Docking Bay Module - small ships docking into large ones

Pros:
  • Gives the player an ability to dock at small landing pads
  • Allows a newbie friend to play their own build
  • No need to follow a friend around in a smaller jumprange ship
  • Protecting your own cargo with something that packs more punch than an SLF
  • Docking mechanics are already implemented
  • Many players would love it, not all spacesim games have this
Cons:
  • C6 module, incompatible with having a Fighter Bay
  • Only certain Small ships would be compatible (small enough)
  • Only one ship, no rebuilds on-the-fly
  • Rebuilding only at a shipyard which sells the ship
The idea is open to changes, further suggestions and especially bumps if it gets forgotten.
 
Hmm if you land your small ship in a starport and bought / change into another ship, what happens to your mothership then?
 
As has been said an idea abandoned/rejected before the game released.

What happens to the newbie friend and his small ship when the large one is destroyed?

Can you swap out of the large ship to something without this module while the small ship is on board?

What is the situation if one of you is wanted and the other is not?
 
Appart from other things already mentioned, you know same small ships are pretty big, right? If we just go by weight, that size 6 slot you want to use for this can't even hold enough cargo to cover the weight of my Eagle.
 
Appart from other things already mentioned, you know same small ships are pretty big, right? If we just go by weight, that size 6 slot you want to use for this can't even hold enough cargo to cover the weight of my Eagle.
Ridiculous! If the game can squeeze one orbital station inside another, I'm sure it can jam a small ship into a bigger one!

Physics be damned!:ROFLMAO:

Station Mashup 01.png
 
Was originally intended that the Anaconda (and presumably others) would be able to field a small ship. This was changed to SLFs because they didn't want to deal with nesting ships. In short, not happening unless for some reason they've changed their minds.
I'm well aware. I assume it's more of a code thing than a balance thing. There should be plenty of available workaround hacks. One example (this assumes loading time for the small ship was the issue):
The small ship doesn't need to stop existing anymore. Plop the player into the big ship, make the small ship noclip and invisible to everything and magically tether it to the big one so it doesn't need to unload from the game. Teleport it 10km away if needed, just to be safe. A moment before it becomes invisible, replace it with a placeholder texture that looks exactly like it, which would complete the docking animation.

Hmm if you land your small ship in a starport and bought / change into another ship, what happens to your mothership then?
What happens to your ship if you leave your ship on a planet's surface and walk into a friend's ship? I don't know. I assume it stays there until you pick it up. You could order it delivered to a station. Unless you left it in combat, in which case it plays out, normally simulated.
Also, same as with having cargo, you can't change to another ship until you resolve this. Otherwise, players would repeatedly change ships and leave a whole bunch of them loaded.
Edit: If you leave the system while it is in combat, it gets destroyed. If it was not in combat, it gets treated according to your status in the system. If you're an Ally, it just gets docked to the nearest station (even in another system). If you're neutral, the same happens, but you have to pay the transport fee to get access to it again. If you're hostile, you get a report that it was destroyed.
If another player is in it, nothing happens.

As has been said an idea abandoned/rejected before the game released.

What happens to the newbie friend and his small ship when the large one is destroyed?

Can you swap out of the large ship to something without this module while the small ship is on board?

What is the situation if one of you is wanted and the other is not?
If docked, the newbie friend and their ship both get destroyed, as expected. If not docked, they're on their own.

You can. The small ship gets docked and gets left in the station. Unless you have capped the number of docked ships, in which case you can't. Same with trying to unequip the module. To load the small ship in, equip it like you would an SRV.

In case of small ship being wanted, it doesn't show until you get scanned. Then it changes to both of you being wanted. The big ship gets accused of smuggling.
In case of big ship being wanted, the small ship remains clean until getting its own bounty.

Appart from other things already mentioned, you know same small ships are pretty big, right? If we just go by weight, that size 6 slot you want to use for this can't even hold enough cargo to cover the weight of my Eagle.
For simplicity sake, we can go with the base hull mass and allow Hauler, Sidewinder, Adder, Eagle, Imperial Courier, Imperial Eagle and Viper. Those are all under 64t (c6 cargo hold capacity). I don't know how the sizes compare, but any of those that can geometrically fit in the texture should be allowed to dock.

Let's say a Hauler fits (not sure that it does). You equip it with with B-rated modules, all engineered to be heavier, load it full of cargo and dock it. You're still allowed to do that because the game doesn't take it into account for this step. Just like how the game doesn't take into account module mass when calculating shield capacity.

Any cargo held in the small ship remains in the small ship, no cargo transfer happens. However, the total ship mass along with its cargo gets added to the big ship for the purposes of agility and jump range. You can transfer the cargo similar to how you would transfer stuff between your suit and your ship.
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Out of 6 replies this has gotten so far, 4 are skeptic of the suggestion, 2 are supportive and 0 just flat out don't want it. Looking promising so far.
By the way, if anyone thinks of any other issues the devs might have, please point them out and try to suggest a solution to other mentioned potential issues. Nothing I've said in this post or the OP has to be the way I said it.

Edit2: If and when they get around ship interiors and they aren't able to deal with docking physics, make the small ship finish docking using that forcefield or a tractor beam, whatever it is that catches SLFs. No physics needed, just an animation of the ship moving on a predetermined path.

 
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I'm well aware. I assume it's more of a code thing than a balance thing. There should be plenty of available workaround hacks. One example (this assumes loading time for the small ship was the issue):
IIRC it was said around the time I joined it was a nested code type of issue and related to the different ways in which stations (FCs) and ammo (SLFs) worked.
 
IIRC it was said around the time I joined it was a nested code type of issue and related to the different ways in which stations (FCs) and ammo (SLFs) worked.
Huh. In that case the suggested example solution should work just as well. When the small ship is "docked" (tethered invisible ghost), the "ammo" of the Docking Bay Module would be the small ship's unique ID.

That's some good info btw.
 
I got the wrong impression from the title by the way, that seemed to imply a way to dock an existing small ship.
From subsequent posts what is being suggested seems to be more of a manned SLF rather than the drone we have now.
 
I got the wrong impression from the title by the way, that seemed to imply a way to dock an existing small ship.
From subsequent posts what is being suggested seems to be more of a manned SLF rather than the drone we have now.
An SLF which you could land and get out on foot from would also be wonderful for exobiology, even if it couldn't carry an SRV.
 
It is possible that years ago Frontier did not want to nest ships because of the uncertain possibility of ship interiors, and the complexity nested ships would introduce.

Obviously I don't know anything about their code. But the crazy nested station example above shows that it is reasonable to believe solutions can be made to nest assets. In the example above the Coriolis is rotating relative to the smaller orbital station. I can land on both and walk around. Obviously the graphics are buggy because it doesn't actually fit. Also... the smaller orbital stn has a shipyard. I can "nest" ships inside a station that is nested inside another rotating station.

My intuition says simply nesting a ship inside another ship would be much simpler than this, because as the OP pointed out the nested ship doesn't actually need to "exist". Similar to a station shipyard.
 
I got the wrong impression from the title by the way, that seemed to imply a way to dock an existing small ship.
From subsequent posts what is being suggested seems to be more of a manned SLF rather than the drone we have now.
An existing small ship was indeed the suggestion. Something that a friend can customize and play around alone in. Manned SLF is the intended suggested use of the feature. Exploration and station access is a nice side-effect (which would probably end up being used more).
 
Appart from other things already mentioned, you know same small ships are pretty big, right? If we just go by weight, that size 6 slot you want to use for this can't even hold enough cargo to cover the weight of my Eagle.
Stored as cargo, no, but that's not the heaviest thing you can put in a size 6 - a Prismatic shield, or a 5B limpet controller engineered for Reinforced 5 is 80t which would cover a lightweight Eagle or most Sidewinder or Hauler builds.

With the size 5 bay able to support 80t and the size 7 bay able to carry 320t (reinforced limpet controllers) it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that a size 6 bay could hold up to 160t, which would allow even non-lightweight Viper 3 or Courier loadouts too.

The width and height of the docking hatch might be a more significant restriction.
 
It's an idea I've quite liked for a while, but for balance reasons I don't think a Class 6 available to all/most/many Large ships would be a good idea. Instead I'd go with a Class 8, permit it only for the Type-9, Type-10 (buffed to have an additional Class 8 like the Type-9 was) and Panther-Clipper when it comes, and allow any small pad ship to be docked in it.

I think it'd be really technically complex to do with some pretty big UI/UX questions to resolve, though shouldn't be impossible.
 
It's an idea I've quite liked for a while, but for balance reasons I don't think a Class 6 available to all/most/many Large ships would be a good idea. Instead I'd go with a Class 8, permit it only for the Type-9, Type-10 (buffed to have an additional Class 8 like the Type-9 was) and Panther-Clipper when it comes, and allow any small pad ship to be docked in it.

I think it'd be really technically complex to do with some pretty big UI/UX questions to resolve, though shouldn't be impossible.
Class 6 is a good tradeoff for weaker Small ships. Advantages of C6 SLF Bay are:
  • able to redeploy another one instantly as soon as you lose one
  • able to deploy many of them one after another
  • able to deploy a different one, depending on what you're up against
  • A good SLF with a good pilot can beat anything not pimped out for combat
But if you allow any small ship, the ship bay would become too powerful. I consider Cobra Mk5 and Vulture unfair, even for a C8 slot, even for a Type-9.
 
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Class 6 is a good tradeoff for weaker Small ships.
Part of the issue for me is I really don't like the idea of cutting across the longstanding definition of Small/Medium/Large ships and creating an 'Extra Small' category just for this purpose. And while the Small category doesn't have the best competition within itself nowadays, the <=64t hull mass category just seems like the Courier show, and I'd sooner have a Type-10 able to launch a Vulture at the exorbitant cost of a Class 8 internal, than every Anaconda, Cutter and Corvette being able to fairly comfortably launch a Courier.
 
Part of the issue for me is I really don't like the idea of cutting across the longstanding definition of Small/Medium/Large ships and creating an 'Extra Small' category just for this purpose. And while the Small category doesn't have the best competition within itself nowadays, the <=64t hull mass category just seems like the Courier show, and I'd sooner have a Type-10 able to launch a Vulture at the exorbitant cost of a Class 8 internal, than every Anaconda, Cutter and Corvette being able to fairly comfortably launch a Courier.
Cutter also has C8 slots and should therefore be able to fit this module in. Following that logic, every Cutter should also be able to launch a Vulture, much like a Type-9 could.

You know how some ships in the shipyard are marked as "Fighter Hangar -capable"? My idea was that some smaller ships also have "Compatible with docking in a larger ship". Again, which ships end up working like that is a balance issue, not implementation issue.

There could also be a C6 and a C8 size of a Docking Bay.

(Going off-topic, I'd argue against this. There should exist some very useful ship that's always seen a harmless loaf. As it is, the Type-9 fits that description quite well. I like the ship. Check the following build out. It's a T-9 I outfitted for combat. It's meant to be a nasty surprise and something others don't want to deal with. The enemy needs to do over 40000 damage to kill it. Trading 25% of that for a Vulture instead of an SLF would actually make it a threat. A T-9 being a threat... Takes from its charm.)
 
The in-game description of the Anaconda still has that artifact from its earlier intended design:
The pride of FauIcon deLacy's shipyards. the Anaconda is a versatile ship that can carry large cargos and pack a heavy punch. So hardy is the Anaconda, some smaller navies use it in lieu of a frigate or light cruiser. The ship can also be upgraded with a docking bay.
 
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