Did Route Plotter try to strand me?

Bravo17

B
First time I've had this happen with the route plotter, but it seems that it tried to strand me way out in the Black with no fuel.

I plotted a route from Slehiae TX-L d7-4 to Flyiae Phroo UO-S b51-1 and it gave me this route, taken from the Journal.

9 jumps:
Iowropr GU-E a66-1 @ 33,035.6,-29.6,9,879.8 Y
Iowropr CZ-V a70-0 @ 33,061.0,-28.5,9,929.1 Y
Iowropr YD-N a75-0 @ 33,084.6,-27.4,9,981.3 Y
Iowropr VI-E a80-0 @ 33,108.0,-33.8,10,032.8 T
Iowropr UI-V a84-0 @ 33,138.7,-44.4,10,078.9 Y
Iowropr RN-M a89-1 @ 33,168.3,-43.2,10,127.0 Y
Iowropr NS-D a94-1 @ 33,191.0,-42.7,10,179.3 Y
Iowropr XW-L c24-0 @ 33,209.6,-68.2,10,226.3 K
Flyiae Phroo UO-S b51-1 @ 33,219.3,-75.9,10,279.7 M

My jumps went as follows (again from Journal):
Jump to Iowropr GU-E a66-157.05 ly, Fuel 4.9t left 27.1t
Jump to Iowropr CZ-V a70-055.37 ly, Fuel 4.5t left 22.6t
Jump to Iowropr YD-N a75-057.28 ly, Fuel 4.8t left 17.9t
Jump to Iowropr VI-E a80-056.98 ly, Fuel 4.6t left 13.3t
Jump to Iowropr UI-V a84-056.42 ly, Fuel 4.4t left 8.9t
Jump to Iowropr RN-M a89-156.48 ly, Fuel 4.3t left 4.6t

At this point I think hmmm, but I'm not really worried since my carrier is waiting at the end of the jump sequence and can come back to rescue me if needed, so I take the plunge.

Jump to Iowropr NS-D a94-156.98 ly, Fuel 4.2t left 0.4t

At which point I don't have enough fuel to make the next jump in the plotted route, which is 56.7 ly ( I tried just to make sure in case something strange was going on). I did have enough fuel to make this jump to refuel, so the plotter could easily have sent me there, but it didn't. It looks like I am short by 4 tons or so, almost the full amount needed!

Jump to Iowropr HS-H d11-1113.76 ly, Fuel 0.1t left 0.3t


At first I thought that I had forgotten to fill up before leaving the carrier at the start of the sequence, but you can see from the first jump stats that I started with 4.9 + 27.1 = 32, a full tank. I had also refueled before plotting the route, so my mass didn't change - but if it had changed that much I doubt I would have been able to make any of the jumps since they are all near max range.

I looked back over the route and to look for any evidence of a secondary star that I could have used to refuel from, but couldn't see one in any of the systems.

During my first trip out to Sag A I had been concerned that the plotter might plot me to a destination star that wasn't scoopable without enough fuel that I could get stranded at, but I hadn't considered that it might strand me in the middle of a route!

My ship build: https://edsy.org/#/L=Gg5f1IAk0H4C0S...pF05UX6932jwmV3ME8m_W00nFWEBa0nGY37q,,BR_D24A

Can anyone see something that I have missed to explain what happened?
 

Erei

Erei
Some area of space are full of non refuelling star. Either it's a young or old area of space or whatever. Maybe that was the issue ? Happened to me once. I was coming back from explo and nearly fell asleep doing the hundred jump dance. Anyway, at some point I had a "can't jump" error. As it happened, I had a string of brown dwarf. Thankfully, there was a star nearby I could refuel.

Not today Fuel Rats ! Not today !

Hey maybe, it's a conspiracy from the Fuel Rats ?
 

Bravo17

B
Erei said:
Anyway, at some point I had a "can't jump" error. As it happened, I had a string of brown dwarf. Thankfully, there was a star nearby I could refuel.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the same issue, the plotter could have routed you via that star instead - its not like there wasn't one to go via.
 

Riverside

Riverside
I had this the other day, normally the route plotter is very good but it happened as I was passing through the region of non-scoopable stars at around -25 to -45 throughout the galaxy.

You appear to be similarly close to this region, go up or down 100ly or so & you should be okay, or try using a filter to use only scoopable stars for a bit.
 

Bravo17

B
If there are no stars then it should warn you that you can't make the trip, if there actually are stars that you can scoop from then it should route you via them so you don't get stranded.

It usually manages to keep track of how far you can go before needing to scoop and plots a dashed line after that point, but it looks like in these cases something is going wrong.

In my case the next (unreachable) star was scoopable, I wonder if it sees that the next star is scoopable and says OK, but doesn't take account of the fact that you actually need to be able to get there to scoop from it.

I don't suppose you can remember if this was the same when it happened to you?
 

Riverside

Riverside
Bravo17 said:
If there are no stars then it should warn you that you can't make the trip, if there actually are stars that you can scoop from then it should route you via them so you don't get stranded.

It usually manages to keep track of how far you can go before needing to scoop and plots a dashed line after that point, but it looks like in these cases something is going wrong.

In my case the next (unreachable) star was scoopable, I wonder if it sees that the next star is scoopable and says OK, but doesn't take account of the fact that you actually need to be able to get there to scoop from it.

I don't suppose you can remember if this was the same when it happened to you?
Click to expand...

I always keep the tank topped up unless I have good reason not to.

I was in an iEagle that needs to scoop every other jump & in that ship I tend to pay more attention to the star class I am jumping into because if I get one non-scoopable the next needs to be scoopable. I was also aware that I was close to the doldrums too (the layer of non-scoopable stars).

What it did was show the last scoopable star as the current system and a solid line for the next two (non scoopable) jumps.

It isn't perfect & doesn't account for every eventuality. Seems to me you would have been fine if you had topped off the tanks at every opportunity?
 

Northpin

Northpin
Bravo17 said:
If there are no stars then it should warn you that you can't make the trip,
Click to expand...

And it doesn't?
Watch the plotted route from start to finish - when the line gets dotted, you are out of fuel..
Watch for the dotted line and for markings along the route named "Fuel Star" - no Fuel Star markings along the route? That's a strong warning signal.

Not at last, if you really dont want to get stranded, set the plotter to use only scoopable stars - else the plotter will fulfil its role by plotting the route using whatever star it has at its disposal, leaving the fuel for commander to be concerned with
 

Bravo17

B
Riverside said:
It isn't perfect & doesn't account for every eventuality. Seems to me you would have been fine if you had topped off the tanks at every opportunity?
Click to expand...
If you look at my route you will see that there was no opportunity, all the stars that it routed me to up until then were non-scoopable,and even when it had the option to route me to one, it didn't.
 

Bravo17

B
Northpin said:
And it doesn't?
Watch the plotted route from start to finish - when the line gets dotted, you are out of fuel..
Watch for the dotted line and for markings along the route named "Fuel Star" - no Fuel Star markings along the route? That's a strong warning signal
Click to expand...

The thing is that it COULD have routed me via a scoopable star to fill up, but it CHOSE not to and left me in a situation where I could have easily been stranded. I wasn't aware that it would do this, and wondered if I had done something wrong that I didn't know about. I now know to pay more attention to the "Fuel Star" sign and exactly where it appears on my route, previously I had just made sure that it was there and didn't notice that it was actually at the end of a dashed line.

This is fine for a fairly short route where you would only need to scoop once, but if you are plotting a longer route that will require multiple tank fulls of fuel the this doesn't work doing it just at the start of the sequence, you need to do it each time you fill up. I just think that the route plotter should tell you if it is going to run you out of fuel, since it manages to keep track of fuel usage anyway.
 

Riverside

Riverside
Bravo17 said:
If you look at my route you will see that there was no opportunity, all the stars that it routed me to up until then were non-scoopable,and even when it had the option to route me to one, it didn't.
Click to expand...

You are surrounded by scoopable stars, you could go off-route for one jump if you get nervous :)

The Route plotter is very good, it takes all sorts of factors into account but it isn't perfect, and just like the docking computer one should never just blindly trust it.

I think what you have discovered (similarly to me the ither day in my iEagle) is not really a bug but simply a limitation of the algorithm.

Try this:

Use your star class filter on the galaxy map, select only non-scoopables (everything below M class) and enable the grid in the galaxy map settings.
At about -30 on the vertical scale you will see a galaxy-wide layer around 20ly thick of non-scoopable stars. Switch the filter to should only scoopables (M & above only) and you will see that same layer is now much more thinly populated than the regions above & below.

Don't travel horizontally in that layer (unless you want to of course), fly above or below it.
 

varonica

varonica
Bravo17 said:
If there are no stars then it should warn you that you can't make the trip, if there actually are stars that you can scoop from then it should route you via them so you don't get stranded.
Click to expand...

It lets the player decide what sort of stars to route through, I must say I would be immensely annoyed if the route plotter made those decisions for me because it may skip stars that I specifically want to route through, you can set what stars the route plotter will route through and that's what the route plotter will do, if you select all stars that's what the route plotter will do, as simple as that.
 

Northpin

Northpin
Bravo17 said:
The thing is that it COULD have routed me via a scoopable star to fill up, but it CHOSE not to and left me in a situation where I could have easily been stranded
Click to expand...

No, it wont do that unless you specifically ask for it by forcing the plotter to use only scoopable stars.
If you dont do that, the plotter will plot a route as directly possible using all available stars - it's not its responsibility to refuel your ship or to make sure your ship makes it to destination, however the plotted route will offer indications regarding fuel and fuel stars along the route so you may act accordingly.

varonica said:
It lets the player decide what sort of stars to route through, I must say I would be immensely annoyed if the route plotter made those decisions for me because it may skip stars that I specifically want to route through, you can set what stars the route plotter will route through and that's what the route plotter will do, if you select all stars that's what the route plotter will do, as simple as that.
Click to expand...

Precisely this 👆
when i plot a route i expect it to plot a route, instead of skipping stars or taking detours, and let me worry about fuel.
Maybe the star i want to reach is non-scoopable, but that's where i want to go. Maybe i have a carrier there or maybe i may intend to use jumponium for the next jump, etc.
 

varonica

varonica
Northpin said:
Maybe i have a carrier there or maybe i may intend to use jumponium for the next jump, etc.
Click to expand...

I will often plot a long route and use the plotted route to select targets for my carrier to jump to, I can dock there, sell the data for the last 500ly, refuel carrier if needed and etc. I don't take note of the star type I have selected for the carrier, it's just distance based, allowing the route plotter to just change routes mid travel because reasons means I may miss the carrier altogether and not have that opportunity. We all play different ways, the current setup has enough warning and guides built in to take care of fuel problem.

For instance there you are plotting a route in the galaxy map and after you have plotted the route the symbol for the next available fuel star is on the system you are currently in, this tells you there are no scoopable stars within your fuel range on your currently plotted route, I mean it actually tells you when you plot it!

Bravo17 said:
During my first trip out to Sag A I had been concerned that the plotter might plot me to a destination star that wasn't scoopable without enough fuel that I could get stranded at, but I hadn't considered that it might strand me in the middle of a route!
Click to expand...

See above, it told you when you plotted the route there weren't any scoopable stars in the range of your fuel tank.
 

gooddoc

gooddoc
Many times, while out in the black, I'v gone off from the Route Plotter's route to go to a scoopable Star.
In fact on my current venture to Xibalba, I de-selected 3 types of non-scoopables for a while, because I was going through a Region containing far too many & my 'Conda was running low on fuel, time after time.

In all my 7+ years of flying Iv NEVER run out of fuel........that's because:-

1. I ALWAYS scoop at EVERY available jump at a Scoopable Star.........unless I'm deliberately looking to extend the jump range, ie when in a less dense section of the Galaxy....in which case 2. is EVEN more important.

2. Continually looking & noting how much fuel is in my tanks when hitting non-scoopables AND revisiting the Galaxy Map when/if my tank reaches 25% capacity, to make sure I can get to a scoopable.

However the issue is irrelevent as the OP noted, like I do these days, a Carrier is in tow, which btw also keep filled to at least 95% capacity whenever my Ship returns to it :)

The route plotter must be allowed to plot, we would never be able allowed to plot more than 7 or 8 jumps ahead, if the plotter was designed with 'fuel in tank' in mind.
As Northpin points out, that's what the dotted line to your destination is for in the Galaxy Map.
 
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Factabulous

Factabulous
Northpin said:
when i plot a route i expect it to plot a route, instead of skipping stars or taking detours, and let me worry about fuel.
Click to expand...
Yup - the game should expect at least a minimal level of attention from the player. Player is supposed to be in charge, not the game.

Having said that I do sometime drift off and find I can't make the next jump, but with 'modern' jump ranges there has always been fuel within range (I pay more attention when the nav panel empties :) ). I just get on with it rather than expecting the game to hold my hand even more that it already does.
 

varonica

varonica
Factabulous said:
Having said that I do sometime drift off and find I can't make the next jump, but with 'modern' jump ranges there has always been fuel within range (I pay more attention when the nav panel empties :) ). I just get on with it rather than expecting the game to hold my hand even more that it already does.
Click to expand...

Even if you have only left yourself with a fuel for a few LY jump and nearest fuel star is out of reach it's suprising how far you can actually jump using a premium jumponium boost, always have plenty of jumponium. There are many option for getting out of trouble, including of course fleet carriers, but not all players have one or take them exploring if they do have them, knowing your options is important.
 
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