Do I detect a tiny bit of doubt from Frontier about ED future?

[Obsidian Ant]

I'm probably reading too much into this, and debated making the post...but what the heck - I will only keep wondering.

So newsletter #29 mentions the future of Elite and the proposed expansions. However this is the first time (as far as I have seen) that Frontier make those expansions sound as though they are not a certainty...

We have regularly said that depending on the level of success of Elite: Dangerous we intend to continue expanding it with new content and new features.

This means that if we are as successful as we hope to be, you will still be benefiting from the fantastic early support you gave us for a long time to come.

It's obvious that Elite needs to be successful to have a long term future...but both these quotes - to me at least - sound as though Frontier have doubt about that future.

It is also possible that they are just covering their bases, and giving themselves room to backtrack.

Either way - and whatever the reason - it's the first time I have seen Frontier phrase the subject of expansions in such a cautionary manner.

 

[Hellhawk666]

My attention was immediately drawn to the words "depending on the level of success" in the newsletter. I don't recall ever having seen that caveat previously. I wonder why it was suddenly felt necessary?

 

[Erik Marcaigh]

Why should they promise something that may not be attainable?

We're getting a newly rebooted version of Elite. The whole space sim. Space, being the operative keyword.

People who suddenly want planetary landings have no idea how much more time, space, and detail that would cover. Call of Duty sells three new gameplay maps after a few months. That's just a small area. GTA takes years to get a huge city and the surrounding area built up. And people really think that flying to a planet's surface should be a smooth transition and feel like the immersion doesn't break?

You know, if FD does get planetary landings going, people are going to complain that there are only a few landing zones and they can't explore the entire planet, finding hidden veins of gold and lost, underground alien cities.

I hope FD succeeds way past all expectations, but there is a thing about biting off more than you can chew as well.

 

[technome]

I disagree.

Frontier have always been cautious describing their plans beyond the base game.

This is from the original kickstarter:

We intend to continue expanding the game both with new content and new features. A good example of this is planetary landings...

No change here. Keep the faith, people...

Peace out!

 

[fourty6to3]

My attention was immediately drawn to the words "depending on the level of success" in the newsletter. I don't recall ever having seen that caveat previously. I wonder why it was suddenly felt necessary?

This is the first time that I'm seeing that caveat as well.

In fact, I remember seeing someone ask David Braben "will the expansions be contingent on the success of ED" in the most recent Q & A. I believe DB mentioned the intention of expansions, but he didn't actually address whether or not it would be directly tied to sales numbers.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

People who suddenly want planetary landings have no idea how much more time, space, and detail that would cover.

No one "suddenly" wants planetary landings.

This has been requested since 1 day of the Kickstarter. We were also told - during the Kickstarter - by Frontier that planetary landings will come in an expansion.

This is the first time Frontier put a caveat on the proposed expansions. (They should but that caveat on the Life Time Expansion Pack sales page though, right?)

But yes - I do agree with your point on the amount of effort required to make the expansions. And that clearly Frontier can't make them if Elite doesn't earn then enough money!

Though certainly - the desire for expansions (planetary landings) certainly isn't new or sudden.

I disagree.

Frontier have always been cautious describing their plans beyond the base game.

This is from the original kickstarter:



No change here. Keep the faith, people...

Peace out!

I wouldn't call the word "intend" a caveat, unless it is also followed by the word "if".

 

[Praevarus]

The game will be great but I do have doubts about how well it will sell. There don't seem to be a whole lot of gamers with the patience and such that a game like this requires. I really hope I am wrong about that, though.

 

[technome]

Frontier have never promised anything beyond the base game.

They have always said something along the lines of "We intend..."

That statement of intent implies caveats based on economic viability. To assume otherwise would be unrealistic.

 

[Darren Grey]

Frontier have always been realistic with their language and their approach - it's one of the things I respect about them. They're not promising everything and the kitchen sink just to get your wallet. They want to make the game the best it can be, but they're taking it carefully and in stages and not making promises they can't be 100% sure of keeping.

 

[fourty6to3]

Frontier have always been realistic with their language and their approach - it's one of the things I respect about them. They're not promising everything and the kitchen sink just to get your wallet. They want to make the game the best it can be, but they're taking it carefully and in stages and not making promises they can't be 100% sure of keeping.

I just hope that they aren't telegraphing an excuse only to come out with some bad news at the last moment in order to suck up as much money as possible like another space-sim game I know.

 

[Erik Marcaigh]

I just hope that they aren't telegraphing an excuse only to come out with some bad news at the last moment in order to suck up as much money as possible like another space-sim game I know.

It appears to me (IMO) that there are two different business models in play here. Sure, they both are businesses, and businesses want and need to make money. But there's something about SC's money-grab that turns my stomach. And I'm an American businessman myself!

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Frontier have never promised anything beyond the base game.

They have always said something along the lines of "We intend..."

That statement of intent implies caveats based on economic viability. To assume otherwise would be unrealistic.

As a backer from the first days of Kickstarter I totally agree with what you are saying.

But - imagine this; a person who knows little to nothing about all the crowd funding comes along and finds Elite. They then order the game + expansion pass. The page says "We intend..."

"Well..." thinks this imaginary person, "...Frontier also 'intend' to release Alpha, Premium Beta, Beta, Gamma and the retail version of the game. I assume 'we intend' to release expansions also fits into that same line of 'intent'". And so they buy the expansion pass believing that Frontier "intend" to honour the release of the base Elite game, and they also "intend" to release the expansions. This person, quite rightly has no idea that "intend" means something quite different depending on whether it is applied to the main game, or the expansions.

I can see a lot of people thinking that way - and I couldn't fault them for doing so.

 

[Rhaedas]

In one of the recent interviews, at E3 I think, David discussed his thoughts on designing and implementing a game, and one of his points was in having focus, getting one thing right before moving on to the next. And they'll do that in increments, just like they've been doing the game so far, so they get things as right as they can be.

 

[fourty6to3]

It appears to me (IMO) that there are two different business models in play here. Sure, they both are businesses, and businesses want and need to make money. But there's something about SC's money-grab that turns my stomach. And I'm an American businessman myself!

As an American and former businessman, I agree

They are 110% full throttle on getting everyone's money, and it seems like every decision they make for the game has to be approved by the marketing department first.

 

[Tinman]

All they are saying is that if the game tanks completely they won't be able to do the expansions...just like any other game throughout history. Nothing new here.

However, considering what we have so far and the extremely positive response they have gotten from the press (and gamers of course) every time someone have tried it I just don't see that happening...not even close.

There will be expansions...lots of them!

BTW, comparing the development of ED with GTA or CoD isn't viable since they are built with completely different methods. Sure, making a couple of maps for CoD might take months, but if you would make a couple of "Neptune size maps" in Minecraft it would take seconds instead. This doesn't mean it's easy since there is still A LOT of code and assets that needs to be developed, but it is by no means impossible. What annoys me the most is that noone else have even tried doing it on this scale before...disregarding Frontier/FFE of course.

 

[Mazhurg]

I just hope that they aren't telegraphing an excuse only to come out with some bad news at the last moment in order to suck up as much money as possible like another space-sim game I know.

Their modus operande is quite different from that other game. On this level I would not worry.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

What annoys me the most is that noone else have even tried doing it on this scale before...disregarding Frontier/FFE of course.

This is what I can't understand. The technology has been around more or less since the beginning of gaming - yet no one (aside from Frontier) has taking up the challenge of making a game of such huge scope.

 

[Dr. Funkenstein]

I'm a bit concerned with the wording of it as well, it seems like they're saying:
"Here's your last chance to buy something that you might not receive."

Having said that, I'm certain that this game will sell by the bucket load when the gamma phase starts.
I think people are still put off by the perceived high price of beta access, I regularly see comments regarding this in twitch streams. A lot of people also don't realise that what they're seeing now is far from feature complete.

Once the standard beta starts there will be more youtube videos, magazine/gaming site articles and twitch streams, which all equate to even more exposure and more potential sales.

 

[dlannan]

Planetary landings were in Elite:Frontier????

What is going on - how is planetary landing NOT part of the base game? Elite:Frontier had it.. whats the big deal? People wont care if its vegetated or gaseous or rocky, just give them scope of grandure and discovery!!! Thats what made Elite!! This game so far for me, has been a horrible disappointment - sooo much like Eve. Its quite a pity that the base things that made the originals great are just not being focused on, and other "annoying" features have such large amount of development attention.

And, again I will congratulate the art team - the modelling, especially the new orbital station is awesome. Well done guys. I do hope the gameplay turns around then it might be a worthy successor to the originals.

 

[CaptainKremmen]

This, my friends, is a quintessentially British approach to large, challenging Things.

Refreshing, isn't it?


Some people are comparing/contrasting the approaches taken by Frontier and CIG for their respective Big Projects. That'll certainly keep you busy, as the differences are huge.