PvP Disabling attackers stuff

[Zoltah-Talion]

My question is basically is it possible to knock out some/any of the gankers' favorite toys during the very earliest stages of PvP combat? And the best ways to do this if so.

I am thinking especially of that cute shield generator destroying missile mod (Grom?) which makes big ships like the Corvette and Cutter so vulnerable to those hateful little Vipers and Couriers. If a player was to deliberately target that (as soon as weapons come back online after interdiction) and deliberately try to disable it, can it be done? How?

Or would it be better to shoot for the Power Distributor?

Just to be clear, I am not terribly good at combat and would like to get better. Maybe I'd like to be more of a challenge, lol.

 

[Havvk]

Lemme tell you bud, Corvettes are stronger without shields MUAHAHAHA

 

[Morbad]

Reverberating cascade is a special effect that can be applied to mines and torpedoes that damages the shield generator on any hit (they don't need to be specifically targeted and even if they hit elsewhere, will still damage the shield gen). It's quite tricky to use these weapons well, especially as ships get smaller and faster. Grom's containment missile temporarily disables the FSD, without damaging it, and is something else entirely.

Feedback cascade, in addition to reducing the effectiveness of an SCB charge, damages the SCB module as well. However, since SCBs don't malfunction, this is a largely meaningless feature...by the time you've destroyed the SCB, all the charges have been used.

Flechette launchers will bypass shields entirely and do kinetic damage to modules in their area of effect. Ships with weak kinetic resistance, no MRPs, and soft modules can be severely damaged, often before the pilot realizes what's happening. However, they are also difficult to use and most combat vessels are tough enough to essentially ignore them.

Weapons that increase a target's thermal load can indirectly do damage through shields, but this is usually very inefficient, except against very hot running opponents. Anyone with a cool running ship who isn't frequently approaching temperature limits for some other reason will be effectively immune to them.

There isn't really any other way than these to knock out modules though shielding, so you'll have to knock out their shields before even attempting to target a specific module. The only combat vessel with shield likely to be quickly stripped are hybrid types where you'll have a relatively short window to launch attacks between shield collapse and restoration. If you can get and keep a lock, targeting externals with seekers, or internals with rails while at range, or anything with gimbaled weapons up close may be viable. However, effects like TLB and tactics like dumping sinks or engaging silent running to break sensor lock are all common enough to make quickly knocking out any module on any combat vessel highly uncertain.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

There isn't really any other way than these to knock out modules though shielding, so you'll have to knock out their shields before even attempting to target a specific module. The only combat vessel with shield likely to be quickly stripped are hybrid types where you'll have a relatively short window to launch attacks between shield collapse and restoration. If you can get and keep a lock, targeting externals with seekers, or internals with rails while at range, or anything with gimbaled weapons up close may be viable. However, effects like TLB and tactics like dumping sinks or engaging silent running to break sensor lock are all common enough to make quickly knocking out any module on any combat vessel highly uncertain.

Thanks for setting me right, and for your knowledge shared. I am occasionally interdicted by 'hull tank' vipers/couriers, the last time the attacker actually seemed to be running with no shields, (although I guess that might have been a mistake on his part.) I did alright for a minute or two, managing to blow up most of his ordnance with my PD, but he was desperately spamming pack hounds and one must have got through, then instantly no shields, (the second time the same guy has done this with me, lol.) So I low-waked, dropped out of SC, then high-waked.

I guess if the attackers shields are down there might be a chance to disable the weapons, right? As you say, no easy task though. Boy, I would enjoy disabling all the weapons, and the PP, whittling the hull down to 5%, then head off leaving them to float! Just a nice dream perhaps.

 

[Morbad]

Vipers are often shieldless because their shields are rather weak without stacked guardian boosters. HRPs can generally offer equivalent protection for the duration of a fight while removing the need to spend pips on SYS. Shieldless Couriers are an oddity though.

In this case, your attacker must have had mines, torpedoes, or flechettes, as well as other missiles.

Against small, shieldless vessels that lack TLB PAs, an emissive turret of some sort, plus seeker missiles of your own, can often let you cripple them relatively quickly, if they don't go fully evasive.

Explosive damage in general is good at disabling weapons of shieldless opponents, but it can be tricky to land dumbfires and keeping a seeker lock in the face of very manuverable foe who knows how to time sinks/silent running, or who has TLB PAs, is the tricky part.

 

[Arguendo]

I did alright for a minute or two, managing to blow up most of his ordnance with my PD, but he was desperately spamming pack hounds and one must have got through, then instantly no shields

PDs generally don't affect Packhounds, as there are just too many of them. If your shields went down, it sounds like he was firing torpedoes. Like Morbad said above, only Torpedoes and Mines can "insta-gib" your shield as they go direct for the shield generator with the Reverb experimental.
A not so uncommon tactic is to spam packhounds to mask a torpedo launch, which may be what you experienced.

I guess if the attackers shields are down there might be a chance to disable the weapons, right? As you say, no easy task though. Boy, I would enjoy disabling all the weapons, and the PP, whittling the hull down to 5%, then head off leaving them to float! Just a nice dream perhaps.

Disabling weapons is quite possible with seeker missiles or pack hounds. They do quite a bit of damage to external modules, ie. all your hardpoints. Getting to the PP however takes a bit more effort, and Railguns with the Superpen experimental is your best bet for that, and as a bonus it will also damage other modules on its way through the ship. You gotta be quite proficient to get there fast enough though, especially if the opponent has an armoured PP with a few MRPs on top. And they aren't left floating with a destroyed PP, they generally just go Poof! after a while.
If you wanna see them float you gotta take out their drives. That is quite doable on certain ships, like the Chieftain class. Their thrusters are exposed from all angles and can quite easily be targeted (mind, I didn't say easy to hit, just to target ).

 

[Monolith Preacher]

Further to Arguendo's statement, I've found in my admittedly rather limited PvP experience that targeting a module with engi'd packhounds can be fairly useful.

 

[dm06]

Heat sinks to disappear from their sensor, boost and jump away.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

Much obliged for the knowledge and insights shared!

I've done my share of running, I'm starting to want to dish some out as well as take it. I guess I'm not quite ready yet, but I'm giving thought to it. When I lose all shields that's usually when I will simply try to escape, and I'm getting better at that too.

 

[CMDR Cknarf]

If you're just trying to escape, the best thing you can do to ruin their fun is to:

-Have decent shields
-Know how to high wake

95% success rate.

If your attacker is in a Federal or Alliance medium, or most small ships, you can just spam them with seeker missiles or packhounds to break all of their weapons. Either that, or they'll fly away to avoid the missiles.

Any competent pilot is just going to avoid torpedoes and mines 9/10 times.

 

[AP Birdman]

My question is basically is it possible to knock out some/any of the gankers' favorite toys during the very earliest stages of PvP combat? And the best ways to do this if so.

I am thinking especially of that cute shield generator destroying missile mod (Grom?) which makes big ships like the Corvette and Cutter so vulnerable to those hateful little Vipers and Couriers. If a player was to deliberately target that (as soon as weapons come back online after interdiction) and deliberately try to disable it, can it be done? How?

Or would it be better to shoot for the Power Distributor?

Just to be clear, I am not terribly good at combat and would like to get better. Maybe I'd like to be more of a challenge, lol.

It's usually best if you fight the interdiction till you lose then sit completely still and go silent running. Griefers will think you're dead and leave you alone.
You should definitely try that next time.

 

[Havvk]

Don't listen to him, it's a trap

 

[Morbad]

When I lose all shields that's usually when I will simply try to escape, and I'm getting better at that too.

If you are losing shields through something other than accumulated damage to the shield, you should pay attention to the source. Also, no matter how strong your shields are, they don't provide comprehensive protection, or such attacks couldn't happen.

It's wise for every ship to carry extra hull and module protection, and if you have a surplus of shield strength, but a low integrity shield generator, using a stronger generator (or integrity increasing mods) is wise.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

It's usually best if you fight the interdiction till you lose then sit completely still and go silent running. Griefers will think you're dead and leave you alone.
You should definitely try that next time.

Heh, you're funny.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

If you're just trying to escape, the best thing you can do to ruin their fun is to:

-Have decent shields
-Know how to high wake

95% success rate....

...Any competent pilot is just going to avoid torpedoes and mines 9/10 times.

In fact escaping via Super Cruise is usually my standard response, and it usually works just fine. Although such attackers will usually try to disable the FS drive of course, but if you've got the shields to survive some hammering, it will come back on eventually. (The first time my attacker managed to pursue me through 2 hyperspace jumps taught me the benefits of low-waking first, then dropping out, then high-waking.)

As for the torpedo/mine thing... well I do like to think of myself as a competent pilot, but I'll admit freely I can't hope to match the combat skills of you PvP guys. I've never tried out torpedoes for myself, I heard they were really slow and that most of the time they would never hit. There's only been 3 occasions when I've been attacked like this that I've been hit with 'reverberating cascade' and lost all shielding. Perhaps it's happened sometimes and my PD got them. Could have been a mine I guess? I should really try these weapons out for myself and get to know them better.

Basically here I'm just trying to learn some of you guys tricks, and I wanted to learn how to level the playing field a bit. I appreciate the helpful responses, thanks to all you guys.

 

[cmdr Ramius007]

torpedoes work (more or less), if your victim not check loadout and if he dont have TLB plasma accelerator, its very good defensive weapon, cause if you miss you hi wake, and if you hit your attacker and his ship rely on shields for defence he usually hi wake ASAP, BUT torpedoes are skill based weapon, not some insta win button, you need good firing solution to give attacked ship very little time to dodge them.

 

[Arry]

Never won a PvP fight myself, however: With larger ships, I hit the drives/thrusters; then try and stay away from the pointy end. Then maybe take out the Power plants. Chaff, heat sinks are all useful of course.

To me, logically, even with PvP, if they can't control their own movements, then you can basically pick them to bits, as you wish. If they have packhounds, then attack the launchers. Just take away their movement control first and they can't even jump away.

 

[Crimson Kaim]

No, there is no way you can disable someone per click. You could use mines but that requires alot of skill and is barely suitable in larger ships. The best thing you can do to negate the weapon damage is have a good shield defense that can sustain a wing of 4 for atleast 30 seconds and then highwake.

Unfortunately there are no real AoE weapons or modules.

Also experience is the best medicine against gankers and wanna-be PvPers in meta FDLs. Try silent running if they don't have emissive. You will be surprised how bad people aim without aiming sights aka reticle.

 

[Treptower Park]

My question is basically is it possible to knock out some/any of the gankers' favorite toys during the very earliest stages of PvP combat? And the best ways to do this if so.

/snip

Just to be clear, I am not terribly good at combat and would like to get better. Maybe I'd like to be more of a challenge, lol.

OP, I see where you´re coming from. I started with the same motivation after being helplessly ganked a couple times.
Tried a couple builds and been stuck with this Viper build

Spoiler

https://coriolis.edcd.io/outfit/vip...oUwIYHMA28QgIwV3fEQA==&bn=Pop Goes The Weasel

Tl;Dr

The Viper is a tough little ship, tons of fun to fly and cheap enough to eat hundreds of rebuys while learning to PvP



Its basically a mine-laying PA hull tank, as the Viper seems to be more sturdy with hull rather than shields and you want to run a hull build with mines anyways since it can happen that you hit your own mines. The 1A shield still serves a couple purposes. Its back online after like 30 seconds or so. Still eats some alpha damage and prevents modules being blown out w/ missiles/packhounds from the start. Also CMDRs tend to get tunnelvisison when shields drop. This helps to lure even the more experienced ones into the minefield. I sometimes let my shields drop on purpose and boost right into the minefield.

Try using mines as offensive projectile weapons rather than flying backwards in a straight line and hoping for the the opponent to be dumb enough to just follow you. Try to discern their vector and boost into their line of flight, weaving a mine net around the areaof combat. You will still need to learn to fly evasive. That comes with time though. I´m still learning PAs so I have yet to destroy a CMDR. And thats not really my goal anyways. But I had 15 min fights with meta FDLs, Vettes, Chieftains. And you´d be surprised how fast people run when their shields drop and you land a couple PA TLB & Dispersal volleys.

If you´re fed up with not landing the PAs you can also try Hicap Oversized Seekers in the mediums. They do some scary damage to shield tanks with the generator rendered inoperable.

For practicing to fly I have another build with turreted beams (efficient thermal vent) in the smalls and PAs in the mediums. The beams act as a guiding thread to your opponent and if someone skimps on resistances and goes for raw MJ you´d be surprised how fast you can eat their shields since ToT is in the 80-90% range for the whole encounter once you get the hang of it. Also your ship will be too cold for missiles to lock. And I feel Chaff is rather useless against beams in the medium to close range.

I had tons of fun with these builds, learned to fly way better while being able to take more risks because of the low rebuy.
One downside though is that I started to develop the habit of flying rather suicidal sometimes since I´d rather spend 200k on rebuy than flying back to the station for repair and rearm :x

I had commanders apologizing for killing me and them hoping I dont have a to high rebuy. Most people enjoy a good fight and with these builds you can give it to them without risking too much. You´ll be making friends (I almost always GG and add them as friend) which also helps to see hotspots on the galaxy map.

Go, fly dangerously and have fun. And very soon you´ll be flying around without the constant fear and frustration of being chased down and blown up.

 

[Zoltah-Talion]

"The Viper is a tough little ship."
Um... *chuckle*.

Great post CMDR, thanks. I did fly a Viper for a short while when I was new to the game, but clearly never came close to realizing its capabilities. Having just got my 3 Es, (been an in-game ambition for a while,) I think it might be time for me to get back in the little ships and (at least try to) 'git gud', lol.