Hardware & Technical Dual Mongoose T50 RH/LH pair first impressions.

very interesting thread, please keep it up as i was planning to get me some of these (waiting for the throttle to be available later this month).

regarding surgery ... i remember reading on the site that the products have no user serviceable parts inside and opening them would void the warranty. did you get a special go-ahead from them??

one thing i'm eager to know about is the stick's precision, i.e. for aim. any comment on that? what about dead zones?

Super precise. I prefer it to my Warthog, as there is no stiction, just smooth movement. You can also tune the "centre" with the cam options. I use a "no centre detent" cam at the moment there is also soft centre and a hard centre cam option, plus change the tension settings of the springs, and the springs themselves can be changed (stiff, medium and soft), the Warthog has only the one, very hard centre, and very stiff spring.

Z...
 
Greetings chaps, have now had my Virpil T-50 sticks for a couple of days, and here are my first impressions:


The bad
There is a price to pay for being an early adopter, and some challenges should be expected. That said the following two issues are not major, and I have no doubt that VirPil will help me sort them out.

The first challenge came from the cam changing procedure, which is fairly fiddly. You have to take the base apart, and some of the bolts, like the ones holding the circuit board in place, are rather fiddly. If you have never disassembled anything before, don't start with these. In addition to that the bolts holding the cams in place are set with loctite from factory. Enough to cause me to strip the heads of two of them, before reading on their website that they now suggest to use heat prior to removing them. I got them all off in the end after a session with a hairdryer and a bit of work with some pliers. Thankfully VirPil have included a replacement set of bolts for the cams :)

In addition to the cam issues I also have the same problem as someone mentioned above here, with a couple of the hat switches not having the correct response. They work, but feel very mushy. My left hand stick is perfect, so the difference is quite obvious. Waiting to hear from VirPil regarding what to do about this.


The good - desk mounts
I got mounts for both sticks and for my Warthog throttle. They are rock solid, with very very little flex despite them being quite long. When flying they feel like they are completely solid. The screw mount is easy to use and allows for quick adjustment. I really can't think of anything negative to say about these, quality product.


The good - flight sticks
The quality of the moldings is great. The sticks feel really solid, and the buttons have a satisfying responsiveness. I have large hands (hand rest screwed all the way down), and these certainly don't feel like toys. The flip down trigger is easy to use, and the two-stage main trigger is crisp with a clear stop before the second stage.

The button placement will take some getting used to after having flown with a Warthog for a few years. The main hat switches and buttons are great, and the pinky finger button is well placed. The thumb button requires you to move your thumb to actuate it, as it isn't under your thumb where it would normally rest. This means I ended up using the pinky finger button for boost instead of the thumb button, as it is more natural to reach.

The analogue stick axis are brilliant. I have combined them to one axis using Universal Control Remapper, and have assigned them to thrust up and down in Elite. Graceful landings are brilliantly easy and fun :)


The good - gimbals
Once I had swapped from the stock cams (no center, stiff at the edges, great for flight sims) to the hard center cams (clear central detent, soft towards the edges) these things are a dream to use. The center bump is much like that on the Warthog, making it easy to rest your hands on the sticks without applying any input. The motion is smooth and the accuracy is superb! You can tweak the response from each axis by the already mentioned cam change, as well as changing springs, and adjusting the chosen springs with a screw. Do note though that the hard center cam adds a slight "clacking" noise as you pass the center of the axis. About twice as loud as what the Warthog makes.

The quality of the internal components appears to be very good. The things feel solid, as does the motion of the stick.

These sticks are a fair bit longer than the Warthog, meaning that the motion is less wrist based, and more shoulder based. This will take some getting used to, as I keep trying to rotate the sticks forward with my wrist instead of just pushing them forward with my entire arm. A few more hours of play and I'm sure I will get used to it though!


Summary
Great product! Some teething problems, but I think these will last me a long time. I reckon VirPil will be a force to be reckoned with in the high end flight sim market!

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New software released:
Cyph3r said:
►VPC Configurator Light Software Release

The VPC Configurator Light software is now available for download!

VPCConfigLight_02.png


This is the basic version of the VPC Configurator software, designed to allow for precise calibration and tweaking of the axes found on the VPC MongoosT-50 Flightstick, as well as allowing firmware updates to add more features, fixes and compatibility with future grips.

Click Here to Download

The user guide can be found here:
VPC Configurator Light - User Guide

We are continuing to develop the full version of the VPC Configurator software which will include features such as shift states, mode creation, button mapping and more.

Stay tuned for more news soon!
Z...
 
Bindings problems

Is anyone having problems setting up the bindings on the T-50? I can set things in options>controls but when I re-open the bindings nothing of the T-50 bindings appear, and if you save new bindings the non appearing bindings are deleted. Net result I have to do all the bindings at once, or edit the XML file manually. A typical Thrustmaster XML line is

<Binding Device="ThrustMasterWarthogThrottle" Key="Joy_RZAxis" />

but a T-50 line looks like

<Binding Device="03EB2043" Key="Joy_XAxis" />

The name of the device doesn't appear just the vendor and device ID, 03EB=Virpil 2043=MongooseT-50. The stick works brilliantly but this is driving me crazy. Thanks for any comments.
 
Is anyone having problems setting up the bindings on the T-50? I can set things in options>controls but when I re-open the bindings nothing of the T-50 bindings appear, and if you save new bindings the non appearing bindings are deleted. Net result I have to do all the bindings at once, or edit the XML file manually. A typical Thrustmaster XML line is

<Binding Device="ThrustMasterWarthogThrottle" Key="Joy_RZAxis" />

but a T-50 line looks like

<Binding Device="03EB2043" Key="Joy_XAxis" />

The name of the device doesn't appear just the vendor and device ID, 03EB=Virpil 2043=MongooseT-50. The stick works brilliantly but this is driving me crazy. Thanks for any comments.

Actually, I had this issue for a while with my Warthog. No idea how I sorted it, but I think it involved a re-install of ED.

My rig in SE Asia has been running the T50 for a while with no issues, I brought it back to Aus to mess about with creating a mount for my office chair, though forgot to bring a copy of my bindings file, so have not been motivated to plug it in. I may give it a test run int he next few days if I get a chance, though, as I said, I had this happen previously with my Warthog. Try using different USB ports - I find ED really lacks in dealing with bindings management (having to go into windows and dive through 30 layers of folders to back up bindings is not good bindings management.)
Z...
 
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I’ve flown about 10-20 hours on my VirPil’s st the moment and am starting to get used to them. I miss the fluency I had with my throttle and analogue thumbstick and I miss the thumb hats and just basically the number of hats I had before on my X65F.

It feels crappy coming in for hard landings and shieldless landings turn me into a quivering wreck.

Still, I’ve gone back to my old vulture from 2015, with fixed beam/cannon to get some hard training in.

I also took the opportunity to look at my bindings and despite there being fewer controls, I no longer use voice attack or any keys on my keyboard.

Everything is controlled from the joysticks.

I use the left secondary trigger as a shift for general controls and navigation and the left primary trigger as a shift key for fighter and wing commands.

This gives me plenty of leeway without recourse to any third party software.

I am currently using the finger brakes as throttle up and throttle down. Digitally, but will look to combine them into one analogue axis at some point.

My bindings are as follows.

Right joystick:
Axes: Yaw and pitch.
primary tgr grp 1 fire UI Enter
Pinky button grp 2 fire UI Exit (thumb trigger takes thumb away from hats.. useless in combat. )
POV select ahead, threats... UI selection.
Middle hat : select next previous targets
Top hat : lights cargo scoop hard points.

Left joystick
All stuff used during close combat to keep right hand free to concentrate.
Axes: Vertical-horizontal thrust
Primary trigger - shift key with Hats for SLF and wingman commands.
Secondary. Trigger - navigation and system shift - supercruise, system map etc.
POV - pips.
Bottom hat: speed presets. 0-50-75-100
Top hat - L/R fire group, U/D subsystem selection (I can continue to aim ship while selecting subsystem target)
Top hat - other stuff.
Left side index finger rocker - sensor zoom
Assorted thumb buttons : chaff, heat sink, shield cell.

Still a WIP but getting there.
 
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Left joystick
All stuff used during close combat to keep right hand free to concentrate.

Hmm, that makes a lot of sense... man, and I just started getting used to my current control setup, might have to re-bind everything this weekend!
 
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My bindings are as follows.

Right joystick:
Axes: Yaw and pitch.
primary tgr grp 1 fire UI Enter
Pinky button grp 2 fire UI Exit (thumb trigger takes thumb away from hats.. useless in combat. )
POV select ahead, threats... UI selection.
Middle hat : select next previous targets
Top hat : lights cargo scoop hard points.

Left joystick
All stuff used during close combat to keep right hand free to concentrate.
Axes: Vertical-horizontal thrust
Primary trigger - shift key with Hats for SLF and wingman commands.
Secondary. Trigger - navigation and system shift - supercruise, system map etc.
POV - pips.
Bottom hat: speed presets. 0-50-75-100
Top hat - L/R fire group, U/D subsystem selection (I can continue to aim ship while selecting subsystem target)
Top hat - other stuff.
Left side index finger rocker - sensor zoom
Assorted thumb buttons : chaff, heat sink, shield cell.

Still a WIP but getting there.
What about thrusters? I have vertical and horiz on left POV and pips on right POV. Forward and backwards thrusters are on the levers. They can also work as throttles in normal space, though I have throttle on the left y-axis. For traveling, I have 100%, 75%, 50% and 0% on the left upper hat.

I have yaw on the left with the throttle (mode 2) because that's the way I always flew r/c. What's the general consensus on which side the yaw should go?
 
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What about thrusters? I have vertical and horiz on left POV and pips on right POV. Forward and backwards thrusters are on the levers. They can also work as throttles in normal space, though I have throttle on the left y-axis. For traveling, I have 100%, 75%, 50% and 0% on the left upper hat.

I have yaw on the left with the throttle (mode 2) because that's the way I always flew r/c. What's the general consensus on which side the yaw should go?

He has dual sticks - I'd assume one stick would be dedicated to thrusters (which is the whole point of going dual sticks. throttle isn't as crucial as thrusters - you can set throttle to 75% and pretty much leave it there for 90% of the time.

I'm using a CH Pro throttle, which has a reasonable analog thumbstick for the purpose. I'm looking forward tot he Virpil throttle though, for a magnetic sensor analog thumbstick...

Z...
 
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A word of warning when using dual Virpil sticks. I pressed the launch button and became aware that my thrusters weren't working. I managed to get out of the station using pitch and yaw. once outside, I tried to find out what was wrong. I tried unplugging and re-inserting the USB connectors, but that switched on silent running and my ship started to overheat. All the buttons didn't do what they should, so I could't deploy a heatsink nor switch off silent running. The only thing I could do was log off, and it was a very long weight while I could see my temperature approaching 300 deg.

After logging off, I tested all the controls in the Windows test panel, which showed everything working properly. I unplugged and re-inserted the USB connectors one more time, tested again then restarted the launcher and the game in the training missions. Everything was OK, so I was able to restat in normal mode, where everything was fixed. The only downside was a 250k bill to repace the burnt parts of my Anaconda.

I think that what happened was that the buttons got swapped by the game from left to right after I accidentally pulled the USB cable a bit to make it temporarily lose connection. The problem is that the left and right buttons/axes have the same designations, so the game must get them mixed up in some scenarios.
 
A word of warning when using dual Virpil sticks. I pressed the launch button and became aware that my thrusters weren't working. I managed to get out of the station using pitch and yaw. once outside, I tried to find out what was wrong. I tried unplugging and re-inserting the USB connectors, but that switched on silent running and my ship started to overheat. All the buttons didn't do what they should, so I could't deploy a heatsink nor switch off silent running. The only thing I could do was log off, and it was a very long weight while I could see my temperature approaching 300 deg.

After logging off, I tested all the controls in the Windows test panel, which showed everything working properly. I unplugged and re-inserted the USB connectors one more time, tested again then restarted the launcher and the game in the training missions. Everything was OK, so I was able to restart in normal mode, where everything was fixed. The only downside was a 250k bill to replace the burnt parts of my Anaconda.

I think that what happened was that the buttons got swapped by the game from left to right after I accidentally pulled the USB cable a bit to make it temporarily lose connection. The problem is that the left and right buttons/axes have the same designations, so the game must get them mixed up in some scenarios.

Don't use anything windows to configure the stick - it has been shown to make things go wrong.

Did you see my post re the light version of the software being released? May be worth downloading for testing/calibration purposes.

Also, be careful plugging/unplugging anything bound to ED. Sadly, this game has very poorly thought out in game bindings management, and bindings have a habit of just "vanishing". I'd had to re-bind my previous sticks more often than I care to remember, with even the back ups achieving nothing at times. It seems to vary by system, but mine is *really* picky about every controller *always* being plugged into the exact same USB port it was bound with.

Of course, I won't go into the navigation through 30 layers of folders just to back up a bindings file...

Z...
 
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