[dumb question] Vive 'hacks' supporting OH - what's the problem?

CATPAIN KIRK

CATPAIN KIRK
I've been wondering why Oculus deem user-made modifications to make a Vive run OH games as "hacks" and are actively trying to prevent them.
I'd be grateful if anyone working in marketing could explain.

Oculus claimed they sell the HMD itself close to production cost, so no profit from hardware sales.

The next logical assumption would have been to assume they want to make profit from OH game sales. Now if that was the case they should be rather grateful for those 'hacks', because people using them would still be forced to OH exclusivity in regards to buying their OH exclusives.

Considering they can't produce their headsets as announced, Oculus should deem themselves lucky Vive users are able to play and thus buy OH games due to those "hacks".


As officially announced, they don't want that, so it's not about OH game sales.

So what's left? Zuck's obsession with trying to get a Selfie of everyone's private parts?

Is it really worth destroying VR with exclusives over the latter from a marketing perspective?

Please explain.
 
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Slopey

Volunteer Moderator
Slopey
I think it's quite simple. They provide a free, proprietary experience for users of their hardware. Users of other hardware have found a way to access that. That's not good.

Remember that with any trademark/IP/copyright sort of law, you have to be seen to defend it.

TBH, the Rift experience is way way nicer than the Vive which rams Steam purchases down your throat. Ok, the Vive is more functional, but for my money, the Rift is a nicer interface. I can see why they want it Rift only.
 

CATPAIN KIRK

CATPAIN KIRK
See - that's the point I'm wondering about. Why isn't that good?

They're limiting their software sales. Granted, profits from those are currently irrelevant to a company with facebooks revenue and they might be pushing for an early advantage over their competitors. However they don't use any crucial, patented technology. Anyone can build HMDs just as anyone can build PC Hardware or Smartphones.

That's why Windows and Android control over 80% of their respective markets, not Apple.

I don't have a CV1 or Vive yet, but testing OH and SteamVR using the DK2 I found Steam to be far less intrusive than OH.
 
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CMDR d00nicus

C
At a guess, I'd say that they want to avoid people with non Oculus headsets from buying in the OH store at all costs. It'd be fine if it was purely a launcher, but if a Vive user gets into their store, buys something, and then has an issue, they may end up in an awkward position legally - especially outside of the US where trade laws can be a lot stricter, and bind the retailer to offer certain minimum levels of after sales support (regardless of any EULA disclaimers)

It also means that if a significant number of users use this hack, that either they have to start officially supporting both headsets, or they risk the scenario that a change down the road unintentionally breaks support - cutting off a potentially large group of people from being able to access the games they may have bought on OH.

Either way, both scenarios lead to unwanted risk, expense and legal problems unless Oculus choose to build and support access for the Vive on an official basis, with all of the associated time and money that may take.
 

CATPAIN KIRK

CATPAIN KIRK
CMDR d00nicus said:
At a guess, I'd say that they want to avoid people with non Oculus headsets from buying in the OH store at all costs. It'd be fine if it was purely a launcher, but if a Vive user gets into their store, buys something, and then has an issue, they may end up in an awkward position legally - especially outside of the US where trade laws can be a lot stricter, and bind the retailer to offer certain minimum levels of after sales support (regardless of any EULA disclaimers)

It also means that if a significant number of users use this hack, that either they have to start officially supporting both headsets, or they risk the scenario that a change down the road unintentionally breaks support - cutting off a potentially large group of people from being able to access the games they may have bought on OH.

Either way, both scenarios lead to unwanted risk, expense and legal problems unless Oculus choose to build and support access for the Vive on an official basis, with all of the associated time and money that may take.
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Good points, however a "Use at your own risk and no liability when using third party hardware" clause would easily solve the issue under EU law. The "no refund" stipulation in their TOS directly conflicts with EU law anyway as you can annul any purchase within 14 days without providing any reason. If I want a refund, the fact if I own a Rift, Vive or no HMD at all is none of their business.

Within the EU, their TOS is null and void in that regard as numerous precedents have shown. Valve already learned that the hard way.

I personally won't cause any trouble because one of the main reasons I opted for a Vive is the fact that OH TOS offend EU and national law as well as common decency, so I don't want it installed on my computer. If I had a Vive and was willing to use OH, I'd just buy, see if it works on the Vive and if it doesn't, I'll revoke.

And there's nothing FB can do about it.
 
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vanfanel

V
They are not actively trying to prevent this. Where did you read that?

The only thing they ever said was that they don't condone this use. There will be vive users that will be purchasing rift titles. Oculus wants to make it very clear that they do so at their own risk and are not responsible if a game stops working or the hack does something else unexpected. They shouldn't expect a refund for these titles or any type of support if it fails.
 

shadragon

shadragon
Slopey said:
I think it's quite simple. They provide a free, proprietary experience for users of their hardware. Users of other hardware have found a way to access that. That's not good.

Remember that with any trademark/IP/copyright sort of law, you have to be seen to defend it.

TBH, the Rift experience is way way nicer than the Vive which rams Steam purchases down your throat. Ok, the Vive is more functional, but for my money, the Rift is a nicer interface. I can see why they want it Rift only.
Click to expand...
Or establishing a monopoly. Tomato - tomato. :)

I can't disagree with your observation, but I mentally added the word today in places. The Vive has issues, but they will be solved in time.
 

Bakkster

B
Slopey said:
Remember that with any trademark/IP/copyright sort of law, you have to be seen to defend it.
Click to expand...

Trademark is the only one that behaves this way, known as trademark erosion (kleenex, escalator, thermos, vaseline, and flip phone all used to be trademarks). No such requirement exists for copyright or patent (though you might find similar for trade secrets).

vanfanel said:
They are not actively trying to prevent this. Where did you read that?

The only thing they ever said was that they don't condone this use. There will be vive users that will be purchasing rift titles. Oculus wants to make it very clear that they do so at their own risk and are not responsible if a game stops working or the hack does something else unexpected. They shouldn't expect a refund for these titles or any type of support if it fails.
Click to expand...

I think the confusion is that this was specifically about Lucky's Tale and Dreamdeck. Luckey has, in the past, said he doesn't care if people who buy their games on Oculus Home modify them to work for other headsets. The key word is buy, and nobody buys Lucky's Tale or Dreamdeck because they come free with Home.

So, if you modded something you bought from their store to work on Vive now, they'd be OK with it because they still got their cut of the sale. The issue here is that Oculus made no money by you downloading their free first-party software for a rival HMD.
 

Lupin

Lupin
I would EXPECT Oculus to have the advantage AT THE MOMENT, as it has been available for longer.
But to make software that only works on one VR system is financial suicide.

One of the reason I got Vive, as it is supported by Steam (Software delveloper). Not Facebook.

 

CATPAIN KIRK

CATPAIN KIRK
vanfanel said:
They are not actively trying to prevent this. Where did you read that?

The only thing they ever said was that they don't condone this use. There will be vive users that will be purchasing rift titles. Oculus wants to make it very clear that they do so at their own risk and are not responsible if a game stops working or the hack does something else unexpected. They shouldn't expect a refund for these titles or any type of support if it fails.
Click to expand...

Github
Unfortunately Oculus has implemented a Code Signing check on the Runtime DLLs, therefore the Revive DLLs cannot be used unless the application is patched.
Click to expand...
 
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