Do or die? Whut?

[Stavro Mueller]

There's a tendency to ask the forum folks if they think the next update is gonna answer all their dreams, or if it will be a disappointment.

That's ok, I guess. The other day, I kitted out an Asp and went to Robigo to take advantage of the lucrative missions there. But ultimately, I ended up just going back to my favourite place and flying my Vulture and killing people.

The point of that little anecdote is, I've found what is fun for me. I don't have to keep looking to the next thing. I get such a buzz off just the flying and shooting mechanic that that will always give me what I need. I'm not saying it's the same for everyone, of course it isn't - But one thing this game does right is the combat. It's a real skill-based game, and the restrictions they put in (like yaw speed and maximum speed) just add to it.

So I am already getting enough from the game. I have my gripes, like everyone, but this is the only game (since Quake) that gets me back time and again to just test my reflexes and have fun.

You have every right to discount this, because they do have to provide a game that suits everyone, and while I might have found something that will give me fun forever, maybe others are not yet so happy.

But I do take issue with the idea that we're hanging on a precipice of success or failure. The game is a success. Actually, a wild success. It's globally recognized and played. It gives all the old crowd (like me) who played the original and methadoned on BBC emulators for so long a real buzz - not just because it's still the same game, but because this game can be globally significant directly and not just through its influence. Oolite of course deserves a more than honourable mention too - but I'm not playing it any more.

I have issues with Eliteangerous. Everyone does. But anyone expecting a paradigm shift next version is (I think) just wrong. Tons of people seem to think that FD are fumbling along. They seem to think that, while the game is good, the issues they perceive (usually because of the other space games they know) are things that FD haven't gotten round to, not things that FD have considered long and hard and have thrown out. So I guess (and I'm extrapolating) that they think that the next update is when FD will come round to their way of thinking and 'fix it'.

There was huge resistance amongst the old guard to multiple ships and also to wings. They were implemented and are great. There's resistance to multi-crewed ships because that is the biggest difference to the original idea of a solo pilot against the universe. This resistance is good - it shows that there's a community who cares and only the best ideas are going to get through.

FD are not fumbling along. They are competent and seasoned and I think that they know exactly what they're doing and they're making the game they want to play.

Make your polls about if the next update is the death knell or the phoenix rising. It's balls. The game is doing fine.

 

[Marcus Machiavelli]

word up!

 

[Laste]

THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!
THE SKY IS FALLING!!!!!!
FRONTIER BETTER GET MY OBSCURE VISION FOR THIS GAME CORRECT OR I"M LEAVING.

WILL SOMEBODY THINK OF THE CHILDREN.


I think we should just keep playing along, and enjoy the ride.
Some people have a real over inflated sense of how much they are worth to frontier.

rep to you

 

[kofeyh]

Make your polls about if the next update is the death knell or the phoenix rising. It's balls. The game is doing fine.

There is an echo-chamber in effect for PVE, PVP and feature set. These are all things that can illicit highly emotive responses and the usual cacophony of responses. Which can be frequently distilled to "me too". People like to be agreed with. To belong to the crowd.

Frontier have a very tough job, namely: make a game that mostly works and mostly does what their customers want, most of the time.

This is actually a terribly hard thing. It's so hard entire game studios have gone under, when they get the formula wrong. Frontier are many things, and sometimes a bit reactive and over-compensate with changes; they are however developing a game that at this time, does manage to mostly work, doing mostly what people want, most of the time.

But there will always be a portion of the community for whom this isn't enough. It has to be perfect (even when they bold-face lie and say it doesn't). It must respond to specific need or it's balls and out come the forum polls. People then join the echo-chamber with me too, often to be seen to belong, as opposed to actually agreeing - until it becomes a cacophony of demand and the developer responds. Often the outcome is pants. It's pants because it's often a single 'hot take', that isn't well thought out and creates even more echo-chamber to have it removed.

The game is great. Could it be better? Of course. Frontier knows this. There future income is riding on knowing that. So I have pretty reasonable confidence at this point that they 'get' the general idea, and it really comes down to executing that vision. Sometimes I do wish that there was a little less gerrymandering going on to try and foist ideals on the entire community but this is a game that tends to create emotional debates.

tl;dr - sky isn't falling, it's not make or break anything; frontier should absolutely work towards having healthy community engagement and maybe just play a little more, complain a little less and have a good time.

 

[Stavro Mueller]

There is an echo-chamber in effect for PVE, PVP and feature set. These are all things that can illicit highly emotive responses and the usual cacophony of responses. Which can be frequently distilled to "me too". People like to be agreed with. To belong to the crowd.

Frontier have a very tough job, namely: make a game that mostly works and mostly does what their customers want, most of the time.

This is actually a terribly hard thing. It's so hard entire game studios have gone under, when they get the formula wrong. Frontier are many things, and sometimes a bit reactive and over-compensate with changes; they are however developing a game that at this time, does manage to mostly work, doing mostly what people want, most of the time.

But there will always be a portion of the community for whom this isn't enough. It has to be perfect (even when they bold-face lie and say it doesn't). It must respond to specific need or it's balls and out come the forum polls. People then join the echo-chamber with me too, often to be seen to belong, as opposed to actually agreeing - until it becomes a cacophony of demand and the developer responds. Often the outcome is pants. It's pants because it's often a single 'hot take', that isn't well thought out and creates even more echo-chamber to have it removed.

The game is great. Could it be better? Of course. Frontier knows this. There future income is riding on knowing that. So I have pretty reasonable confidence at this point that they 'get' the general idea, and it really comes down to executing that vision. Sometimes I do wish that there was a little less gerrymandering going on to try and foist ideals on the entire community but this is a game that tends to create emotional debates.

tl;dr - sky isn't falling, it's not make or break anything; frontier should absolutely work towards having healthy community engagement and maybe just play a little more, complain a little less and have a good time.

You've basically agreed with me, here, which of course I like. I'm not sure about your use of the term 'gerrymandering', which means redefining the districts that vote. We're not really subject to that kind of manipulation. I mean, pretending we are is really totally not okay, since 'gerrymandering' is one of the worst practises that can be employed in a democracy. And, as I said, we're really not subject to that kind of manipulation.

My OP was just really to demonstrate how crazy it is to assume that FD don't know what they're doing. As you know, they really do. The problem on these forums is people offering 'a better way to do it'. They aren't to blame, but it just bugs me the level of assumption that FD are jokers who don't know what they're doing. They really aren't. If they haven't done something you want, it's either because they aren't gonna do it (but they have considered it) or that it's not next on their list. Too many people have too many ideas. FD are gonna make the game they want to play and screw everyone else. And because the game is not gonna be all things to all people, it's gonna be a special game. It's gonna continue to be a special game. You don't make a game-changer by listening to the people who don't want the games to change.

 

[kofeyh]

I picked gerrymandering, because it's the closest I can come to where a debate has it's terms of references, and people's views constantly re-defined to fit an agenda; entire portions of the community are excluded based on their experience being irrelevant. In short, stacking the vote to cover groups whom have agreeable responses, rather than a broader more democratic debate. I should qualify that that is purely from a community perspective. Frontier certainly has it's moments, but doesn't ever seem to step over that sort of line.

Probably not the best option, but it is a quarter past three on a friday afternoon and pulling appropriate language choices isn't super high on my agenda.

PVP vs PVE is a classic example where the 'goal posts' are frequently moved (by both sides) in an attempt to reframe the debate; that's when it's not just outright judgemental garbage. The noise level is enough that it causes the developer to respond, but half the time they are responding to a moving target (which in of itself makes it look like they're not really interested).

But yes. Frontier stumble occasionally. However they do have some degree of plan and roadmap for this thing. It's probably not as well telegraphed as it could be, but the flip-side of that is it removes any real sense of surprise and discovery, post major updates.

I'm all for healthy engagement and that's a pretty good habit for developers, as the end product tends to be more aligned to the customer; which is typically a really good thing.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

They are competent and seasoned

Sage and onion? Mmmm..... I'll take a plate of Braben with a side order of Sandro to go!

 

[CMDR Argent Steel]

Preach, OP. This or something like it is what I think every time I read another childish sky is falling post.

 

[MickyG1982]

At a time when all (some) people seem to post is hate for ED (because they don't understand how an Elite game works). This was a very refreshing read.

Thank you OP.

 

[anikaiful]

Differing from all the typical doom-and-gloom and incessant whining that consitutes for majority of the forum, threads/OPs like this are a refreshing read

 

[CMDR_Vyse]

I posted in the "make or break" thread and I'm going to echo the same thing I said then. The whole "This next patch is make or break" sentiment is a cliche that I hear for every single MMO ever made and quite frankly it's tiresome.