Ships Diamondback - Jump Range Calculations

I was running some numbers though ED Shipyard to see what the possible weight to jump range ratios might be for the Diamondback. There are diminishing returns on the weight loss for any FSD and that was taken into account. Granted ED Shipyards numbers aren't precisely accurate, but they do give a good estimate for jump ranges.

What we know so far: from the images on the docking pad it appears that the Diamondback will be a "Small" class ship, and currently, no Small ships have an FSD larger than Class 4. There is a precedent for Small ships hitting above their weight class though, since the Vulture has Class 3 hardpoints... so it isn't impossible that the Diamondback could be hollowed out to sport a 20 Ton Class-A FSD drive. Given that possibility I have calculated two tables of weight ranges. One for Class 4 and one for Class 5. So all FD needs to do to ensure that the Diamondback isn't a disappointment to explorers looking for an upgrade (even to a "Small" ship) is to make sure that it can be stripped down to sufficient degree, by giving a low enough base weight.

Given all the extra armor so visually apparent on the Diamondback, my hope is that it is either quite compact and has a stock weight of around ~200 T with a class 4 FSD, or it weights as much as the Vulture and has a class 5 FSD.

CLASS 4 FSD
WEIGHTJUMP RANGE
25522.71
24523.64
23524.64
22525.74
21526.93
20528.25
19529.70
18531.33
17533.17
16535.29
15537.74
14540.62
13544.09

CLASS 5 FSD
WEIGHTJUMP RANGE
40530.41
39531.18
38531.99
37532.84
36533.74
35534.74
34535.74
33536.74
32537.74
31538.74
30539.74
29540.74
 
As I said, I predict class 4 FSD and 100 T mass.

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The formula for jump range was given out by a designer, and it is this:

Fuel cost = C * (Distance * Mass) ^ Power

Fuel cost is 5 T for A rank class 5, and 3 T for A rank class 4 FSD. C and Power are ship-specific constants.
 
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I don't see it having more than 35LY range in a totally stripped down setup. It's a cheap entry into exploring after all and will almost certainly not be better than the Asp.
 
As I said, I predict class 4 FSD and 100 T mass.
.

Looking at the landing pads again, I think you might be right about the low weight estimate. Jump range is independent of the fuel tank size, so that equation can't be solved for max jump range. There probably is a ship constant for jump range, but according ED Shipyard, it is very close to 1.

I don't see it having more than 35LY range in a totally stripped down setup. It's a cheap entry into exploring after all and will almost certainly not be better than the Asp.

That remains to be seen. If Puca is right and the DB gets a class 4 FSD @ around 100T, then it will have a VERY large jump range. It is unlikely to get a class 3 FSD, since it clearly larger than the Eagle which has a Class 3 FSD, and the Eagle is certainly not an "explorer" ship.

I think a more realistic estimate would be around 150T. Ok now am I getting exciting about the Diamondback realizing how small it is!!! I love a small ship.
 
I know you haven't been too keen on its looks either, at least compared to what you were expecting, and that's fair. I think it might please you a bit more with how it looks with its weapons deployed though, adding a bit more than a boxy cockpit to the fore area. Granted, that might not be as relevant for exploration, and I'm fairly certain people will still want the Vulture over the Diamondback for combat.

Edit: Now that I picture it more with the weapons deployed, the look of an AT-AT "head" kind of comes to mind. :cool:
 
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I wasn't happy with its looks because I thought it was much bigger, and the flat nose would be prominent. But once I realized how compact it is, the nose is actually quite narrow. Now, I really regret my previous criticisms and wish I could take them back. And yes, I can't wait to see it with the weapons deployed!
 
It has to at least sport a 45LY+ jump range lest FD lose all credibility insofar as ship design is concerned.

Why?

The Rattlesnake is marketed as a dedicated Explorer, fullstop. Now to date the Elite universe has not yet seen a dedicated explorer vessel. It accordingly stands to reason that it should far outperform all the current multirole ships out there that are used for exploration purposes (amongst others, the Asp and Anaconda).

How else are you going to explain that a dedicated explorer vessel's jump range is less than another ship that is not even touted as an explorer? Oh wait, I forgot about the 'stay silent' approach we saw with the bounty hunter fiasco.............. Oh well, not long to go now....time will weave a tantalising tale......
 
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Highly specialized exploration ship is probably something we aren't going to get before planetary landing expansion. I might be completely wrong of course, but I think that the truly dedicated explorer should have certain capabilities and traits which simply aren't needed right now.

Hint: see my concept of the "ultimate" exploration vessel in my signature.
 
It has to at least sport a 45LY+ jump range lest FD lose all credibility insofar as ship design is concerned.

Why?

The Rattlesnake is marketed as a dedicated Explorer, fullstop. Now to date the Elite universe has not yet seen a dedicated explorer vessel. It accordingly stands to reason that it should far outperform all the current multirole ships out there that are used for exploration purposes (amongst others, the Asp and Anaconda).
I would say the "Asp Explorer" is marketed as an Explorer. It happens to be pretty good in other roles too, for its size class, but I think it's hard to make a medium to large exploration ship which isn't to at least some extent multi-role (with fuel scoop, AFMs and scanners all being convertible to either cargo space or shields).

The Anaconda is ridiculously expensive (if you make your money from exploration, you'll be Elite before you can afford one) and still only outranges the Asp by a few light years in very specialist setups (that make it very much not a "multirole" ship any more).

Also, the Diamondback's a small ship. The Eagle is unquestionably a fighter ... the Cobra III outclasses it in most respects in combat. The T6 is definitely a freighter ... the Asp can carry more cargo when rigged for hauling, and almost as much in a more multirole config. Being outclassed by larger and more expensive ships is hardly unprecedented.
 
Looking at the landing pads again, I think you might be right about the low weight estimate. Jump range is independent of the fuel tank size, so that equation can't be solved for max jump range. There probably is a ship constant for jump range, but according ED Shipyard, it is very close to 1.

I think maybe I did not explain that equation. It is not about fuel tank _size_, it is about how much fuel you use per one jump. Say we have a class 5A FSD (we are in the asp). Then we will use at most 5 T fuel per 1 jump. Say our current mass (fuel + hull + modules) is 357.8 T -- the mass of this asp loadout:

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60g,,2-3I6u7_6u2C8S8I,522mpW2jw2UI

Then the max jump range is 34.88 ly. If I added 4 heat sink launchers and a 3D shield to this loadout for maximum safety:

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=60g,0Wg0Wg0Wg0Wg,2-3I6u7_6u2C8S8I,522mpV7Q42jw2UI

I get 360.3 T mass, and 34.18 ly jump range.

We have two equations and two unknowns:

5 = C * (34.18 * 360.3) ^ Power
5 = C * (34.88 * 357.8) ^ Power

which we can solve for C, and Power for the asp (exercise for the reader). The same goes for other ships. The reason the asp is penalized less than the adder in terms of jump range for each 1 T of mass added has to do with the Power coefficient differences of these two ships.
 
I didn't realize that the max fuel usage was a given! Interesting. Did you notice that C and Power are also given? And that they don't vary by ship, but instead only by FSD model? So instead of solving for C and P, we would actually be solving for Distance, given the Mass and a certain Model FSD. So we only really need one equation. That is pretty handy though, because now I don't need to reverse engineer jump ranges iteratively.
 
The actual formula given was a bit more complex, and is something like:

Fuel Cost = Coefficient * (Distance * (Mass / Optimised Mass))^Power

But we can collapse Coefficient and (1/Optimized Mass)^Power together into C, as for our purposes we don't need to worry about them separately. "Coefficient" is just there to get the left hand side to be a nice round number, "Power" has to do with diminishing returns on big jumps by ship, and "Optimized Mass" has an interpretation as what the FSD is rated to move through hyperspace internally, but again, we don't care! We just want to know how varying mass affects distance.

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Power varies by ship only, I believe. C is an artificial constant containing both "Coefficient" and "Optimized Mass" above. "Coefficient" depends only on ship, I think, "Optimized Mass" given its intepretation probably depends on what FSD you load, so C will change with FSD. What changes by FSD class and rating also is the left hand side (if you load a 5B FSD into your asp, you will no longer use 5 T per jump, but some smaller number that I don't remember offhand, since I always use A rated FSDs). Of course loading a 5B FSD will also change the total hull mass since 5B is heavier than 5A.

Since we can generate many more than just two equations by varying mass and jump range, we will get an overdetermined system. We can then check if the model I am proposing (or rather just repeating based on what a dev wrote) is sensible. In practice, explorers (and most other people) only care about the largest A class FSD the ship can hold, so we only need to worry about reverse engineering the formula for that case, for each ship.

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Incidentally, have you noticed how the error your FSD gives when you try to jump too far is "maximum fuel usage exceeeded" or something? The above formula is why that error has that odd-sounding phrasing. You exceeded the left hand side.
 
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Yeah, I was just crunching the numbers and it seemed off, so I looked it up and saw the basic formula on ED wiki. I tested the ED stats for power, Mult, optimal mass,and max fuel, and they are consistent with the wiki equation. On EDShipyard, the power variable doesn't vary by ship, and without doing a proper analysis, there is no reason to assume that the power variable is the most suspicious. Besides, if there was a significant power variance by ship, you would expect the error margin on the ship builder to be much larger. But really it's quite close, so perhaps there are other unknown variables?
 
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CLASS 4 FSD
WEIGHTJUMP RANGE
25522.71
24523.64
23524.64
22525.74
21526.93
20528.25
19529.70
18531.33
17533.17
16535.29
15537.74
14540.62
13544.09

CLASS 5 FSD
WEIGHTJUMP RANGE
40530.41
39531.18
38531.99
37532.84
36533.74
35534.74
34535.74
33536.74
32537.74
31538.74
30539.74
29540.74

You specify the class of the FSD, but what is it's rating? Rating of the drive makes all the difference.
 
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