ED: from slow food to fast food

[Deleted member 251664]

Just a thought I wanted to share, ignore me if you do not agree.
I think it is truly unfortunate that the increased popularity of this game has caused the developers to completely steer from the "create placeholder and expand on it to provide depth" mentality to an average fast consumption consumer dictated macburger.

 

[Nasc]

 

[Winterwalker]

But I want all the stuffs now now now!

I often think the community ought to be careful what it wishes for as - after a ton of bawling - it currently looks like we'll be getting, Elite : Fleet Carriers Everywhere.

It's a fine line and actually I think the devs at least try to pull in the direction of keeping the game challenging but we've seen what the vocals did to Star Wars, trashing the ethical challenges The Last Jedi presented .. and giving us the Rise of Skywalker! (OMG)

I'm not saying that's happened to ED yet but devs have to pay the bills so yeah, be careful what you wish for.

 

[Rubbernuke]

Its not all bad...

 

[Deleted member 251664]

Its not all bad...

View attachment 169925

Kumoburgers are a delicacy, nothing like macfastgrind

 

[Reggit]

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[Deleted member 38366]

Do I understand the OP right : "a pity they changed their minds and will change the Fleet Carrier mechanics" ?

To me, the original Fleet Carrier plan looked like this :

 

[Deleted member 251664]

Do I understand the OP right : "a pity they changed their minds and will change the Fleet Carrier mechanics" ?

To me, the original Fleet Carrier plan looked like this :

no, the correct interpretation is "a pity they are dumbing down ED because original concepts are flawed and players' demands are mostly based on instant gratification and convenience instead of gameplay"

 

[nanite2000]

no, the correct interpretation is "a pity they are dumbing down ED because original concepts are flawed and players' demands are mostly based on instant gratification and convenience instead of gameplay"

For example...?

 

[Winterwalker]

For example...?

For example:

Fund your Explorer Fleet Carrier with Honk and Scoop (Universal Cartographics) now ... or ... petition for a buff in new trait Codex and rediscovery credits, plus for more things to find while exploring ON planets, future.

The idea that tagging first discovery on bodies, while gameplay requires little or no attention to the fine detail of materials, composition or geological features of the planets themselves, counts as "exploring" .. seems pretty last year to me and certainly not "end game".

 

[Vasco Sapien]

no, the correct interpretation is "a pity they are dumbing down ED because original concepts are flawed and players' demands are mostly based on instant gratification and convenience instead of gameplay"

I wanted FC's to be challenging, i liked the idea of them being a business that required me to invest some time into running well.
The first FC huge running costs didnt apply to this idea because it just made the FC's complete money pits.
Now i wonder if the new costs have gone to far in the other direction and Frontier are once again pandering to low bar gameplay.

But then the functions and features on FC's are not terribly deep, so i think i will just put my romance to bed at this point. Im kinda numb now when it come to this games design flip flopping.

 

[nanite2000]

For example:

Fund your Explorer Fleet Carrier with Honk and Scoop (Universal Cartographics) now ... or ... petition for a buff in new trait Codex and rediscovery credits, plus for more things to find while exploring ON planets, future.

The idea that tagging first discovery on bodies, while gameplay requires little or no attention to the fine detail of materials, composition or geological features of the planets themselves, counts as "exploring" .. seems pretty last year to me and certainly not "end game".

Errr...I'm not sure the 2 are comparable. I don't think the level of effort required to add UC to Fleet Carriers is anywhere near the level of effort required to develop a new discovery mechanic on top the already new exploration discovery mechanics (FSS, DSS, Codex, etc...).

Are you saying FDev should not have implemented ay improvements to FC's after Beta 1 and instead should have focused their effort on a completely different gameplay mechanic altogether?

 

[myothershipisacobraiv]

lemme just

advocate for a game wasting my time.

macs are designed by food engineers working on criteria of mass palatability and profitable economics, very much not consumer dictated.

 

[Northpin]

yep, i too think they went a bit too far with the upkeep reduction.
adding the UC just made things even worse

edit: Carrierswill clutter not only the bubble, but also the most iconic POIs in the galaxy

 

[Winterwalker]

Are you saying FDev should not have implemented ay improvements to FC's after Beta 1 and instead should have focused their effort on a completely different gameplay mechanic altogether?

No, the Codex discovery system is already implemented (in your right panel)

If that had been chosen - instead of UC - new dots in your Codex would just need to pay a bit more (same system, different number). My guess (on Beta 1) was x1000, so rediscovery of a trait already in your Codex would pay 2.5 million, meaning 5 or six sites a week meets upkeep .. and with new traits (which are rarer but refresh when you move to a new sector) paying a bonus of 10 million.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

no, the correct interpretation is "a pity they are dumbing down ED because original concepts are flawed and players' demands are mostly based on instant gratification and convenience instead of gameplay"

Anything specific that caused you to lament that at this point (my assumption was the recent Carrier Beta) ?

Or did something else recently changed that you find went wrong?
(otherwise I could only assume you mean original DDF concepts vs. realized content, to which I'd probably agree in many point)

 

[Deleted member 251664]

Anything specific that caused you to lament that at this point (my assumption was the recent Carrier Beta) ?

Or did something else recently changed that you find went wrong?
(otherwise I could only assume you mean original DDF concepts vs. realized content, to which I'd probably agree in many point)

During the kickstarter and in part pre horizon there was more focus on gameplay, HOW to have fun, not how to progress faster. Gradually ED development has become more of a fight resembling a boss and his employees, with FD and the players alternating the roles. Players request went from "could you let another cmdr be on my ship to repair systems" to "do not nerf LTDs".

The latest changes highlighted this (and many others in the last 2 to 4 years), with people clubbing devs to add QoL rather than gameplay features which (I agree, not stellar effort) the devs tried to carve out from carriers.

The UC on carriers is a blatant example, and I am not even against having UC on carriers. But the "gimme it all easier" nervous and exuberant request pushed the devs to just give up on their even minimal effort.

So I tried to suggest this, because having limitations and challenges is something that makes ED's gameplay thrive in my opinion. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...-from-fc-open-beta-to-preserve-access.542531/ and I was met with other players almost shunning me, like if I was asking the boss to make their "ED job" harder.

Granted there might be an even better idea, but the quick fix of taxed UC is a monument to lack of creativity and will make this content get old fast to me and to others I suppose. It is a tense climate where players are vocal and stressed, FD must pay the bills so creativity goes down the drain.

so in the end I miss the spirit of the first years of ED, when people wanted to have fun being a cmdr in space with all the adventures you have to deal with rather than the chores you need to avoid and the youtube video you have to make to show off what you have grinded and cash in views on your channel.

 

[Kaocraft]

Just a thought I wanted to share, ignore me if you do not agree.
I think it is truly unfortunate that the increased popularity of this game has caused the developers to completely steer from the "create placeholder and expand on it to provide depth" mentality to an average fast consumption consumer dictated macburger.

Popularity hasn't increased. Whatever caused the shift in mentality, it had to have been something else.

 

[Deleted member 251664]

Popularity hasn't increased. Whatever caused the shift in mentality, it had to have been something else.

I guess the updates they made for new players had some effect on sales and new players affluence, even if not gigantic. But yes, I should probably blame it on the fact that it is becoming norm in the videogame market that consumers' preference is shifting from "I want a challenge to stimulate my brain" to having one's meal cooked and digested beforehand to feel accomplished and powerful.

And bored after quick consumption and ready to bash developers on sns, to restart the vicious circle of devs exasperated by their projects and ending up churning out flawed concepts to be massacred again in sns and forums.

 

[Deleted member 38366]

During the kickstarter and in part pre horizon there was more focus on gameplay, HOW to have fun, not how to progress faster. Gradually ED development has become more of a fight resembling a boss and his employees, with FD and the players alternating the roles. Players request went from "could you let another cmdr be on my ship to repair systems" to "do not nerf LTDs".

The latest changes highlighted this (and many others in the last 2 to 4 years), with people clubbing devs to add QoL rather than gameplay features which (I agree, not stellar effort) the devs tried to carve out from carriers.

The UC on carriers is a blatant example, and I am not even against having UC on carriers. But the "gimme it all easier" nervous and exuberant request pushed the devs to just give up on their even minimal effort.

So I tried to suggest this, because having limitations and challenges is something that makes ED's gameplay thrive in my opinion. https://forums.frontier.co.uk/threa...-from-fc-open-beta-to-preserve-access.542531/ and I was met with other players almost shunning me, like if I was asking the boss to make their "ED job" harder.

Granted there might be an even better idea, but the quick fix of taxed UC is a monument to lack of creativity and will make this content get old fast to me and to others I suppose. It is a tense climate where players are vocal and stressed, FD must pay the bills so creativity goes down the drain.

so in the end I miss the spirit of the first years of ED, when people wanted to have fun being a cmdr in space with all the adventures you have to deal with rather than the chores you need to avoid and the youtube video you have to make to show off what you have grinded and cash in views on your channel.

I've been around for a similar time and I tend to agree on many points.
We went from 140-450Cr Courier Missions to 100.000+Cr Courier Missions - and from "takes months of Gameplay to earn a stock Anaconda" to "xxxM Cr/hour" comparisons with shifting Income Metas.

IMHO this all boils down to an old problem : MMO Balancing.
With initial figures being off upto almost 2 orders of magnitude (current record), we've more than once witnessed sledge hammer-type corrections - or Metas simply continuing unfixed.

In regard to the Carrier vs. UC vs. Exploration Gameplay or the Carrier Upkeep, it was no different.

However (big however), this time IMHO this wasn't about "gimme it all easier" but rather : "remove crazy, unrealistic and entirely unfeasible limitations".
The original concept easily had the potential to entirely kill the Carrier Update for a frighteningly large part of the target audience.
FDev merely went as far as they had to in order to hit the desired "Okay, that'll work just nicely" Balancing Target Window in that respect.
And with the last Content Update being in Sep 2019 (a very troubled Update already) and Jun 2020 coming up... patience had already run extremely thin with a better part of the Community.
So no more room for f[wait, can't write that here]-ups anymore.

In that light, added accessibility on the upcoming Update clearly was in order to make this one smooth and present Opportunities (fun, gameplay) over anything else.
For that reason, I have no issues with the planned changes (especially on the Exploration Role). Instead, I like it, reads like the way it should have been all along.

And should anything unexpected happen (something running out of bounds in regard to Carriers), FDev can easily still adjust a few numbers over time as they deem fit.