Dogfighting in Elite Dangerous

Hi all!

As i commented on the Kickstarter page, i think it should work like this:

Frontier was pretty unplayable in terms of dogfighting and approaching planets. I think for E:D they could do an hybrid: use newtonian for planet Gravity, but don't use Inertia for ship movements, so dogfighting will be more enjoyable, and you won't have problems passing-by planets.
Also, because there's no time-acceleration, you should have less problems reaching the planets, because the orbits will not move so fast.
 
I have to say, I got into millions of dogfights on the original elite games, couldn't do anything on the Frontier and First encounters engines... Just get a massive ship, buy 200 shielf generators, turn on the auto pilot, and you fly through any pirates... Sucked absolutely every last drop of fun out of it.

I don't object to the idea of having an option to spin on your axis without changing heading, ala Babylon 5 Starfury, but I would suggest this may do well to be a single simple toggle switch. Effectively, main thrusters on, main thrusters off... :)
 
Hotas !?

I hope that for a new game, TrackIR should be available ... it's a total game changer ..
But my expectations are that a great array of joysticks are too .. I have a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and, I fully expect to be able to use that in Elite .. It'll make dogfighting a LOT more intresting ....
 
I hope that for a new game, TrackIR should be available ... it's a total game changer ..
But my expectations are that a great array of joysticks are too .. I have a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and, I fully expect to be able to use that in Elite .. It'll make dogfighting a LOT more intresting ....

Sure is a gamechanger. :)
I have to say, I got into millions of dogfights on the original elite games, couldn't do anything on the Frontier and First encounters engines... Just get a massive ship, buy 200 shielf generators, turn on the auto pilot, and you fly through any pirates... Sucked absolutely every last drop of fun out of it.

Yep, I agree fully with that. Elite D must avoid that at all costs.
 
Also, because there's no time-acceleration, you should have less problems reaching the planets, because the orbits will not move so fast.

You are correct,...but a part of me will miss the stardreamer. I used to love just sitting after a particularly hard battle on some planet with the stardreamer up a notch or two and watch the suns and planets set a bit faster than usual :eek:
 
You are correct,...but a part of me will miss the stardreamer. I used to love just sitting after a particularly hard battle on some planet with the stardreamer up a notch or two and watch the suns and planets set a bit faster than usual :eek:

Yeah, that's the main thing I'll miss about StarDreamer - does that basically mean we'll be unable to watch the sun(s) rise and set, short of doing it the old fashioned way (real time in other words ;) )?
 
First off this thread should prob. be move to the new forum for Elite Dangerous.

Once that is out of the way I would really prefer the original ELITE style when it comes to dogfights.

Its been the one I enjoyed the most of them all. The sequals werent as good as the original when it came to dogfights.

This is ofc just my 2 cents on the matter.
 
Well spotted Carsten, thread moved :)

@ Space Pirate, yes I guess so. Watching the Sun (or Planets) set will have to be done the old fashioned way.
 
A few tweaks would've allowed FE2/FFE to mimic Elite's combat style while also surpassing it:

- the ability to set one's motion as relative to a target - whatever the target

- renaming of the engine's "manual mode" to "cruise control", and "engines off" mode to "manual mode"

- JJFFE-style thruster control, coupled with throttle control of all thrusters (rather than all-or-nothing as per standard "engines off" mode - if the computer can throttle thrust, why can't the pilot? Are pilot and autopilot using separate solid vs liquid engines or something?)

- implementation of both selectable and automatic flight envelopes, from a variety of options. For instance, Elite-style handling is only physically possible within a low range of relative speeds, however in space there's no maximum speed, and injudicious throttle control will see inexperienced pilots quickly exceeding their optimum manoeuverability - which will be a function of their ships' retrothruster power compared to their mass (and mass distribution), over that of any opponent. Exceeding a given safe handling speed will leave you vulnerable and hand the opportunity to the opponent - especially if you can't outrun them or their weapons systems.

For example if fighting a smaller, lighter, higher-impulse craft, you'd want to be able to trade absolute speed for manoeuverability - going slower, but turning tighter. Against a larger ship, wider turns are more acceptable, allowing higher speeds.

Thus you'll have an optimal flight control envelope for any given scenario, and a maximum useful speed within that particular envelope and its respective reference frame. So you can still have an Elite-like speed indicator bar on the left of the console, except it'll have a green range, progressing into a red range. The speed could be limited artificially by the ship's computer, allowing classic spacebar-to-accelerate, slash-key-to-decelerate handling, instead of FE2's full-engine-power on-or-off handling, but should still allow the pilot to override the limits if they choose..

A simple two-axis graph could allow pilots to pre-set optimum envelopes for their current ship configuration and combat handling requirements, or, alternatively, these could be determined constantly and dynamically by the ship's computer - in which case the changes will be transparent to the player; a given amount of speed indicator bar will refer to a different speed range depending on the relative mass and engine power of an opponent. All the pilot needs to know however is whether they're at full power, half power or whatever, with the actual speeds being extraneous information.

This scheme allows relative acceleration to replace absolute speed as used in Elite, while maintaining the classic flight control style and conservation of momentum.

It might even be retro-causally invoked to explain the original Elite flightmodel..!
 
Freelancer was a game that I got into, and there are several points that FD MUST avoid, because it takes away from the soul of Elite.

Ships - in freelancer, there were strictly BETTER ships, and worse - a strictly BEST ships .

In elite, which is better? A Cobra Mark III or a Panther Clipper, a Tiger or an Eagle Mark III? None - they all have different purposes, and balance in one way or another.

What Freelancer has though was 'Weapon Levels', and only certain ships could fit certain weapon levels. And there was only some ships that could fit level 10 weapons, the Heavy Titan, Eagle etc. Which, by default, made them the best ships. All ships handled similarly, and all weapons fired similarly, just higher 'level' ones were a different colour and did more damage.

Unlike elite, where, in the right hands, an Eagle could take down a much bigger ship, and more powerful weapons has similarly faster overheat rates.

Everything should balance out in some way - either by performance, or a drawback, or cost: a web of technology, rather than a path.
 
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One thing I dont want to see is what happens in some games (X3 springs to mind) where a smaller ship can't even damage a bigger one as it can't carry a weapon big enough to dent the bigger ships shields....shields shouldn't negate 100% of all damage, even a smaller weapon should have some effect, even if it is a tiny effect
 
@ Cosmo Bozo
Thats why the Alpha and Beta testing will be very important, then balancing issues like that can be ironed out of the final build. You are correct of course, even the lowliest weapon should cause "some" level of damage :)
 
Not strictly dog fighting but possibly a precurser to it...

I think DB has confirmed we will have local jumping within systems. In the absence of jump lanes ala Freelancer, I presume to prevent a ship from jumping or even to set up some kind of jump disturbance to pull ships out of warp there would have to be some kind of warp disruption tech ships can deploy?
 
Not strictly dog fighting but possibly a precurser to it...

I think DB has confirmed we will have local jumping within systems. In the absence of jump lanes ala Freelancer, I presume to prevent a ship from jumping or even to set up some kind of jump disturbance to pull ships out of warp there would have to be some kind of warp disruption tech ships can deploy?

Mass locked?
 
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