing 700+ plus cargo. Its risk and reward. With Exploration being the easiest to earn credits. It very hard to really lose your ship unless you are intoxicated either by drugs or Alcohol or walking away from the game while it still playing. You don't deserve to get your Exploration Data back Just like playing stupid with Bounty hunting or Cargo run. With so many new stations popping up Deep plus the Range of a ship increasing. It not needed.

Other players would have the opportunity to 'steal' someone else's exploration data and claim it for themselves.


To prevent this mechanic from creating a credit exchange black market, stolen data caches would have some restrictions:

• Their exploration data can only be claimed at low security/black market stations, or insterstellar factors.
• Exploration data would only be worth 10% of it's original value.

If the survey cache had a lifespan of only 10 days, imagine racing back to your last location (however many thousands of lightyears that may be) to reclaim that lost data!

Background

Yea, I just lost upwards of 300,000,000 credits in unclaimed exploration data. I'm not *too* bitter, but I would like to reclaim it.

A similar mechanic has previously been suggested for lost crew. Let's expand the concept if it is achievable.

Ok 300,000,000. That would be 30,000,000. I could see Gold sellers using as a way to sell credit easy. Using a few good Third party tools Bots and such it could be a really easy money maker.

Now players like me who has 3 accounts. I could see someone going hum I have all this data and have all this money in the world on my exploration account but wait If I move my Alt Account in the area and destroy my Exploration ship for 10%. Its easy money.

Do you ever wonder why Player Pirates credit is caped? It because people use it for their own gain.

 

[Para Handy]

The idea has been posited a number of times and my opinion has always been against the idea.

1. The element of risk for the explorer should be real.

2. Let's not provide PK-types with rewards for their easy kills.

 

[Nadreck]

As I said on a previous thread, Universal Cartographics data is supposed to be unhackable. It should not be possible to steal discoveries. However, that shouldn't rule out a deal where the person handing it in gets paid a "recovery fee" while the original discoverer gets credited with the rest (maybe 50/50 split).

Actual piracy could be discouraged by encrypting and stealthing the cache so that it cannot be recovered by anyone except the owner for one week, before the transponder switches to "general broadcast".

The same could be done for copilot escape pods.

 

[nanite2000]

So this has been discussed before, if another player finds your data cache do they get "first Discovery" and "first Mapped" tags? Does the data they turn in contribute to their Exploration rank. If a player destroys you just before you get to the station do they get to immediately grab your data cache and turn it in, thus turning every returning explorer into a prime target, even 10% of 300m is a lot for some people and I expect to have close to a billion when I finally cash in!

All good points.

They key thing here would be data ownership.

Only the person who owned the original data (i.e. actually visited the system) would be eligible for the 'first discovery' and 'first mapped' tags.

Money is so easy to come by in the game these days, I don't think it would be a real gold mining opportunity. But just in case, pirated caches could just have a capped max value, similar to bounties.

As for targeting explorers - that happens right now, with DW2. I'm not sure this would make much difference to that.

I think there is some value to having a data cache stay behind for recovery by the player, but options need to be carefully thought out, any option that turns explorers into a prime target for attackers should not be implemented, any option that gives another player first discover/mapped tags without actually visiting the system etc should also be out of the question, if the data is collected by another player the attribution of these tags should remain with the player who lost the cache. I can probably think of other things that would cause issues with explorers so it would need to be a very careful implementation.

Agreed!

Just curious - were the previous discussions around this idea all in a single thread? Or were you just talking generally? If there's a single thread I could read through, can you post a link to it? I'd hate to repeat old arguments.

 

[nanite2000]

As I said on a previous thread, Universal Cartographics data is supposed to be unhackable. It should not be possible to steal discoveries. However, that shouldn't rule out a deal where the person handing it in gets paid a "recovery fee" while the original discoverer gets credited with the rest (maybe 50/50 split).

Actual piracy could be discouraged by encrypting and stealthing the cache so that it cannot be recovered by anyone except the owner for one week, before the transponder switches to "general broadcast".

The same could be done for copilot escape pods.

I like these ideas.

+1

 

[varonica]

All good points.

They key thing here would be data ownership.

Only the person who owned the original data (i.e. actually visited the system) would be eligible for the 'first discovery' and 'first mapped' tags.

Money is so easy to come by in the game these days, I don't think it would be a real gold mining opportunity. But just in case, pirated caches could just have a capped max value, similar to bounties.

As for targeting explorers - that happens right now, with DW2. I'm not sure this would make much difference to that.



Agreed!

Just curious - were the previous discussions around this idea all in a single thread? Or were you just talking generally? If there's a single thread I could read through, can you post a link to it? I'd hate to repeat old arguments.

Various threads over about two years, and yes most ideas on the subject have been discussed, but it's not a subject brought up as often as, say, auto-pilots

It usually crops up again after an explorer loses a particularly large amount of data, so every now and then.

 

[Misty_Dark]

This with dropping data and others to collect it is problematic.


I do think that we should be able to recover our data, regardless if it is exploration, bounties, etc. if you had a NPC pilot, or cargo, these would drop here too. Cargo should some % due to the ship destruction, and if pirate killed you, they would pick up the parts of the cargo depending on how much the can carry. So a pirate eagle steal very little, but a Pirate Anaconda/Corvette, could potentially pick all cargo that you dropped.



This will not make it easy mode, and you would have to go back and collect it. in other words, go back and search for your encrypted beacon signal, and then you have to go there and look for the wreck, canisters etc. This mechanism could be a new addition to FSS, that requires skills or time to locate your beacon...as I said, no easy mode. Player incentive is how much do you want to get it back, and is it worth the effort...




Now to the point of should other players be able to pickup/collect these things. I do not think they should, and there are several reason as to why I believe this.

1. We know players already target other players just because they are players. We do not need to give them more "incentives" for this kind of gameplay. These player would still attack other players regardless of this or not.
2. Credit transfers, if I could drop 1 billion of "exploration" data for you to pick up, we can be sure there would incentives to sell this service outside the game for real money, also known as a gold sellers.




So basically, this mechanism should neither deter or encourage player vs player interaction.

• It should not be mode dependant.
• It is up to the player to decide if they want to go and get their "stuff"
• This should be invisible for other players in the same instance, regardless if they are in the same wing or not, friends or not.
• There would be no real limit to how many of these "missions" you can have. You cannot delete them, but you should be able to hide them.
• These should all decay over time. Decay means weaker signals, and that less "stuff" can be recovered.
• Distance from where you re-spawn sets the time limit for recovery. Call this that an explorer had extra protected data core or something for being out exploring, OR in the bubble some pirates come across you data core and simple used it as a target practice.

 

[nanite2000]

It usually crops up again after an explorer loses a particularly large amount of data, so every now and then.

Hah! Guilty as charged.

Exploration is often long and lonely. It's heartbreaking when you lose weeks (or even months) of in-game progress. All that time, wasted.

 

[WesULVD]

I like the idea except the stealing part.

Everyone should should be able to pick up the cahce but when turned in both money and tags should go to the person that scanned it all. Maybe there could be a small finders fee or something.

But the idea would be that a fellow explorer finds the "crash site" of a fallen explorer and provides his "legacy"

For the original explorer, he should get notified i anyone has picked up his cache. Can you imagine rushing back to Beagle point to find out anyone else has picked it up. It could be set up that the cache emits a pulse with a timer in the message panel.

 

[Hell Razor5543]

How about this as a suggestion?

You can buy (in Outfitting) a secure storage system (that interfaces with the on-board computer systems, and does not take up a storage slot). When you purchase it you set up a password (the more secure the better). You will not need to enter this password every time you board this vessel (but you will need the password to set up a new storage module, and to communicate with the 'Black Box' from a destroyed vessel). As you explore a backup of your exploration data is sent to this storage system.

If you are attacked your attacker will have to hack this system to get the password. Only those Players who have the password will be able to recover the data (unless the power in the 'Black Box' fails). This is because the 'Black Box' component is somewhat elusive. As your vessel enters its' death throes (be it through attack or just bad flying (got too close to a Star in a damaged ship)) the secure storage system will eject the 'Black Box' using a micro FTL drive. This will only have a range of a couple of light seconds. However, when the 'Black Box' drops back into normal space it will then enter a 'stealth' mode (it will have enough power to remain in 'stealth' mode for a month). While it is in 'stealth' mode only another secure storage module with the same password can locate the 'Black Box' allowing the vessel to lock onto it and scoop it up (scooping it up will automatically upload the data to the secure storage module on the scooping vessel).

If the 'Black Box' is not recovered within a month there will not be enough power to remain in 'stealth' mode, so it will now be possible to find it as a normal USS point. This means that anybody could now find it.

When the Player (whose 'Black Box' got ejected) sees the REBUY screen it will also show them which system they were in when they died, so they can, should they choose to do so, go straight back there to recover their 'Black Box' with the data.

 

[Old Duck]

I suggested this myself once. Unfortunately, suggestions in this sub-forum are like tears in the rain, lost forever.

 

[Brrokk]

I see no need to give extra rewards to gankers blowing up explorers. It's not as if they risk anything to do it.

 

[MK Regular]

Generally I like the idea of a dropable black box filled with all of your exploration data, however the main caveat I have is that the player SHOULD have the opportunity to get the black box before would-be data pirates. The week/month long black box "stealth mode" proposed earlier in the thread would probably suffice.

Also mentioned in the thread was a "finder's fee" for the player that turns in someone else's black box (proposed at 25%) with the remainder of the proceeds and all of the first discovered/mapped tags going to the original player. I like this idea, although I would propose that the % fee should be based on the distance of the black box's original location to the nearest station:

• 10000Ly would give a fee of ~20%
• 1000Ly would give a fee of ~10%
• 100Ly would give a fee of ~5%
• 10Ly would give a fee of ~2%
• Black boxes in a system with a station would give up to ~1% depending on distance

this would actively discourage ganking returning explorers close to a station by severely reducing the payout from doing so. This could potentially be a valid alternative to the "stealth mode", since although the player may not get the opportunity to sell the data themselves, they're still guaranteed to get at least 60-70% of the value of the data and all of the first discovered/mapped tags.

As for using this mechanic for NPC crew, yeah I'm all for that too.