Does Elite: Dangerous still have a Game Director?

Jack Wilmslow

Jack Wilmslow
Heya all,

Just a quick question. Is Piers Jackson still the Game Director for Elite: Dangerous? According to his LinkedIn it only shows he is the Game Director for Planet Zoo. It did show Elite: Dangerous, but it seems like it was changed in the last 6 months.

I am curious as along with the CMs, the Game Director in other IPs usually communicates with it's respective community on their vision of the game, any goals they have in mind, their reasoning and rationalisation for game design decisions and philosophy. Also generally they are quite active when things are not going well, and act as a bit of a buffer to the CM's.

Personally, I am really concerned that the CM's are being used to soak up the communities stresses way too much, like an absorbent stress ball, and worried that at the end of the week they are just being soo burnt out they they are being wrung out into socially acceptable alcoholism.

Would it be possible if we could have a Q&A or some blog posts from him? Would love to hear his thought on Elite, what works well, what doesn't, that sort of thing.

I just find it really unusual that a Game Director would be sooo quiet during a launch period of a major release. Last we heard from him was a marketing article in Eurogamer.

I say this with the caveat that i'm just a dude with a cat with no real knowledge on the inner workings and processes inside FDev, but I would love to have a bit more insight into. I feel this is something that would be beneficial to the community as a whole. Understandings can help with cohesion and acceptance. Communication can help build bridges, and fortify them for the benefit of all.

(And I do not want to diminish the BLOODY AWESOME work the CMs are doing right now)

Thanks everyone! Have a lovely day :)

(Also please, don't be dingleberries, so keep it civil and no harassment of literally anyone. It ain't cool. Also no circlerubbing or beating a dead horse. I'd just like a conversation with regards to development communication and the weirdly lack of communication from the Game Director)
 

Riverside

Riverside
The in-game credits screen still says Piers Jackson:
bncMF1P.png


I don't think calling out individuals (except maybe David Braben) is all that productive a path to take but some sort of explanation of what was intended & why might go a long way towards helping fans understand what's going on & more first hand info is always very welcome.
 

Jack Wilmslow

Jack Wilmslow
Riverside said:
The in-game credits screen still says Piers Jackson:
bncMF1P.png


I don't think calling out individuals (except maybe David Braben) is all that productive a path to take but some sort of explanation of what was intended & why might go a long way towards helping fans understand what's going on & more first hand info is always very welcome.
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Oh no! I'm not calling anybody out. I am really sorry if it seemed that way. It was more from a basis of curiosity based on my previous experience with other games/IPs, and was generally curious as normally you would hear from a Game Director quite a lot in the lead up to release and after. And with the change to his LInkedIn and lack of general communication (I know CMs do the communication) I am just generally curious.

This is not a criticism of the game (cause the update is great imo) or the development of the game (they did it at home, gotta commend them for that). Just an observation, and maybe can be helpful feedback for Frontier and the CM team with their communication plans.
 

Montgomery Dog

Montgomery Dog
As the OP very wisely points out, discussion on this subject could skirt dangerously close to calling out individuals - which never ends well, despite a well-intentioned start.

I think that there is an interesting and civil conversation to be had here - but I'll keep my opinions on this to myself (because internet).
 

Jack Wilmslow

Jack Wilmslow
Montgomery Dog said:
As the OP very wisely points out, discussion on this subject could skirt dangerously close to calling out individuals - which never ends well, despite a well-intentioned start.

I think that there is an interesting and civil conversation to be had here - but I'll keep my opinions on this to myself (because internet).
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Yeah I don't want to call out individuals or anyone really, that is not my style. There is enough of those, and honestly I just think its a waste of bandwidth, they are never a base of rationality or even understanding. Just pure frustration. It doesn't help anyone. The CMs and FDev deserve a lot better from us I think.

But I am very interested in communication, insights into designs and philosophies, and also how each individual companies communicate with their communities, and what strengths/weaknesses do each have.

Personally I would love to have this thread as a basis of a discussion for ultimately feedback to the CMs and FDev on the communities expectations, but also FDev's expecations of the game, and how they do things specifically. I think it would be a fascinating exercise.

Anyone who gets needlessly spicy will feel my wrath like the crashing of a thousand waves :p
 

Aewarin Jameson

Aewarin Jameson
Northpin said:
Other than that, i would really love to hear some shared thoughts regarding certain game design decisions and the philosophy behind them.
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The game director of Overwatch used to regularly make posts and videos about the state of the game, thoughts on what they were doing, and potential updates for the future. While his attention was mostly at the top end of game play (a place I have never seen) it was none the less engaging and interesting. You knew a nerf was incoming, but, it was justified so you didn't feel too bad over it.

Arguably with the CMs being more engaged, and there will be (should be) a Dev post every month .. or something like that, perhaps that would be a good time for the game director of FDEV/ED to step in and give us some idea as to where they want the game to head towards:
  • CMs - field questions from us often
  • Devs - give us an idea as to what they're working on, things they are trying, ideas, etc.
  • Game Director - overall direction of the game
For me that would instill some confidence that there was a master plan for ED.
 

Jack Wilmslow

Jack Wilmslow
Aewarin Jameson said:
The game director of Overwatch used to regularly make posts and videos about the state of the game, thoughts on what they were doing, and potential updates for the future. While his attention was mostly at the top end of game play (a place I have never seen) it was none the less engaging and interesting. You knew a nerf was incoming, but, it was justified so you didn't feel too bad over it.

Arguably with the CMs being more engaged, and there will be (should be) a Dev post every month .. or something like that, perhaps that would be a good time for the game director of FDEV/ED to step in and give us some idea as to where they want the game to head towards.
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Indeed. Jeff Kaplan was fantastic at the communication (and a Legend in the gaming community). A fascinating aspect, which you touched on, is that even if there was a nerf/buff change that the community didn't like, because of the frank & honest communication any backlash, or "circlerubbing" was massively mitigated.

I think one of the core issues at the moment is that CMDRs don't know if something is intended or not. It's hard to grasp and give feedback. And waiting for CMs to contact the Devs to wait for a response, and then trying to communicate that. Even with the best will in the world, some communication reverts to Chinese Whispers, and certain nuance maybe lost in transit.

I agree with a monthly Dev Post, and it doesn't have to be specifically about Odyssey, but Elite in general. Posts about Powerplay, BGS, Engineering, Combat, CQC ... there is a tremendous amount of material that they could cover. It would be a fantastic boon for community communication and the devs to receive focused feedback.

At the moment, I feel we are left too in the dark about intentions of their design and implementation, which makes it harder for the community do discern whether a change was intentional or not. Without that information, it makes the job harder for CMs to really focus on what is useful to pass onto the Dev team.

I do feel confident that this is what Arthurs plans are going forward. But any posts like these HAVE to come from either the Game Director or Lead Developers. It cannot come from the CM team. And it cannot come from a Stream either. It has to be on the forum. Too much is lost in communication in a stream, the chat is too active to allow any sort of discussion (however I do not want to diminish the value of said streams either).

I worry if all communication comes directly from CMs, it won't have the desired weight and impact if it was from the Game Director or Lead Devs. What would be encouraging is if the Dev Team or the Game Directors would also stay in their Dev posts, respond to questions more quickly and efficiently. Leaving it to the CMs will delay and frustrate the process, and already add, what is already a tough workload of them (I would imagine).

The same level of voracity that Sally has shown in the Patch Notes threads, but from someone like Piers or Kay or Dav would be sooo amazing, and ultimately, massively beneficial to us, but more importantly Frontier.
 

Astaran

Astaran
Paradox Game Directors do this as well in their Dev Diaries, e.g. Stellaris. There has been an ongoing stream of Dev Diaries since release that explain in detail the thoughts and rationale behind decisions and (in)actions. They discuss community feedback and how they see their game working (or not working as desired/intended). It is always very interesting and helps (me) to understand the state of the game and the road it is taking. Another example is the currently starting marketing campaign for Victoria III. TheLead Game Director clearly explains their vision for the game and what it is supposed to be and what it isn't supposed to be. I love that approach. They are not perfect (of course), since nothing in real-life ever is.

In my opinion, a lot of the troubles we have had with Odyssey since launch could have been avoided, if the Dev Diaries had been more like that and less like just another marketing tool. Look at Space Legs combat zones as an example: if FDev had showcased them last year, the community would have had the chance to offer constructive feedback ("You're sure you don't want to include additional scenarios like attack/defense, Rush mode?", "Can we have SRV and Skimmers in High Intensity CZs instead of more bullet sponges?"). FDev in turn could have said "Yeah, but for reason X we can't do this." or "Good feedback, we can't guarantee it for launch for reason Y, but we'll see if we can get it included later".

The same for other issues like picking space flowers for exploration, the lack of new ships, fighters and SRVs etc.
 

Erei

Erei
Astaran said:
Paradox Game Directors do this as well in their Dev Diaries, e.g. Stellaris. There has been an ongoing stream of Dev Diaries since release that explain in detail the thoughts and rationale behind decisions and (in)actions. They discuss community feedback and how they see their game working (or not working as desired/intended). It is always very interesting and helps (me) to understand the state of the game and the road it is taking. Another example is the currently starting marketing campaign for Victoria III. TheLead Game Director clearly explains their vision for the game and what it is supposed to be and what it isn't supposed to be. I love that approach. They are not perfect (of course), since nothing in real-life ever is.
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Yeah, I wouldn't take paradox as an example. They've been released a constant stream of cash grab DLC, that were mostly poorly received, and did nothing to address that. Then, their stocked tanked in 2020, so they make an apologize for the last 3 years.
Not only that, but everytime something went wrong, they went and said the player were wrong. Like when they increased the DLC prices for "poor" countries.

They don't care. It's just money and PR. Plz buy our cash grab ok ?
 

Fizzatron

Fizzatron
What is wanted here? The Dev director wasting time writing articles or doing Q&A's or working on Odyssey to iron out the issues? At this point I think it's the better option to let the CMs do their job and the Devs do theirs. Concern, concern.. concern... :rolleyes:
 

Erei

Erei
Fizzatron said:
What is wanted here? The Dev director wasting time writing articles or doing Q&A's or working on Odyssey to iron out the issues? At this point I think it's the better option to let the CMs do their job and the Devs do theirs. Concern, concern.. concern... :rolleyes:
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In Warframe, the game director do a 1h stream with CM and others dev monthly. He also stream for a week before every major release, taking unfiltered question from chat, and literally noting on a notepad some ideas from chat.
The company is very big on listening to players feedback, and when they f*** up, they try hard to correct the mistake and apologize. But then they are canadian, so I guess the "apologize" part is cultural^^

You can be a game director, and be passionate about your game and it's community, and take an hour of your time once in a while to listen to it.
 

[VR] Zakk

[VR] Zakk
At the end of the day, it's the result that counts, not how they get there. As long as they communicate, develop an understanding for how the players play the game, and let that information flow back into the development process, it doesn't make much of a difference to me who is in charge of the actual communication.

If we absolutely want to discuss staff positions: as far as I am concerned, Elite could do with a creative director. Or maybe even two of them - one responsible for story & lore, the other for gameplay elements and features.

FDev's approach to game design appears to be a bit on the technocratic side. More creative elements would not hurt. Asking the community for feedback is a great thing to do, but you cannot design a great game based on community feedback alone.
 

Dextio

D
Aewarin Jameson said:
  • Devs - give us an idea as to what they're working on, things they are trying, ideas, etc.
  • Game Director - overall direction of the game
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Jack Wilmslow said:
But any posts like these HAVE to come from either the Game Director or Lead Developers.
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Got a couple possible points

  • Devs/engineers are not usually the best at communication :), particularly when the majority of the community is critical of your work.
  • I don't imagine a lot of devs like their work being looked at before it's ready
  • I don't imagine many devs like doing "customer service" by dealing with angry members of the community; i'd imagine for most devs, coding/development would be preferred
  • The community would swarm the dev. We already jump on the CM team, wherever they post. Just imagine if it was a dev commenting...It'd be an absolute frenzy.

Not saying that Engineer <=> customer comms is impossible, mind you. It just might either take a "mediator" (CM), or perhaps some sort of super streamlined application that allows for ordered clear/to-the-point communication from the community, or perhaps a super chill community (which I don't think we are right now; too many angry/undisciplined people).

Ocassionally we will get lucky and get Dr. Kay Ross or the lead backend dev, but I think both (even Dr. Kay) are getting slammed right now.

Nah, I think the more likely scenerio will probably a monthly dev talk where the dev might talk, contextually, about what they are doing, or how a piece of their tech works. Kinda like how Dr. Kay talked about the stellar forge initially. Probably no code, as it's proprietary.

Note: just getting these presentations ready might annoy the dev, as it's taking away from their dev time to do education/info-sharing with the [highly critical] public (some might like this, but I would imagine many might not)
 
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