Differences between security levels Lawless and Anarchy?

[LeKeno]

Hi,

I'm trying to understand what difference, if any, there is between a system with "Lawless security level" and "Anarchy security level".
Also, what matters for crime rules: the security level or the type of government?

The player journal says that the current CG is controlled by an Anarchy (government) and has a "Lawless" security level.
I've seen Anarchy systems with an "Anarchy" security level.

Is there any difference in terms of crime laws for each of these?

 

[Chris Simon]

I think you're mixing up two different things - government type and security level. Anarchy is a government type and it's lawless, meaning that if you commit a crime, you won't get wanted.
Other government types are lawful, but has different levels of security, low to high, which basically suggest the reaction time of police forces, when you commit a crime or someone attacks you.

 

[Sapyx]

As far as I am aware, "Security level" only comes in three flavours: Low, Medium and High.

In Anarchy systems, you will see "Lawless" at the bottom left of your main screen if you have a ship targetted. This indicates that you are in an Anarchy-controlled area of space, where there are no rules. Nobody is Wanted in an Anarchy, and nobody is Clean, either. It's a free-for-all, anything-goes zone, where shooting at "innocent" people incurs no penalty, and no police response because there are no police.

 

[LeKeno]

From eddb (and seeing my own player journal), Security Level can be High / Medium / Low / Lawless / Anarchy.
Among the known systems, there are:

• 43 systems with a Lawless security level (they all have an Anarchy government).
• 1085 systems with an Anarchy security level:
  • 1047 Anarchy government
  • 7 Corporate government
  • 3 Cooperatives
  • 1 Patronage
  • 1 Prison Colony
  • Remaining is unknown...

So, I guess I could visit one of the non Anarchy system with an Anarchy security level and see what this all means

 

[Serin Vickers]

What he means is this:

When you select Anarchy you see either anarchy goverment systems or systems with 0 population and as such no stations, factions and no police/security forces.
When you select lawless you only see very few systems and those are also always anarchy goverments. How they differ from normal anarchy goverments is not clear to me either but the filter does distinguish so there must be a reason.

 

[smiths121]

Edit: This is me reading eddb wrong....
I think I can explain one of the anarchy corporates. If you look at the Diamond Frogs on eddb, their home system 63 G. Capricorni is listed as Independent Corporate, even though DF control the sysmtem.

Never actually checked it in game, assume it would correctly say "Independent Anarchy", or one of the DF players would complain.

My understanding is the same as the others in the thread, anything else I put down to eddb being wrong.

Simon

 

[kofeyh]

I think you're mixing up two different things - government type and security level.

Indeed. This is exampled when you see system security flying around in an 'Anarchy' system; just because there are a bunch of rent-a-cops running around, doesn't indicate there's a central governance. The system security level, and the factional government types, are not interdependent. This isn't well understood and I possibly am not entirely 100% correct either, here. It's still a bit of an "exercise for the reader" to work out exactly how it all functions.

But my understanding, in short, is that Anarchy reflects a lack of official governance for a system; it also supposed to denote the relative security risk (if only the game actually used this more). System outposts and stations may be 'controlled' by a faction, but this doesn't mean there's a central governance, or controlling faction for the entire system.

It's not that it's Anarchy-controlled; because that's an oxymoron, it's because there is no central governance; it's just loose political structures cohabiting the same system. This is why a player faction can be a controlling faction (this is really only relevant for stations and outposts, as we known) and yet be in an Anarchy system. They aren't mutually exclusive.

Folks often confuse this and then expect crime to be policed in Anarchy, because there are Corporate or other factions and presume this should extend to global crime prosecution for the system; which ignores that factions typically won't give a crap unless you're smashing their reputation, and all that does is sends your reputation spiraling (which of course is leveraged by BGS players).

It's only when you're in a system that has true central governance (eg independent, or major power aligned) that the rule of law is technically policed. I say technically, because the AI is truely incapable of holding criminals to account unless in vast number, or at a station. So.. there's that. Anyhoo.

Frontier, though, does a really poor job of describing this to commanders; it's an endless source of confusion. :<

 

[Chris Simon]

Yes, it's not very well communicated to the player and depends more on experience rather than in-game description.

Like kofeyh says, the "Government type - Anarchy" means simply "lack of government" or maybe better said "The ruling faction is of no government type", which automatically means lawless.

 

[MadDogMurdock]

I thought Lawless was either unpopulated or no jurisdiction, whereas Anarchy was the jurisdiction of an Anarchy faction.

 

[Straker]

Speaking from an outside game perspective...To go even further, it's generally a mistake to think that Anarchy translates to 'threat'. Anarchy simply means a non hierarchical form of administration where power is not automatically justified but requires validation by the people, and can take place in many forms if at all. There's plenty of information available online.

 

[Aashenfox]

There's very little information online on this particular issue.

Uninhabited systems are ALL Anarchy, without exception. Anarchy implies exactly what it says (derived from the greek 'an' which when prefixing a word means negative and is the root of our word 'anti'. 'Archia', from ancient greek is governance, so anarchy is literally 'without governance').

'Lawless' (and there are only 43 systems according to EDDB) inhabited systems, are almost exclusively 'Independent', though there is 1 Empire and 1 Alliance system that are 'lawless'.

The commonality between these is anarchistic 'type' governments (sic: Rebels) that do not have 'Anarchy' as a model of government, they have a different model, such as 'Unfettered' or 'Rebels'. Which mean they literally allow 'anything goes' in their systems. As opposed to anarchic governments with a specific bent on deliberate anarchy (crime and anti-establishment).

It doesn't make a GREAT deal of sense, but the data is there on EDDB for people to draw their own conclusions. I think i actual terms of game mechanics, there isn't much difference, if any at all.

 

[LeKeno]

Thanks everyone.

I think I will settle for this: if security is lawless or anarchy then assume that crimes don't exists (against players).

 

[Chris Simon]

Thanks everyone.

I think I will settle for this: if security is lawless or anarchy then assume that crimes don't exists (against players).

Against anybody, really. You can kill anything you want and remain clean and likewise, anything can attack you and remain clean.
(The only exception are the station no-fire zones, of course)

 

[YinYin]

I've noticed anarchy systems do have security ships, just no security response. If they see you assaulting the controlling faction at a nav beacon for example, they will attack you.

 

[Jmanis]

The High/Medium/Low/Lawless/Anarchy stuff seems like some grandfathering over the course of time, where some haven't changed hands or certain BGS effects haven't taken place.

For example, when my faction (Imperial Dictatorship) takes over stations these days, the wording on the station changes to the usual imperial "Glory to the Emperor" stuff. But way, way back when I got an Imperial faction to take over a system which was *originally* controlled by an Anarchy faction. The wording on this station is *still* the Anarchy "Rise Up Now" style wording. This was also back when any system controlled by an Anarchy faction had a "Low" security rating.

spanner the works a bit more, according to EDDB there are five systems with Low security and Anarchy controlling governments.

I get the feeling the security settings are meant to work as follows:
- High, Medium, Low: Normal procedurally generated settings for any lawful faction/effects taking place
- Lawless: When under control of an Anarchy faction (overrides the high/medium/low setting)
- Anarchy: When there's 0 population and no factions

I think Lawless was only recently added. I remember beta before the most recent one, all unpopulated systems were "Low" security, but Anarchy meant it was controlled by an anachy government. Then that changed, and a few complaints spun around the place when every explorer was getting "Anarchy system" warnings on jump when out in the black.