Dogfighting tactics and maneuvers

[ErikNM]

As someone who's never played a flight-oriented game before, I'm learning dogfighting more or less from scratch. I've learned the basics and am getting used to the controls (I invested in HOTAS including pedals for Elite), but could use some advice on how to improve.

Every battle tends to go more or less like this: I open fire on the enemy until he flies past me, then I roll so that he's in a vertical position on the radar, while pitching until he's in sight again. While doing this I micromanage the power distribution based on the circumstances, and remain in the 'blue speed sweetspot' when changing directions. Rinse and repeat. It becomes rather robotic and monotone after a while.

I'd appreciate good advice on more advanced maneuvers to experiment with, or recommendations on instructional videos. My own experimentation has been inefficient so far, so I could use some direction. No doubt it'd be useful for others, as well. Thanks.

 

[Crixomix]

Try this, it takes some practice, but allows you to turn around on a dime.

You do this when the enemy craft is "jousting" you. Meaning that he's flying straight at you, and you at him. When he's about 1 second from impact. Turn FAoff, then hit FULL thrusters in both REVERSE and UP thrust while pitching UP. So the front of your nose should go UP, you should thrust to the REAR, and trust UP. As soon as you have rotated about 90-120 degrees, hit the FAon button and AFTERBURNER. It turns you around WAY faster and makes you stay on the enemies tail. It's awesome

 

[Glock_17]

Well it has litle to do with dogfighting from flightsims/arial combat. Since those are most about making trades in potential energy. (trading speed for altitude wich is later converted to speed again once you dive down on a opponent, for example)

For Elite it is more about applying and managing acceleration. For example using boost while in a loop will make flip over faster. Same can be done in more controlled fashion by briefly going from idle to max thrust.

You can also play around with vertical thrusters while in a loop to either make it tighter (thrust up) or making the loop wider (thrust down) wich can will slow your forward speed a bit and can place you in a better position to take a shot.

For example one trick i use to get a larger target to shoot at, is to come up behind someone with a faster speed and then apply down thrusters and using pitch (the stick back or forward) to keep my target in my sight.
Now if you do this right, you will end up pivoting around your target while placing belly/top shots. (think this was refered to as "halo-ing" in some SF i read, not sure wich one though)

Just practise that for a while and experiment with what changes to speed or thrust do and you will find that anacondas suddenly arent as tough anymore

And as Crixo hinted you can use assist off, to get pull of some insane fast spins once you apply some thrust

 

[Cooperman]

Try this, it takes some practice, but allows you to turn around on a dime.

You do this when the enemy craft is "jousting" you. Meaning that he's flying straight at you, and you at him. When he's about 1 second from impact. Turn FAoff, then hit FULL thrusters in both REVERSE and UP thrust while pitching UP. So the front of your nose should go UP, you should thrust to the REAR, and trust UP. As soon as you have rotated about 90-120 degrees, hit the FAon button and AFTERBURNER. It turns you around WAY faster and makes you stay on the enemies tail. It's awesome

this is sound advice thankyou Crixomix

 

[brumster]

Bar the trick mentioned above, and 50% vertical thrusting downwards while pulling up, there isn't really anything to it any more. There is no magical skill to it. You keep the speed in the blue zone, and you pull back on your joystick. If your ship is kitted out with the better equipment, you'll turn quicker and be on your target before he is on you. If you've not go the turn capability, then you're better playing the range game and boosting away, but this really demands that you have the weapons to reach out, and the skill to aim them. It's also about power management - 4 plips to engines will get you turning quicker, but at the expense of shield or weapon recharge... so you have to make that call on where your power is best spent.

It's saying something when an Anaconda can out-turn a Viper, but that's the way it is with upgrades... money talks, skill walks...

Forget any conceptions of blacking or redding out, or breaching the capabilities of your craft, like in a flight simulator. It's almost doable in a Viper on boost mid-turn, but not something you really need to worry about.

 

[Kicks]

What Crizomix has said is dead-on. I've been trying that exact thing this evening (and I'm currently mouse/keyboard). I rebound FAOff to a more accessible key, and when I pass an enemy, I can *almost* turn on a dime (my Viper isn't particularly well upgraded yet, I lost a substantial bit of cash having to suicide my Cobra in to a station because of the mission-cargo bug!!). It turns a random jousting experience in to something far more palatable.

Note: If you're in a fight with an NPC or PC, and they always seem to be behind you and no matter how much you cartwheel around you can't get him in your sights, chances are they're doing something like this.

Good luck!

 

[ErikNM]

Thanks, you've given me many interesting ideas to experiment with.

I've been practicing Crixomix's maneuver, and it makes a great deal of difference. Dogfights will definitely be much more intensive now.

I'll start working on some of the other suggestions tomorrow. They really got the wheels spinning, so now I'm eager to experiment with new ways to use the thrusters.

I've been trying that exact thing this evening (and I'm currently mouse/keyboard).

No, you're mouse/keyboard/cowbell. What command did you bind the cowbell to, cycle hostile ship or cycle subsystem perhaps?

 

[Toxic_Waster]

The tactic depends on the ship setup: close range vs long range and heavy tank vs high speed. These combinations dictate approach whether it's kiting (long range + speed), tailing (close range + speed), full charge (close range + tank) or stationary (long range + tank). Variations are possible. I personally find it working well for me when I rely on my tank and close range firepower I wait for the enemy to charge for me from distance and then go reverse with 50% less speed than opponent. By the time the opponent reaches me he is already popped. If executed poorly collision is possible.

PS: I could not fight with keyboard and mouse combo. I had to get the stick.

 

[Crixomix]

In this thread, the valid concern has been brought up that there aren't THAT many tricks. The one I posted is for sure useful, along with using some downward thrust whilst pitching up in a "turn battle"...

I was thinking to myself, why don't we have this problem in other games?

It's because mobility isn't an issue in most FPS games. I also thought about Chivalry, where positioning is huge. The main thing that keeps it interesting is the terrain. That's the problem in space. There is NO terrain in space. I think that things get MUCH more interesting in the Elite combat world as soon as you have to consider bigger stuff. Fights in/around space stations, floating debris, asteroids, etc. All of those things will introduce a slew of new tactics to make fights more interesting.

 

[brumster]

Exactly. Flight sims have gravity, wind, physical stresses on the airframe and pilot - lots of dynamics into the mix. Here, you're in a big open space.

Back in the early days of Alpha, I (not solely, I hasten to add) put forward the suggestion of G-related blackouts/redouts as an extra dynamic to make the combat a little more challenging/interesting. Mix it up a little, make combat something of a bit more depth. It's sort of in there, you might get a little red tickle in a Viper on full boost, but it's nothing that really kicks in strong and affects gameplay that much. I sometimes sense there is a reticence to do anything that would make the game difficult for 99% of players to master. Still, the flight model has had enough changes, and boy it went a lot worse than it is right now at one stage, so I'll make do... but like you say, Air Warrior in Space this isn't...

(Shame)