Does every minor faction murder civilians?

[John Sheridan]

I have taken a few spec ops missions (but not completed) for an alliance confederacy and all of them have been to murder civilians for...reasons. Are all spec ops missions like this for all factions? Are there any "good guys" in the game. Don't get me wrong, I am an incredibly cynical human being but it would seem to be a little much (actually a lot) to have every faction engaged in such activities. Is this the case?

 

[Backelaer]

I have taken a few spec ops missions (but not completed) for an alliance confederacy and all of them have been to murder civilians for...reasons. Are all spec ops missions like this for all factions? Are there any "good guys" in the game. Don't get me wrong, I am an incredibly cynical human being but it would seem to be a little much (actually a lot) to have every faction engaged in such activities. Is this the case?

Click on another mission not called 'spec ops'? Simple as that..
And good guys? They are the ones you choose to help for whatever reason.
Almost like real life innit?

 

[DNA-Decay]

There are missions of each type for each government type.
They have different flavour text, but their effect and intent is the same.

"Good guys" is however you run your own eBushido.

I don't trade slaves.
(Except that one time, but I was drunk and unhappy about it even at the time).

And I love that Elite dangles a juicy carrot, and then offers an unethical route to your goal.

 

[Bryan K]

It’s kind of a human pastime.

 

[John Sheridan]

Click on another mission not called 'spec ops'? Simple as that..
And good guys? They are the ones you choose to help for whatever reason.
Almost like real life innit?

I didn't ask how I could personally avoid spec ops missions. I asked if all minor factions engage in such activities. Perhaps you misread my question. Also, no, it's not even close to real life. In first world countries, you don't see two democratic political parties going around murdering the civilians of the other party.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I've received Activation Orders (Spec Ops) that were not Murder Civilians, but rather a Terrorist Leader (status: Clean). Sort of depends on which side you believe. But history is written by the victors, and war does not determine who is right, only who is left.

 

[rrobes]

Don't murder civilians, don't trade in slaves, don't transport criminals.

However, anything with a bounty or an opposing PP entity is fair game.

Weird how you bring stuff into a game. I mean, if you were totally to the dark side, it would be sort of liberating, no boundaries (that's only until you get caught).

 

[Jack Schitt]

I didn't ask how I could personally avoid spec ops missions. I asked if all minor factions engage in such activities. Perhaps you misread my question. Also, no, it's not even close to real life. In first world countries, you don't see two democratic political parties going around murdering the civilians of the other party.

ED by its nature as a game presents only a very rough approximation of how a galaxy-spanning civilisation might be structured, and then within that approximation dials the extremes up to 11. While this may result in the impact and frequency of the shadier activities being amplified to an uncomfortable degree, their actual existence shouldn't be at all surprising in a galaxy with a liberal coating of dystopia. Just because an organisation has "democratic" or "party" in its name, and aligns itself with a superpower, it doesn't necessarily mean it's squeaky clean and ethically pure. In fact by the standards of 20th and 21st century Earth, of which ED's galaxy is a hall-of-mirrors extrapolation, the opposite tends to be true. Democratically-named organisations may be anything but, and individuals or groups within first world governments being peripherally complicit in state sanctioned criminality by their political or economic allies is not unheard of either. ED's politics are an extreme simplification and exaggeration of that.

The problem with ED is not so much that these missions exist, but that they're presented to every random pilot on the same public bulletin board interface offering humanitarian missions or cargo runs. That certainly doesn't happen across every jurisdiction in real life (it would be a lot easier to chase down the "bad guys" if it did). In an ideal world where the game had developed differently and/or more rapidly, these shadier activities would be surfaced subtly to suitably inclined players through a network of NPC contacts and proxies rather than being presented on the mission board right next to requests for food aid. Pilots who hadn't already shown an inclination towards less palatable activities wouldn't see them. It's a presentation issue rather than a content issue.

Unless this changes, a bit of headcanon (i.e. literally pretending that you haven't seen them, or that they're false flags or propaganda) may be the only answer really.

 

[Sapyx]

"Good" factions in ED are less likely to ask you to do illegal things. It's not impossible, just much less likely. I believe the likelihood is also affected by what the local laws actually are; for example, a faction that wouldn't normally ask you to assassinate people or smuggle drugs, might do so if they're a minority faction in a system controlled by an Anarchy faction.

ED factions are grouped into four "ethos" classes: Social, Corporate, Authoritarian and Criminal. That order is, roughly, the order of "niceness" of each group. So, Social factions (eg democracies) rarely ask you to do illegal or immoral acts. Criminal ones often will.

This is certainly an improvement over how the factions behaved back when the game first launched: every faction offered exactly the same mission types, with the same odds of those types occurring.

The next step in "logicality" would be to tie in mission offerings to your proficiency and experience. If you're a famous smuggler, even "nice" factions would be likely to ask you to smuggle stuff for them. That sort of thing.

 

[Aashenfox]

"Good" factions in ED are less likely to ask you to do illegal things. It's not impossible, just much less likely. I believe the likelihood is also affected by what the local laws actually are; for example, a faction that wouldn't normally ask you to assassinate people or smuggle drugs, might do so if they're a minority faction in a system controlled by an Anarchy faction.

ED factions are grouped into four "ethos" classes: Social, Corporate, Authoritarian and Criminal. That order is, roughly, the order of "niceness" of each group. So, Social factions (eg democracies) rarely ask you to do illegal or immoral acts. Criminal ones often will.

This is certainly an improvement over how the factions behaved back when the game first launched: every faction offered exactly the same mission types, with the same odds of those types occurring.

The next step in "logicality" would be to tie in mission offerings to your proficiency and experience. If you're a famous smuggler, even "nice" factions would be likely to ask you to smuggle stuff for them. That sort of thing.

This is kind of a red herring. There must be something else in play, because all the factions in Sol are democracies, and some are notably naughtier than others, Sol Nationalists for example, FREQUENTLY request smuggling and black ops missions, whereas Mother Gaia it is rarer and Federal Congress, literally never. I'm not saying I know better, just that there must be something else at work for this 'criminality' level of missions.

 

[Marra Morgan]

Are there any "good guys" in the game.

No.

 

[Shiro Akai]

I have taken a few spec ops missions (...) all of them have been to murder civilians for...reasons.

As I have written in some other similar thread: it's how modern wars are executed. Long time ago some strategists realized that killing enemy is less profitable than maiming him. Kill a soldier and your enemy will replace it with fresh one. Back to square one. Exhaustion war which leads nowhere.

But maim soldier and your enemy will have to take care of him. Yes, will have to. Otherwise civilians will start rioting against government. Who wants the leaders that don't care about their people? So from simple PR POV gov will take care of wounded soldiers. This way they will pour money, staff and resources into treatment of wounded, not into warfare directly. Costs will rise without providing war benefit.

Now - what it have in common with civilians. Well... strike at the soft place of your enemy (civilians) and sow fear among them. They will demand protection, they will put pressure onto gov. They will have to be dealt with. If gov neglect them, they will overthrow current rule and elect more keen one. In the end - it will destabilize your enemy. And this may help you achieve your goals.

Morally: despicable.
In terms of victory: viable.

Are there any "good guys" in the game. Don't get me wrong, I am an incredibly cynical human being but it would seem to be a little much (actually a lot) to have every faction engaged in such activities. Is this the case?

apart from above - you're missing one thing. White gloves operation and expendable assets.

We have a faction. Faction has it's own structure, resources and forces. Any moves from their side will attract attention. So they devised a "white glove" operation - let's hire a mercenary for the dirty work. It's that kind of mentality: "we want them dead but we don't want it being tied to us. Ofc we profit from it but no one can prove it's us behind it. Not directly at least". So that faction hires a mercenary. Unaffiliated CMDR that for the right price will do anything.

Expendable asset.

You.

That way they get two ships at one shot. Achieve their goals. No direct connection. If accusations occur - "hey, that CMDR is not part of our ranks, we are not responsible for his actions. Admittedly regrettable actions but we cannot answer for that. True - we used services provided by that CMDR, it's a common practice to outsource certain task to independent pilots. In this case we treat it as terrorist action performed by independent and unaffiliated party."

Now - a subject to think about:
How do you know that next mission to assassinate clean "pirate" isn't a contract against previous "expendable asset" that has expired it's usage and has to be "dealt with"?

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

I have taken a few spec ops missions (but not completed) for an alliance confederacy and all of them have been to murder civilians for...reasons. Are all spec ops missions like this for all factions? Are there any "good guys" in the game. Don't get me wrong, I am an incredibly cynical human being but it would seem to be a little much (actually a lot) to have every faction engaged in such activities. Is this the case?

From what I've seen all factions offer all types of missions the only difference being how they are called. The mission system in ED is very basic.

The main difference between available mission types I see is based on location and economy - starports offering (often) other missions than orbital outposts or planetary ports.
Planetary colonies often have only bio-waste transport and massacre/ground attack (illegal combat) missions. Industrial starports often have a lot of mining and cargo transport missions.

There might be a faction somewhere that doesn't offer "kill civilians" missions, but that would be only because the conditions required to spawn those missions aren't meet.

 

[Morbad]

Are there any "good guys" in the game.

Nope.

 

[Schlack]

Are there any "good guys" in the game.

Arewethebaddies.mov

 

[moorison]

You could ask how these ±7 factions per system got powerful enough to be considered significant (it is probably easier in systems with small populations). Even though there is always one face providing the missions, they seem to be an intermediary for different mission givers.

It is funny to see when reaching a boom state, federal aligned powers make requests for slaves.

Would actual good guys request the destruction of enemies, even if it is legal? No chance for redemption?

 

[Red Anders]

[video=youtube;uK-kWRAVmRU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uK-kWRAVmRU[/video]

 

[UmbraRex]

You could ask how these ±7 factions per system got powerful enough to be considered significant (it is probably easier in systems with small populations). Even though there is always one face providing the missions, they seem to be an intermediary for different mission givers.

It is funny to see when reaching a boom state, federal aligned powers make requests for slaves.

Would actual good guys request the destruction of enemies, even if it is legal? No chance for redemption?

headcannon alert:

When I see fed or alliance, or many independent factions requesting slaves my thought is they intend to free them. I mean after all, how better to ensure a loyal citizen base than to free slaves and give them citizenship?

 

[CMDR-AD]

headcannon alert:

When I see fed or alliance, or many independent factions requesting slaves my thought is they intend to free them. I mean after all, how better to ensure a loyal citizen base than to free slaves and give them citizenship?

There used to be missions which actually indicated that the slaves brought in were freed and put into a care program. I have not seen one of these missions in ages, however.

 

[bigity]

Don't murder civilians, don't trade in slaves, don't transport criminals.

However, anything with a bounty or an opposing PP entity is fair game.

Weird how you bring stuff into a game. I mean, if you were totally to the dark side, it would be sort of liberating, no boundaries (that's only until you get caught).

You left off all the good stuff.