"Do they play their own game?!"

[rOmiLaYu]

Or something akin to that...

I've seen it asked occasionally and it has, without fail, produced salt on both sides of the aisle...but the livestream with Paige the other afternoon (for us Yanks) made me, for the first time, actually ask the question of myself. Now, before I jump in with both feet, full disclosure. I love the game and accept it for what it is. It has flaws, it has bugs, it has (Yamiks voice) e-muurrrrrr-shin (/Yamiks voice) issues...some of them are defendable, others are not...but I do love the game. Over 1,000 hours in, half a million kylies on the clock, unlocked all ships, etc, etc.

And that's just the thing...I have all of those things....I do. It doesn't appear that they do, though. Sure they can dev-tool up themselves whatever they want...and probably do in the office, but at home, on their personal accounts, they all seem to be fairly casual players...at best. And I can't say that I blame them. I've been noticing it lately more and more. When the Krait and Challenger were being released, both Will and Steve talked about how they liked it, but couldn't afford it. Ed's personal account? He's in a DBX. Paige was talking about how she's in a Dolphin and also can't afford a Krait. Steve's in a Keelback...that he didn't fly for awhile because he was saving up CR for a rebuy....a rebuy on a Keelback! Would any of us long time players even sneeze at Keelback rebuy?

So I have all of this floating around in my head and then the Paige and Will livestream comes on...which by the way, Paige should be on more livestreams. She was brilliant! Anyhow...two major alarms bells went off for me. Anybody care to guess what they were? Anaconda =/= Python and What ship is that? The fact that Will misidentified the Python (although to be fair, it was in a ship kit) and his inability to identify a DBX were the final push I needed to get down this slippery slope.

No, I don't think they play the game as much as we do, or like we do...and I think that accounts for a lot of the frustration in the community. If I take my truck into the mechanic and tell him something's wrong, he might test drive it, only to come back and tell me that he doesn't see an issue and there's nothing to fix. Well, he doesn't see the issue because he's only been in the truck for a few minutes, whereas I am in it all-day, every day. And I think that's the crux of it. What it means, I don't know. It just answered - at least for me - the question of why all the salt and hostility.

But in the words of Dennis Miller, "That's just my opinion; I could be wrong."

 

[Bigmaec]

I think the same often - but to be fair, I have no idea how much games are usually played by game developers.

But some decisions just scream "I play only if I must and then only with Dev tools"

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

No, I don't think they play the game as much as we do, or like we do...and I think that accounts for a lot of the frustration in the community.

Other players don't play the game like I do, so I have no reason to expect that anyone from FDev plays it that way either.
There are SO MANY different ways to play the game and for some styles it works 'perfectly' and for other styles it's a total nightmare - which is why we get the constant mode/grind/immersion/spacelegs arguments.

Equally, I'm not sure it matters if the community managers don't play the game - they're just there to tell us how wonderful everything is, not to fix issues.
I'd much rather the development team played it more. In particular, FDev need to buy whoever designs ships' internal lighting an Occulus Rift so people no longer feel they're being interrogated every time they fly.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

I think the same often - but to be fair, I have no idea how much games are usually played by game developers.

Yeah, I wouldn't know either...but I can't imagine it's very much. I know that when I go home from work, the last thing I want to do is do work-stuff at home. Im sure it's no different there.

 

[leeG]

Would you want to spend you’re at home time doing what you do at work?

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

Would you want to spend you’re at home time doing what you do at work?

You mean aside from reading the ED forums

 

[Factabulous]

Yeah, I wouldn't know either...but I can't imagine it's very much. I know that when I go home from work, the last thing I want to do is do work-stuff at home. Im sure it's no different there.

Plus they spend all day working on newer builds - imagine if now you had to go back and play 2.4 now, it would put you off*

+ virtual rep OP

* cue smart comment about C&P being better in 2.4, or somesuch

 

[rOmiLaYu]

Other players don't play the game like I do, so I have no reason to expect that anyone from FDev plays it that way either.
There are SO MANY different ways to play the game and for some styles it works 'perfectly' and for other styles it's a total nightmare - which is why we get the constant mode/grind/immersion/spacelegs arguments.

Indeed. To date, the only bug that has, in any way, affected me was the crashing skimmers. I keep hearing about them, but have never run across them....although I am glad that the universe is decidedly less beige these days.

Equally, I'm not sure it matters if the community managers don't play the game - they're just there to tell us how wonderful everything is, not to fix issues. I'd much rather the development team played it more.

But the devs have also been in streams and talked about their relative poverty. Dav showed off his Courier. But past that, what? Point taken on the community guys, but I think it's systemic for all of them.

In particular, FDev need to buy whoever designs ships' internal lighting an Occulus Rift so people no longer feel they're being interrogated every time they fly.

I so wish there was an option to turn off the lights in the Krait. First thing I do when I get Elite Feet is I'm going to walk over and take the bulbs out myself.

Would you want to spend you’re at home time doing what you do at work?

Exactly! No, I wouldn't...and I'm not assigning blame or pointing fingers. Just coming out that I finally have decided to agree with the idea that the team doesn't play the game the way we do and that's why, on some issues, it appears we will never understand each other. Nature of the beast, I suppose.

 

[Stigbob]

I think it's not just a bit out of order to criticize people because you think they don't take their work home with them enough, I think it's a very entitled and unrealistic viewpoint to expect them to do it.

At a guess I'd say some of them play it for leisure, some of them don't, some are paid to do it and quite a few are so sick of the sight of games ED or otherwise by the time they go home it's the last thing they'd consider doing.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

Plus they spend all day working on newer builds - imagine if now you had to go back and play 2.4 now, it would put you off*

+ virtual rep OP

* cue smart comment about C&P being better in 2.4, or somesuch

And v-rep back to you, sir.

Yeah. Imagine being a dev. Docked your Panther Clipper up at the Squadron carrier and walked over to the bar on HabRing3, only to have to come home and be maglocked into the seat of your Viper MkII in the bay of SomeDumbGuy Outpost.

I wouldn't play much that way either.

I think it's not just a bit out of order to criticize people because you think they don't take their work home with them enough, I think it's a very entitled and unrealistic viewpoint to expect them to do it.

At a guess I'd say some of them play it for leisure, some of them don't, some are paid to do it and quite a few are so sick of the sight of games ED or otherwise by the time they go home it's the last thing they'd consider doing.

Right. That's the point to which I've come...at first I thought it was all just moaning. But I now see it exactly as you just put it...and it gives me clarity on the kerfuffle.

 

[Stealthie]

Would you want to spend you’re at home time doing what you do at work?

Equally, though, if you were in charge of a company, would you want the public face of that company to be people who weren't as savvy about your product as your customers are?

That's the reason outfits like PC World bit the dust.
Nobody who's got £500 to spend on a laptop wants to buy it from a spotty oik who's only assistance takes the form of "Erm, yeah. Nice innit?!"

People who don't have the proper depth of experience simply can't sell your product effectively because they can't demonstrate it's full potential to prospective customers.

 

[Bryan K]

IMO, if they don’t love the game enough to play it at home, then they shouldn’t be making it. If it’s “just a job” to them, then that’s bad for the game in the long run.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

… When the Krait and Challenger were being released, both Will and Steve talked about how they liked it, but couldn't afford it. Ed's personal account? He's in a DBX. Paige was talking about how she's in a Dolphin and also can't afford a Krait. Steve's in a Keelback...that he didn't fly for awhile because he was saving up CR for a rebuy....a rebuy on a Keelback! …

OK, Ed is flying a DBX because it's the coolest ship in the game - at least that's why I think is the reason.

Paige, Will and Steve - if you want the Krait, I will buy you one. The Krait is quite avoidable at around 120 Mcr.

I don't understand that Keelback rebuy thing, why would anybody sane try to get that thing back? Anyway where is the problem to get the credits for a rebuy? It's probably one cargo mission or maybe one very lazy hour in a RES.


(I'm sooo cool, just have to mention that if somebody missed it )

 

[BDelacroix]

When I worked at EA, we were encouraged to play the games at least a bit to have some tacit familiarity with them. I understand, however, not wanting to go home and play the game you work on all day long.

 

[[Diplomacy] Carnegie]

IMO, if they don’t love the game enough to play it at home, then they shouldn’t be making it. If it’s “just a job” to them, then that’s bad for the game in the long run.

Depends on their role.
I don't think a sound engineer or a voice artist needs to love the game. A community rep should love the game, but that doesn't mean that they should love ALL the game, or that they should play it any particular style.
What REALLY matters is how the people at the top feel about it - I'd be curious to know how much time Sandro spends playing the game.

 

[Stigbob]

Right. That's the point to which I've come...at first I thought it was all just moaning. But I now see it exactly as you just put it...and it gives me clarity on the kerfuffle.

That's the thing, also imagine if they did a live stream where one of them was death incarnate it would be instant "dev tool cheating" and "obviously not working very hard if they've got time to get that good".

They just can't win.

 

[rOmiLaYu]

IMO, if they don’t love the game enough to play it at home, then they shouldn’t be making it. If it’s “just a job” to them, then that’s bad for the game in the long run.

That's asking a lot. Imagine if it's you someone's talking about.

Bryan K's Boss: I'm going to need you to take this bit of work home tonight.

Bryan K: But I get off at five? I was going out with the wife and kids to the park.

Bryan K's Boss: Well, if you don't love this job enough to do it at home, that's going to be a problem in the long run?

Bryan K: Wait...are you threatening me?

Bryan K's boss proceeds to boil him up.


I get where you heart is, but I don't think it will ever be that way in people's heads...and heads run businesses...not hearts.

 

[Stealthie]

IMO, if they don’t love the game enough to play it at home, then they shouldn’t be making it. If it’s “just a job” to them, then that’s bad for the game in the long run.

Don't really have a problem with FDev employing people who don't love the game.
As long as the person's good at their job, they get my vote.

They're not the sort of people who you stick in front of a camera and make into the public face of a company though.

If I was FDev, I'd seriously consider offering somebody like Ed a fortnight's paid vacation and a new PC so he could go and "git gud" and I'd be looking for somebody who'd be happy to coach him in return for a few quid and/or a pile of goodies.

 

[Factabulous]

When I worked at EA, we were encouraged to play the games at least a bit to have some tacit familiarity with them. I understand, however, not wanting to go home and play the game you work on all day long.

Whereas when I bumped into the guy in charge of one of the F1 tech teams he was bemoaning the fact that he needed to recruit people who didn't follow F1 - because they need to watching the instrumentation, not the racing...

 

[BDelacroix]

Bryan K's boss proceeds to boil him up.

That escalated quickly.