ED Community Involvement VS EvE's

[Bitler]

I Honestly Thought FD was doing a good job of keeping the community active making us all feel like we had a part in the universe and everything, that is untill i saw this video. vvvvvvv

[video=youtube;gEO-Gc-VKV4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEO-Gc-VKV4[/video]

if your one of "those" type of forum goers and see the name "eve" and immediately vomit , let me do you a solid and save you a click on that video, basicly the video is about how 1 dude boned over the biggest player group , stealing all of there stuff (ships,money,ect) and thus ending a war between two player factions. The one dude that did all of this was indeed a turn coat.,




i have never played eve and this moved me some how, made me realize that we the CMDRS really dont have a say in the ED universe, we try to stop a CG , FD says "na boi cg's arnt ment to be stoped by a few players" , we try to take over some fed system and fd be like "nope"

this is something eve obviously dose alot better than ED, and its not the games fault, its the tracks the devs force us to follow

 

[Zieman]

EVE = everything is player driven
E: D = players are small cogs in an enormous machine

Some like EVE style better, some like E: D style better.

Whichever way you lean, please let each game be the way they are!

 

[Flimley]

Looks like you have found yourself a new game to play.

Flimley

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I too read about this earlier today and honestly my reaction was the opposite.
Who on Earth wants a guild system when there are so many adults acting like spoilt children? What kind of person wants to play a game where another human potentially a long way away can literally take enjoyment away from them?
Who would want to play a game where I could move you from owning all 32 ships in game fully A rated and engineered with 5 billion creditis in the bank back to a sidewinder. I'd bet most people would ragequit and never come back, I'd not be surprised if several of those in that Eve group have done so after that. Honestly sounds like something I'd be prepared to walk away from Elite because of should they change their mind and go that direction.

The whole thing just makes me glad that Frontier try not to copy other games. Honestly, the number of people saying that FDev should be making "Eve first person mode" really bothers me. I don't hate the game per-say, I hate the gamers and the culture around it... But then again I am a jaded misanthrope
Also Eve and Eve Valkyrie both exist, lets allow FDev to make Frontier, if it does well maybe Eve will make their own first person mode.

 

[Apos]

I'd settle for a comfortable medium.

The opposite extreme where players achieve something big and FD completely ignore it because it doesn't fit their narrative, despite them selling the game as a "player driven galaxy", isn't healthy either.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

The Judge is my new favourite person. LOL

 

[damon8r351]

Seeing the type of seediness former Eve players can bring into Elite, I can say no thanks with zero hesitation.

 

[Cosmos]

I Honestly Thought FD was doing a good job of keeping the community active making us all feel like we had a part in the universe and everything, that is untill i saw this video. vvvvvvv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEO-Gc-VKV4

if your one of "those" type of forum goers and see the name "eve" and immediately vomit , let me do you a solid and save you a click on that video, basicly the video is about how 1 dude boned over the biggest player group , stealing all of there stuff (ships,money,ect) and thus ending a war between two player factions. The one dude that did all of this was indeed a turn coat.,




i have never played eve and this moved me some how, made me realize that we the CMDRS really dont have a say in the ED universe, we try to stop a CG , FD says "na boi cg's arnt ment to be stoped by a few players" , we try to take over some fed system and fd be like "nope"

this is something eve obviously dose alot better than ED, and its not the games fault, its the tracks the devs force us to follow

I tried to get into EvE back in the day several times but it wasnt for me but I do keep an eye on it. The machinations are jaw dropping and I love hearing about all the drama. It does seem like a spectacular tragedy of guile and strategy. Its a bit extreme and unfair in this case though.. I happen to think everything should really remain in game.

EvE so far far as I can tell as become an entity which no longer exists in the player scape but one that is intertwined with real life.

Its certainly entertaining to read these stories but I do wonder if it goes too far. Nevertheless it is extremely interesting and revealing. IMO the bans were a bit extreme,, CCP needs to get a grip, I'd probably have said the same things myself fin the heat of the moment.

 

[Demascus]

The betrayal, backstabbing and swindling are what some love about Eve. Spys within spys, double/triple agents and all fair game in Eve. It is a 2nd job though.

 

[Loskene]

EVE = everything is player driven
E: D = players are small cogs in an enormous machine

Some like EVE style better, some like E: D style better.

Whichever way you lean, please let each game be the way they are!

Actually in both games the players are cogs in the machine. The only difference is the EVE machine actually moves when the cogs start turning. In ED the cogs have no teeth, spin all they like they can never affect the cog right next to them, let alone the rest of the machine.

You can say which one you prefer, but you cannot argue which one is a better mechanism for emergent gameplay and dynamic storytelling.

I've never even played EVE (not a fan of spreadsheets in space) and even I know of the kind of stories the player interactions in that game has produced. I can't recall a single story of similar note from this game. Nothing unexpected happens here because nothing unexpected can happen, by design. We are cogs with no teeth, we have no say in how the machine moves.

 

[Valethar]

Apples and oranges. That sort of interaction just isn't possible here, the games aren't similar enough for those mechanics, etc..

Might as well compare ED to WoW or ESO. They're closer to EVE than ED will ever be.

 

[Bitler]

Apples and oranges. That sort of interaction just isn't possible here, the games aren't similar enough for those mechanics, etc..

Might as well compare ED to WoW or ESO. They're closer to EVE than ED will ever be.

thats were you are wrong kido-

its possible, and is happening to a smaller degree, there is just no point to haveing spies in other groups in elite, mean what you going to do rat out on a exploit your group is keeping hush hush?

the only reason its not a thing in elite is because FD really didnt focus on it in the begging, and eve is alot older than ED, so its more "evolved" right now

 

[Bitler]

I too read about this earlier today and honestly my reaction was the opposite.
Who on Earth wants a guild system when there are so many adults acting like spoilt children? What kind of person wants to play a game where another human potentially a long way away can literally take enjoyment away from them?
Who would want to play a game where I could move you from owning all 32 ships in game fully A rated and engineered with 5 billion creditis in the bank back to a sidewinder. I'd bet most people would ragequit and never come back, I'd not be surprised if several of those in that Eve group have done so after that. Honestly sounds like something I'd be prepared to walk away from Elite because of should they change their mind and go that direction.

The whole thing just makes me glad that Frontier try not to copy other games. Honestly, the number of people saying that FDev should be making "Eve first person mode" really bothers me. I don't hate the game per-say, I hate the gamers and the culture around it... But then again I am a jaded misanthrope
Also Eve and Eve Valkyrie both exist, lets allow FDev to make Frontier, if it does well maybe Eve will make their own first person mode.

think of it this way, no one is forceing you to take part in the "backstabery treachery" that is life, you could go be a simple trader while factions kill each other ,

plus you cant deny this type of thing happens in real life all the time ,

NTM 90% of ED is basicly upgraded eve,

 

[CMDR Harada]

The betrayal, backstabbing and swindling are what some love about Eve. Spys within spys, double/triple agents and all fair game in Eve. It is a 2nd job though.

Same here. I love the stories, the betrayals, horrific fights.. but.. I play these games to escape reality, have a good time, blow off some steam and relax. I don't want to log in, pacify guild members, bribe team officers, and all that other stuff.

But, I wouldn't mind SOME of it in ED..... a little bit.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

Hm, let's see...

We did have at least one similar event, but that was carried out by Frontier
Ours went down ELITE history as The Great Betrayal of Kaushpoos.

But it kinda matches ELITE, where absoutely nothing is Player-driven but everything has to be bolted firmly to the central narration. Deviations have to be Frontier-approved.
(but at least i.e. with Jaques, they occasionally do take Player actions into account - even if they have to be proven outside the Game in order to be even recognized)

We are just spectators moving along with whatever they come up with.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

EvE : executive control game

Elite: isn't


Simples.

 

[verminstar]

Eve and elite are two very different things...cant compare chalk and cheese and both games do things in very different ways.

Ive been gone a long time now and Im still an 8 year ex player. Eve was where I took my love of pvp to a whole new level after killing everyone in freelancer...ye think ye know salt farmers and narcisism in elite?

Ye know nothing Jon Snow :x

Two completely different games played fer completely different reasons. When it comes to freedom of choice and the ability to truly influence others, then eve wins hands down. Players control everything and can influence everything...eve is a sandpit with no boundaries and very few rules that cant be bent by the actions of players.

Elite on the other hand is a sandpit with boundaries...players control very little and influence, on an individual level, even less. This is a fundamental part of its design as there are three modes of play in elite which all share the same universe. The economy is npc with low level player influence at best and players trading amongst themselves doesnt exist. Corporations and alliances dont exist and large areas of space cannot be controlled by players alone.

When ye really compare the two, ye start thinking that one doesnt have the total freedom of choice in elite as one thinks they have. Can one build a station in elite and control who can dock at it? Can capitol ships be built by player corporations? Ships so massive, they need multple players in multiple locations just to move it around? Can a privateer build their own little hideaway out in the wilderness and leave structures that persist fer years?

Ye think fer a moment frontier would allow players to have that much influence and freedom in this game?

 

[Louis Calvert]

I Honestly Thought FD was doing a good job of keeping the community active making us all feel like we had a part in the universe and everything, that is untill i saw this video. vvvvvvv

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEO-Gc-VKV4

if your one of "those" type of forum goers and see the name "eve" and immediately vomit , let me do you a solid and save you a click on that video, basicly the video is about how 1 dude boned over the biggest player group , stealing all of there stuff (ships,money,ect) and thus ending a war between two player factions. The one dude that did all of this was indeed a turn coat.,

i have never played eve and this moved me some how, made me realize that we the CMDRS really dont have a say in the ED universe, we try to stop a CG , FD says "na boi cg's arnt ment to be stoped by a few players" , we try to take over some fed system and fd be like "nope"

this is something eve obviously dose alot better than ED, and its not the games fault, its the tracks the devs force us to follow

I played EvE for 11 years, I disagree with your point.

EvE is very good for the "stories" because it has very few rules. It doesn't protect people from stupidity and most elements of the game involve trusting other people, which leaves a lot open to scamming and stealing. It's very good game design in terms of encouraging people to steal, lie and cheat each other. Ironically it's harder to actually co-operate than cheat and kill people lol. So it's great for PvP and makes great stories.

But! Don't mistake that for the same as "the players having a say in the universe". They don't. The universe is virtually the same as it was in 2004. The NPC stuff is literally the same. The NPC factions never evolve, they're always locked in a cold war and are pretty much irrelevant, etc, etc. There has been some new content added, like the Wormholes and the new Drifters, but that's mostly just a different environment to facilitate a different flavour of PvP. The players have zero influence on any of it.

The "player driven" content is the same stuff going round and round and round because it's PvP based off the same capture the flag mechanics. I took part in several wars that spanned the galaxy (I was in Goons for ages). Those wars are great fun... at first... then you realise it's the same thing over and over and over. there is no player development of anything.

If you want a PvP 3rd person space game that's really good, that's EvE.

Elite is a game that's telling a story in real-time, the world evolves, expands, stuff the players do gets rolled into the narrative. the CG's are just a small part of one thing in a much larger complex system that's really impressive. EvE has nothing like that at all. EvE is what, 12 years old now and you could show it to me back in 2004 and once I'd got over the amazing new graphics and a few updated systems, I'd have probably been really disappointed it's basically the exact same game.

Elite is barely 3 years old. I can't honestly imagine that in another 10 years Elite will be the same as it is now just with prettier graphics and few more ships - I wouldn't at all be surprised if Elite spans more than one full galaxy, you can leave your ship and walk around, build bases and stations, maybe even control entire planets in some management system, I can imagine it'll have hundreds of ships, and a living breathing history of stories that are both player driven and epic stories created by the devs to evolve the universe. I imagine the Thargoid conflict will evolve and change, the devs have already hinted that player interactions will determine what happens.

Apples and Oranges really.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

Seeing the type of seediness former Eve players can bring into Elite, I can say no thanks with zero hesitation.

The Judge is normally a pretty standup guy from what I know about him; problem came about because GigX did something that didn't sit well with The Judge - sometimes, for some people, all it takes is that one last bad call to think maybe it's time to topple the head of an organisation. Everyone seems to think that a majority percentage of Eve players are all sociopaths and they play the game just to act like this. That's about as far from the truth as it can be. In truth, a good portion of these sorts of events are earned or otherwise the retaliation to previous ingame events. In a game where losses and other such behaviour has a real money value - codes of conduct within a corp or alliance are more important than in a game whereby a death or bad decision has little impact on anything at all.

As far as the "seediness" of Eve players in ED, well there are also those who just want to be the bad guy, Eve Online helped that flourish - and now they can't turn it off (or don't want to). I can't prove it obviously but my personal theory is that a good portion of CODE and Smiling Dog Crew are all current or former Eve players - along with all the random players who have a playstyle that could be labelled as "griefing".

ED was until recently the only viable space type game I am aware of with multiplayer that has the 1st person *fly your own ship* perspective so lacking from Eve Online, which is what I think brought them here. There's another more conspiracy style theory but i'll save that for later (or PM me).

But that's by the by.

The OP's comment is about the fact that while pretty monumental, and far too much for a game like ED, this event highlighted for him the almost complete lack of real intertaction with the BGS.

ED was sold as having a dynamic economy. Where is it?

The powerplay system is also nowhere near as effective as it was touted to be, and that's when a good portion of the playerbase were actively participating, which they are not now.

2.4 and Thargoids holds the next hope of interaction with the BGS, but it's still only 1 out of 3 so far.

CG's are not permanent interaction, they are essentially prolonged missions. When there's a CG for a particular commodity, do the prices of said commodity spike in local systems nearby? Do they "run out of stock"? Do these CG's occur naturally on thier own based on some random algorithm? No FDev manually create them, and more importantly PROLONG them if they are "completed" too quickly. There's nothing random or natural about any of it.

In Eve Online Wormholes appear totally randomly according to a set of rules - mainly about the size and class. But apart from that - NO ONE, NOT EVEN CCP knows where the exit points will appear, and which two systems it will link. There is a famous corp who are pretty deadly who live inside one particular wormhole (it's complicated, don't ask) who basically every 24/48 hours or so get a different "front door" to a random system, even THEY don't have a clue where it's going to be and they LIVE INSIDE IT.

What I'm saying is there are ways to write a set of code for particular events in a game and then just *set it free and see what happens* - and this is why so MANY MANY MANY PEOPLE who play games refer to Eve Online as the blueprint. Even though Elite invented the genre, Eve Online is setting a great many of the expectations that players look for nowadays.

Any game developer that disregards the gaming community is more sophisticated than it used to be, is very unwise.

 

[NW3]

If I wanted to play EvE, I would. I don't (especially when betrayals like this occur); instead, I play ED. I don't want ED to incorporate stuff like this; it would ruin the game for me.