Do carbon planets exist in ED

[Sooden]

If carbon planets exist in ED I would expect to see compositions of Ice, Carbon and maybe metal planets, So not the Ice, Rock, Metal I've only seen. And Hydrocarbon and nitrate abundant atmospheres, with a lack of any oxygen based compounds.

I hear they are mostly likely to be near the galactic core.

Anyone seen anything like this?

 

[kpmop]

Huh, never heard of a carbon planet - interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_planet

No, not seen one, but then I've probably only come across 2 or 3 carbon stars on my travels... will have to keep an eye out now.

 

[Jackie Silver]

So not the Ice, Rock, Metal I've only seen.

As I understand it, "metal" is metals, "rock" is basically slang for "silicates" and "ice" is slang for "anything else" - I guess carbon gets lumped in with the silicates as a "rock", so a carbon planet would still appear as a mostly-rock, partly-metal in Elite. Or perhaps it's lumped with the ices. Either way the point is that the classifications used should be all-inclusive and don't mean rocks and ices as we'd normally understand them.

That said, there are planets which have odd compositions listed - either over or under 100%, sometimes by a long way that can't be accounted for by rounding errors - so who knows? It would be great to see more exotic world types out there, we could certainly use the variety!

 

[Ziljan]

First let me say, I am not a geologist, and organic chemistry was not my favorite subject. But here is what I do know. Our normal definition of rocks, metals, and ice are very earth centric and depend on "room temperature" behavior and appearance. But "room temperature" and pressure is very different on each planet surface. Ice crystals or minerals on one planet may be atmospheric vapor on another. So when we try to apply these mundane definitions to exotic places like hot carbon planets, they feel insufficient. For example, without sufficient oxygen, the definition of rock will be quite different since silica (which requires oxygen) won't exist in significant quantities and will instead be replaced by silicon carbide, graphite, etc which will have quite different properties than earth rock. And while on earth our volcanos spew molten rock, a carbon planet would spew diamonds, which may almost sound similarly exotic as an icy planet with cryo-vulcanism except that the surface is as hot as some stars.

So what can we know for sure in ED? All we get in the system map are a very basic atmospheric reading and possibly a chemical composition of any existing vulcanism. Those are clues, but they are not proof. Maybe the "rocky and icy" planets are a good candidate? Tbh, I haven't looked too closely at the stats for those rare dark brown terrestrial planets.

 

[Sooden]

... And while on earth our volcanos spew molten rock, a carbon planet would spew diamonds..

[woah] i want one.

I wish there was more detail on planets, maybe even braking down what types of ices or on a planet (like ice VII). what planets are made from interests me a great deal

at the moment i'm having to guess what going on based off the limited info, temperatures, gravity and pressures and my basic exoplanet knowledge.

 

[Sysmon]

So what can we know for sure in ED? All we get in the system map are a very basic atmospheric reading and possibly a chemical composition of any existing vulcanism. Those are clues, but they are not proof. Maybe the "rocky and icy" planets are a good candidate? Tbh, I haven't looked too closely at the stats for those rare dark brown terrestrial planets.

As a geologist, with a passing interest in astrogeology (is that even a term?) - an interest that has grown a bit since I started being involved with ED in ? 2013 - I can say that I don't recall seeing anything that could resemble a carbon planet in ED. I've seen brown planets, the dark chocolate looking ones. Those are generally metallic or metal-rich.

From the Wikipedia entry, the planets may be of any temperature as long as the star is carbon producing. Please note that the stars don't have to be actual carbon stars, they just need to be richer in carbon than they are in our neighbourhood. Stars near the galactic centre are therefore more likely to host carbon planets. They may be found around brown dwarfs even.

It might therefore be worth checking out icy planets, where the basement rock would be water ice in some chemical environments, hydrocarbons in others. We might be able to shower in diamonds from volcanoes on hot carbon planets, swim in oily pools of others. Maybe even sail the fullerene seas on some...

This gives me something to do on my current exploration trip. I'm meandering nowhere in particular and scanning everything in systems that suits my fancy. I'll start mapping out planet compositions by star type I think, including icy planets. Keeps me off the street.

S

 

[Sooden]

Just scanned a small planet around a brown dwarf, around a 27 mass back hole...
Maybe this is a candidate for a carbon world? (methane atmosphere)
composition is rock 90.9% but i don't know what ED is classing as rock.

Spoiler

 

[Sysmon]

Just scanned a small planet around a brown dwarf, around a 27 mass back hole...
Maybe this is a candidate for a carbon world? (methane atmosphere)
composition is rock 90.9% but i don't know what ED is classing as rock.

"Rock" might be understood as silicates, carbonates, etc. But yes, EDs definition is unclear. If the atmosphere composition could be used to define a planet as a carbon planet, Titan would be one. Alas it is not.

We can assume the volcanism is mantle-derived, if the rocky body can be said to have a defined core-mantle-crust structure. The chemistry suggests it does have a little metallic core surrounded by a mantle or very thick crust if you want.

The "iron magma" (whatever that is) implies an iron-rich rocky source, so 90% of your planet and likely the mantle. On Earth that might be tholeiitic magma which tends to be more iron-rich than the calc-alkaline counterparts and both are mantle-derived magmas.

Alternatively, the "iron magma" could be iron carbide, which is found in small amounts in meteorites. If that's the case, your planet should be metallic as there's 3 Fe to one C in iron carbide.

It's all very sci-fi, which is great! That's the game we are playing anyway.

S

 

[Ziljan]

From the Wikipedia entry, the planets may be of any temperature as long as the star is carbon producing. Please note that the stars don't have to be actual carbon stars, they just need to be richer in carbon than they are in our neighbourhood. Stars near the galactic centre are therefore more likely to host carbon planets. They may be found around brown dwarfs even.

It might therefore be worth checking out icy planets, where the basement rock would be water ice in some chemical environments, hydrocarbons in others. We might be able to shower in diamonds from volcanoes on hot carbon planets, swim in oily pools of others. Maybe even sail the fullerene seas on some...

This gives me something to do on my current exploration trip. I'm meandering nowhere in particular and scanning everything in systems that suits my fancy. I'll start mapping out planet compositions by star type I think, including icy planets. Keeps me off the street.

S

Some so-called carbon planets are actually the cores of dead stars, but I think the carbon planets we're discussing here are the ones formed from oxygen poor planetary disks. The chemistry of the associated star could be quite different since main sequence stars manufacture their own oxygen. So yes, they could be around any star.

Also, any water ice on the surface would indicate a ratio of O/C > 1 thus it would not technically be a "carbon planet". The bulk of the Oxygen in the system would likely be bound up with carbon thus preventing any water from forming on the surface. So if the planet is water-icy, it's probably not a carbon planet. But there is nothing saying that it couldn't be methane ice. Or some other frozen hydrocarbon.

This whole discussion is cementing my desire to study more about geology, organic chemistry, and planetary science.

 

[Sysmon]

Some so-called carbon planets are actually the cores of dead stars

The types of stellar remnants coming to my mind when talking dead stars are white dwarves, neutron stars and black holes. Those represent different degrees of matter degeneration, down to collapse into a point. Where does carbon core remnants fit in? The Si and C is generally blasted into the generated nebula, I thought. Would it be stars whose outer layers got ripped away when their binary (for example) went nova?

S

 

[Sooden]

hydrogen cyanide seems to be a marker for carbon rich planets, but not seen that in ED.
https://youtu.be/P0O5Mf4UJho?t=3m28s

 

[Virgil Kyle]

It's alive!

I seem to remember the addition of carbon planets to the game being announced in a newsletter waaay back when the game was launched (before, even, as in during Beta?), but I can't seem to remember which one I must admit, I found this thread whilst trying to look for it, hehe


I seem to remember finding an icy moon orbiting a gas giant not far from the bubble that was jet black upon visual inspection - Perhaps this is one of the fabled carbon planets? I know I took screenshots of it (and possibly its info screen, too) but alas, it's lost somewhere in my insanely-large collection of ED screenshots


Jeez, I'm not being the least bit helpful, am I? lol

 

[Gemai]

We could at least narrow down candidates based on the ingame info we get:

- The atmosphere should have limited or no oxygen, so it wouldn't be prevalent if it is one. Also a huge load of carbon should push for a chemical equilibrium with some carbon-induced molecules. So it either has no atmosphere or:
Methane / XXX-rich (aside of Carbondioxide) / Metallic Vapour

- The volcanism can't be based on oxygen. So unless it is Methane Magma which would be best (or hot oil rivers in general), the leftover candidates are Ammonia, Iron or None.

- Composition... Metals are obvious. Rocks mean mineral composities. Mostly done with oxygen, but other salts etc. can form without. So these can exist on all of them too. Ice are volatiles in astro-sciences. Thus Carbon falls under the ice category. If there is to be a carbon planet and it has NO atmosphere or heat cycle, it will form an ice-layer on the surface. Any planet without ice composition is NOT a carbon planet.

So any ice-planet that doesn't have "ice" (as in crunchy white hard water = oxygen) and has the right volcanism or atmosphere is a candidate for a carbon planet.

So go out and find them.

And yes, brown dwarfs tend to have some in theory.


Actually we barely know planets with Methane Magma, yet it is ingame. Those might be clear signs for Carbon Planets.
Those having non oxygen volcanism in EDO are only 46 of over 8000 registered bodies. Finding one is a near mystery.