Do Thargoids not interact with NPCs?

[ElectricZ]

So I flew out to Pleiades to scope out the new community goals and did a little of the search and rescue one. In between jumping in and out of the persistent destroyed fed capital ship distress signal POI, I read those little words that every CMDR loves to see on the comm panel:

"The rumor was right... Good job I found you first!"

OK so Spiff in his Dangerous Hauler has decided he wants my tasty cargo. Nothing new. But, it's also a fact that when someone has targeted you for interdiction, they will appear wherever you drop, presumably following your wake. It can be in open space, on a wing beacon, in another interdiction, in a USS, the greedy little pirate will drop in a few seconds later and say "this can all end now if you just give me X tons of cargo."

So I figure I'd introduce ol' Spiff to the Thargoid. I looped around until he got close and dropped back in on the distress signal POI and waited. No thargoid, but no Spiff either. I scooped up some more junk and hopped back out. Sure enoigh, Spiff was still out there.

"I'm surprised you made it this far..."

OK, Spiff, if you're still game, let's try it again. I loop back around and drop into the distress signal. This time, I score with a thargoid. I boost around, staying out of range, but still no Spiff. I hop out again, and guess who is still waiting for me?

"something something tasty cargo."

For a third time, I try to lead the NPC into certain death with the thargoid POI. For the third time I'm denied, and it got me thinking. Did Frontier block those pesky NPC's from getting into thargoid encounters?

I didn't have the opportunity to try it with a non-human signal source, but I'd be curious to know if NPC ships can be brought into an instance where thargoids might be present, or if the game somehow blocks that from happening... I hope that's not the case, because a) it'd be hilarious to watch, but more importantly b) it precludes the possibility that thargoid USS's might contain a battle happening in the present where we CMDRs might make a difference, instead of an endless stream of wreckage in sticky green clouds.

So the next time you're being targeted for an interdiction, try to lead 'em into a Thargoid instance and report what happens. You know, for science.

 

[Sapyx]

It is possible to get NPCs to appear with you in a Thargoid instance, but I don't think we've ever seen any human-NPC be fired on by a Thargoid.

People have lured Thargoids into following them into a station's no fire zone, hoping to see a station vs Thargoid battle. Nope. The station, and any security ships around the station, just ignore it, and it ignores them. But you can sit there invulnerable on the landing pad and watch as the Thargoid attempts to obliterate you.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

From the looks of it (Youtube assessment only), there are no Script layers yet to take all those "glitches" and constellations into account.
There were simply too many possible constellations to foresee and each single of them would need proper Script handling to avoid undesired/weird outcomes.

I still remember one of the early CMDRs being Hyperdicted - only for a pre-triggered Pirate NPC to spawn as well Seconds later and start shoot the guy.

- NPC dropped into the Player instance as Scripted, despite this being a "Hyperspace Interdiction"
- Player Ship went pseudo-disabled but you could still see the NPC hits working down Shields, as the "Shield Impact" FX wasn't removed for the cutscene Script
- NPC was entirely unaffected by the disabling Thargoid effect
- NPC continued doing what it was Scripted to do and eventually destroyed the Player Ship
- Player could only watch helplessly, as this intermixed Script mess unfolded

That's the price of not having a Sandbox. Every single possible event incl. all possible combination of events need to be preplanned. Good luck with that.

If we had a Sandbox, any human NPC in this scenario
- wouldn't have been able to follow the Player (who was already in Hyperspace) in the 1st place, as this is mechanically impossible
- if present or jumping in by any other means, it would have immediately recognized the Thargoid as a new, primary Threat
-> have let off a {NPC_CombatAI_TacticalAssessment(Retreat_Cond)} Comms "Holy mother of Mercy! Screw the Cargo, I'm getting the hell outta here!" and Hi-Waked out ASAP

For a Thargoid appearing or being lured towards a Station :
The Station, its ATC and all its Patrol fighters would have gone crazy with a Thargoid in the vicinity.
A local News Report would have been triggered.
NPCs in Supercruise would start related chatter about the freak event.
All docking/undocking NPCs would properly react to the unexpected Thargoid presence, i.e. send out related Comms and abort docking or gathering within 3-5km around the Alien vessel to watch.
At any Alliance, Imperial or Federation Station, System Defense Force Ships would have joined rapidly to visually investigate within Minutes.
Player action in that high-visibility area with the Thargoid would unfold and cause appropriate chain reactions with the present AI and Station.
Thargoid might have re-assessed its Objectives, scanned a few things and then retreated due to the updated Tactical Scenario and changed Priorities. Purely based off its Objectives vs. its observed environment, all by itself.

Best of all... All without any additional Scripts needing to Trigger anything. The Game itself and its AI would trigger themselves when certain thresholds or combinations thereof are reached or exceeded.
The beauty of a Sandbox - it entirely regulates and guides itself if properly done, together with every single thing inside it.

 

[Witcher 7]

From the looks of it (Youtube assessment only), there are no Script layers yet to take all those "glitches" and constellations into account.
There were simply too many possible constellations to foresee and each single of them would need proper Script handling to avoid undesired/weird outcomes.

I still remember one of the early CMDRs being Hyperdicted - only for a pre-triggered Pirate NPC to spawn as well Seconds later and start shoot the guy.

- NPC dropped into the Player instance as Scripted, despite this being a "Hyperspace Interdiction"
- Player Ship went pseudo-disabled but you could still see the NPC hits working down Shields, as the "Shield Impact" FX wasn't removed for the cutscene Script
- NPC was entirely unaffected by the disabling Thargoid effect
- NPC continued doing what it was Scripted to do and eventually destroyed the Player Ship
- Player could only watch helplessly, as this intermixed Script mess unfolded

That's the price of not having a Sandbox. Every single possible event incl. all possible combination of events need to be preplanned. Good luck with that.

If we had a Sandbox, any human NPC in this scenario
- wouldn't have been able to follow the Player (who was already in Hyperspace) in the 1st place, as this is mechanically impossible
- if present or jumping in by any other means, it would have immediately recognized the Thargoid as a new, primary Threat
-> have let off a {NPC_CombatAI_TacticalAssessment(Retreat_Cond)} Comms "Holy mother of Mercy! Screw the Cargo, I'm getting the hell outta here!" and Hi-Waked out ASAP

For a Thargoid appearing or being lured towards a Station :
The Station, its ATC and all its Patrol fighters would have gone crazy with a Thargoid in the vicinity.
A local News Report would have been triggered.
NPCs in Supercruise would start related chatter about the freak event.
All docking/undocking NPCs would properly react to the unexpected Thargoid presence, i.e. send out related Comms and abort docking or gathering within 3-5km around the Alien vessel to watch.
At any Alliance, Imperial or Federation Station, System Defense Force Ships would have joined rapidly to visually investigate within Minutes.
Player action in that high-visibility area with the Thargoid would unfold and cause appropriate chain reactions with the present AI and Station.
Thargoid might have re-assessed its Objectives, scanned a few things and then retreated due to the updated Tactical Scenario and changed Priorities. Purely based off its Objectives vs. its observed environment, all by itself.

Best of all... All without any additional Scripts needing to Trigger anything. The Game itself and its AI would trigger themselves when certain thresholds or combinations thereof are reached or exceeded.
The beauty of a Sandbox - it entirely regulates and guides itself if properly done, together with every single thing inside it.

Rep'ed [yesnod] I have also wanted more dialog from NPCs especially just before their ship blows up drop into a star. Sometimes when an NPC is about to interdict me (without their announcements) whilst scooping at a star and they then drop into the star, I would like to see (or better hear) them scream and comm "Oh no, I'm burning ..." [big grin]

 

[ElectricZ]

Lots of words

So, that'd be a "no" then? I'll stop trying, I suppose. Your usual excellent breakdown, FF, repped.

Its one of those things where once you peek behind the curtain, it ruins the magic, so to speak. Before I dropped in on my first S&R attempt, I tried to figure out the best build for evading the thargoids possible, taking into account speed, maneuverability, cargo capacity, defenses... How long would I be operating between visits to the station? How much help would I have from NPCs if I dropped into a NHSS and saw a bunch of Type-9's getting massacred but didn't have the weapons to drive off the ship, whether or not I'd be able to distract the thargoid long enough for civilian ships to escape, or if System Security could cover me long enough to streak in and rescue those poor blokes in their escape pods before Mr. Thargoid scooped them up.

Turns out, none of my planning mattered. Every NHSS is the same. Smashed ship, a random assortment of detritus, an a thargoid doing the scripted approach and scan before going around to hoover up the cannisters. After the 10th one I just sort of started ignoring it. I knew what was going to be there, and what was going to happen.

Every. Time.

Same with the three persistent POI's. When I first saw them, they were impressive. All that power, all those massive ships, all those poor people. "My god, what happened here? Oh, the humanity" turned into "why bother going to NHSS when I get twice the goods here?" and they turned into sites where disaster was could strike with one wrong move to fields to farm CG items, nothing more.

And in both cases, because of the static scripted behavior, the thargoids have gone from inscrutable, mysterious threats to annoying obstacles. The dread and unease at seeing an unknown target on the scanner and the haunting wail is gone. Now, it's "Yeah yeah yeah, pal. Woom, woom, woom to you too. Now get outta my way, I've got a quota to hit."

It's nice to see FD upped their game as far as placing assets during the weekly reset, but these assets are still just essentially an endlessly repeating cutscene. Just like the NPC's, I'm already going around acting like the thargoids aren't there.

Going back into wait mode until the next update, I suppose...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

That's the price of not having a Sandbox. Every single possible event incl. all possible combination of events need to be preplanned. Good luck with that.

That's not how it works and that's not how ED is designed. Each NPC how bunch of reactionary AI scripts which they pick and choose according to situation.
Code wise is just very simple - make NPCs aware about Thargoids and provide script which ties into their basic behavior - running away or attacking.

If we had a Sandbox, any human NPC in this scenario
- wouldn't have been able to follow the Player (who was already in Hyperspace) in the 1st place, as this is mechanically impossible
- if present or jumping in by any other means, it would have immediately recognized the Thargoid as a new, primary Threat
-> have let off a {NPC_CombatAI_TacticalAssessment(Retreat_Cond)} Comms "Holy mother of Mercy! Screw the Cargo, I'm getting the hell outta here!" and Hi-Waked out ASAP

Sandbox does not work that way. Accidental spawned character still happen in sandbox games, as simulating everything is nonsense.

Everything else is just not having code to deal with Thargoids and not seeing Thargoids as treat.

 

[ElectricZ]

That's not how it works and that's not how ED is designed. Each NPC how bunch of reactionary AI scripts which they pick and choose according to situation.
Code wise is just very simple - make NPCs aware about Thargoids and provide script which ties into their basic behavior - running away or attacking.



Sandbox does not work that way. Accidental spawned character still happen in sandbox games, as simulating everything is nonsense.

Everything else is just not having code to deal with Thargoids and not seeing Thargoids as treat.

That's actually the point of this thread. Saying "Simulating everything is nonsense" is just taking the argument to the opposite extreme because right now nothing is being simulated at all. As it stands, the mechanics of Thargoid/NPC interaction is non-existent. The game just doesn't support it. It may down the line, but for now it's a no-sell. And to me it's made even more jarring because the existing NPC AI hasn't been modified to take thargoids into account at all, that in a system CRAWLING with thargoids, with destroyed capital ships around every planet and Non Human Signal Sources spawning every 30 light seconds that there are still NPC civilians in the system trying to steal my tasty cargo instead of running for their lives.

Or, as Falconfly put it, "Holy mother of Mercy! Screw the Cargo, I'm getting the hell outta here!"

It's a different game altogether but Grand Theft Auto has some really entertaining events that come from the vast amount of scripting. Start shooting and cops show up, sure. But start a fire, and a fire truck rolls in to put it out. The fire truck runs over a pedestrian and an ambulance shows up to deal with the wounded guy. NPCs business people scream and run away in fear. Random tough guys and gals will stand and fight. Each class of NPC has a set of scripted rules they will follow based on an archtype that are logical and make sense.

It'd be nice to see that kind of attention given to the greatest threat the galaxy has seen.